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damianb1

Baffling Substitutions

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1 minute ago, alanharper said:

 

Chelsea 1985, 3-0 up at HT then 4-3 down and drew 4-4

 

Arsenal around 1987, Man Utd on Boxing Day 1992 and Norwich around August/Sep 1993, 3-0 up and drew 3-3 in all of those. All in home games as well. 

The Chelsea/ man utd ones i was actually there... Had forgotten that one against man utd... Did Hughes bang some in?

I would never have got the other two.

 

Thanks.

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13 hours ago, BRADDO said:

We did lose a lot going forward with the changes but we did have a comfortable lead. Bruce probably trying new systems etc. 

And resting players who had worked pretty hard at times.

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I also watched us draw 4-4 in another game, it was when Viv Anderson got a late equaliser I think...

 

Can you get the game?

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4 hours ago, TaxiMark said:

Players took knocks and were knackered tho ...do you leave them on with fresh legs on the bench?

 

No, you take them off, definitely. It was more about the changing of three or four players' positions all at once that I think was the problem as it seemed to create a 'training session' feel.

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11 minutes ago, Bulgaria said:

I also watched us draw 4-4 in another game, it was when Viv Anderson got a late equaliser I think...

 

Can you get the game?

 

We drew 4-4 at Millwall in the cup but I'm sure it was them who got the last minute equaliser. 

 

Can't remember Viv scoring, although the view from that away corner was so bad I could barely even see the goal at our end. 

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Joao was limping towards the end of the 1st half and Aarons started cramping.  No problems with them being replaced.  

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14 hours ago, damianb1 said:

Now don't get me wrong, the first half today was the best we've seen for a long time but 2 of Bruce's subs were completely baffling. Palmer has come on leaps and bounds since Jos left and although I have doubts whether he is good enough for a promotion chasing team he has looked significantly better at right back recently. To take Joao off for Iorfa was bizarre especially when retaining 4-4-2 and Palmer looked totally lost at right midfield. Iorfa appears in a 25 minute spell to have more attacking instinct and quality than Palmer so him right mid would have made more sense. If he'd switched to 3 at the back it would have made a little more sense with Palmer and the outstanding Achraf playing wing backs (although this would have caused an issue for where Aaron's would have played). Then to substitute Fletcher for Joey was equally as puzzling leaving us with no natural forward on the pitch. 

 

It wasn't baffling at all.

 

Joao < Iorfa was half to do with Joao's 'performance' and also Bruce's opportunity to try a new system which he alluded to in his post-match (he also quipped that it didn't work fantastically). 

 

Fletcher < Joey was half to do with Fletcher having run his blood to water but it also enabled us to plug the gap down our left hand side that Matias left us exposed with, I think Reach ended up going out there. Bruce essentially stuck Matias up front to get him away from any defensive duties.

 

I think the fact Bruce saw us being 3-0 up and thought 'let's try something' and then again when he/his team saw an issue with Matias down the left they rectified it quickly shows that we have a proactive and knowledgable coaching team, it bodes well for the future. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, alanharper said:

 

Chelsea 1985, 3-0 up at HT then 4-3 down and drew 4-4

 

Arsenal around 1987, Man Utd on Boxing Day 1992 and Norwich around August/Sep 1993, 3-0 up and drew 3-3 in all of those. All in home games as well. 

It feels like a lot more than that !

 

 

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15 hours ago, Buxtongent said:

Certainly two of the subs could be explained and agreed with. Joao, despite his protestations , had asked earlier for subbing, and had run his race anyway. He was knackered. As for Fletcher, he never really recovered from his nasty fall and appeared to be carrying an injury.

Agree Jioaw asked to be subbed

But had "RUN " his race and was knackered.. Sorry mate. One word. Lazy.

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16 hours ago, Peacenocchio said:

We didn't retain 442 we went to 451. Reach went centre mid to give more numbers. 

On balance I'm gonna stick with Bruce over you sorry.

 

You are correct they pushed Matias up front cos he couldn't be arsed in midfield 

 

I agree somewhat with the op about Palmer i thought he had a steady game at RB and it upset the entire defence imo 

Also the amount of graft Fletch gets through was missed massively when he went off 

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1 hour ago, samowl said:

Agree Jioaw asked to be subbed

But had "RUN " his race and was knackered.. Sorry mate. One word. Lazy.

By 'run his race', it was  meant figuratively, not literally. I have yet to see Joao play and last a full game. He is not a 90 minute man, unfortunately.

 

As for the change in formation, I do not think that was Bruce's intention at all. For a period, we were simply hoofing the ball forward into open spaces, and Bruce was on the touchline, going mad. He was gesturing for us to move forward, and obviously wanted to defend higher.  Several of the defenders were hoofing theball forwrd when there were no forwards .  I got a distinct feeling, particularly when Fletcher went off (he was definitely carrying a knock and was pulled off imo for safety reasons) Bannan and Reach both dropped back , automatically compressing the defence.

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All 3 players that went off needed to go off for various reasons.

He didn’t bring Nuhiu on because he just isn’t mobile enough to play up front on his own.

Our team was tired from the pressing they had been doing for an hour and were starting to sit back.

Bruce decided to shut up shop

 

Made sense to me 

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Bruce said he wanted to see as many players in full matches as possible. 3-0 up you would have expected the subs to show him what they were about, unfortunately Matias let the side down with poor marking

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I also thought Iorfa for Joao a bit questionable, not that if I were managing a Championship side it would ever get any points. I was quite relieved that Bruce talked about experimentation - and that it hadn't quite worked.

 

The other two seemed obviously sensible. 

 

Not the greatest second half but I never felt particularly alarmed that it was going to slip away. 

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6 hours ago, Bulgaria said:

I also watched us draw 4-4 in another game, it was when Viv Anderson got a late equaliser I think...

 

Can you get the game?

Remember us being 1-4 up away at Hull one Boxing Day in the late 70’s with ten to play and then hanging on for 4-4

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11 minutes ago, casbahowl said:

Remember us being 1-4 up away at Hull one Boxing Day in the late 70’s with ten to play and then hanging on for 4-4

 

Didn;t they hit the bar at 4-4?  I think it was early 70's.

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If Bruce wants to trim the squad down significantly in the Summer then he's probably trying to work out on match days who can operate in more than one position to give him options on a reduced size squad. At 3-0 up I guess there was never a better opportunity to do that. He probably learned more from it than we did so let's just take the 3 points and move on.

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34 minutes ago, Sham67 said:

 

Didn;t they hit the bar at 4-4?  I think it was early 70's.

Yep, on reflection about 74.

My first introduction to football violence. Knocking lumps out of each other on 4 sides of the ground 

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11 hours ago, Bulgaria said:

Is this a forum where folk give their views on things?

Apparently not it’s a forum for whinging for the sake of whinging 

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Joao signalled twice to the bench to come off.

Then he had a right strop walking off, chucking his strapping all over the pitch. Then when he went  to sit down he wouldn't high five anyone and just sulked arms folded. 

Bloody lazy  mardy arse.

He was dire yesterday. 

With a shocking attitude. 

 

 

Edited by Bolsterstone Owl
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