Big shake up

[malek]

I think that one of problems with playing Bannan and Hutch in CM is that neither man can run with the ball and create man advantage this way.

 

In my opinion Reach did this quite well and we played some of our best football with him in Bannan's role.

 

Bannan is a good player, but for some time now is failing to influence games as much as he should and be creative force we need him to be.

 

Then again, Bruce wanted to bring him back to Villa, so I hope he knows how to get the best out of him 

 

And yes, we lost our key player in Lee who broke play, offered some great off the ball movement and attacking threat. We are struggling to fill in for him and that is showing.

[Birley Owl 1867]

It's no coincidence that the best we've played this season was without Bannan.

[OwlinOldham]

19 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

There is an issue with all of this, if we use say, Onomah as the box to box man, starting from a position alongside Hutch, will we have enough goals in us. In that 4-2-3-1 system, with Bannan on the left, and Reach on the right, leaving, presumably Forestieri as the man in the middle. We would definitely need the lone frontman to not only be more mobile than Fletcher, but more prolific as well. Think we’d be looking at an Abraham or a Hernandez style lone striker

 

Given the forwards we have, i dont see that we can play 1 up top. Fletcher and Nuihu both have skill on the ball but no pace or goals in either of them as a lone striker. Joao either turns up some games and goes AWOL in others.

 

Dont see how we can persist with the 4231 either if im honest. Weve no pace down the sides meaning when the long ball goes up to Fletcher, theres nobody else around him if he wins it as they are still trundling up the pitch. We might see us revert back to 442 if we keep playing like we have done. All for Bruce and his ideas, but you have to play to the strengths of what you have when your hamstrung by an unbalanced squad.

[gurujuan]

12 minutes ago, OwlinOldham said:

 

Given the forwards we have, i dont see that we can play 1 up top. Fletcher and Nuihu both have skill on the ball but no pace or goals in either of them as a lone striker. Joao either turns up some games and goes AWOL in others.

 

Dont see how we can persist with the 4231 either if im honest. Weve no pace down the sides meaning when the long ball goes up to Fletcher, theres nobody else around him if he wins it as they are still trundling up the pitch. We might see us revert back to 442 if we keep playing like we have done. All for Bruce and his ideas, but you have to play to the strengths of what you have when your hamstrung by an unbalanced squad.

Fletcher and Nuhiu are not mobile enough, can’t run in behind, and don’t score enough goals. Joao is probably the nearest we have to that type of forward, but as we saw on Saturday, he isn’t strong enough for the role. This will be the big challenge this summer for Bruce, how to attract a player like that, probably on loan

[OwlinOldham]

Bruce needs be recruit players that will allow us to set up and play in varying styles and formations. Currently we dont have the right squad balance to even put out an effective 442 let alone anything else. 

 

Hes going to have to wheel and deal a i think. Embargo likely so id say loans and frees with the frees being nothing more than fillers for the squad. I dont expect any quality to come in on a permanent thats for sure. 

 

The other option could be that Bruce has permission to sell players. Joao, Bannan, Reach and Fessi might all be gone to close FFP issues and allow him to build a team of strong frees. Read something a bit back that this is going to be a big window with lots of quality out of contract players being availabe.

[gurujuan]

13 minutes ago, OwlinOldham said:

Bruce needs be recruit players that will allow us to set up and play in varying styles and formations. Currently we dont have the right squad balance to even put out an effective 442 let alone anything else. 

 

Hes going to have to wheel and deal a i think. Embargo likely so id say loans and frees with the frees being nothing more than fillers for the squad. I dont expect any quality to come in on a permanent thats for sure. 

 

The other option could be that Bruce has permission to sell players. Joao, Bannan, Reach and Fessi might all be gone to close FFP issues and allow him to build a team of strong frees. Read something a bit back that this is going to be a big window with lots of quality out of contract players being availabe.

When we’re wanting to change the dynamic, I’m a bit uneasy about signing players as back up. We’ve seen the folly of that these last couple of seasons If we are signing half a dozen players, they all have to be starters as far as I’m concerned. We have key elements of the side that are missing, that has to be addressed. If the existing players start to deliver and keep the new guys out, then so be it. Nobody knows exactly what constraints we’ll be under come the summer, so whether or not we can sign Hector, I don’t know Maybe we can sacrifice one of our better players to enable us to bring him in

Edited February 18, 2019 by gurujuan

[malek]

When we brought in Carlos Chanshiri said that we have list of managers who play similar style of football to his, and if we need to replace him new manager will have players at his disposal who will be able to fit in with how new manager wants to play. Then we replaced Carlos with Jos who played as opposite style of football as possible. Go figure... 

[OwlinOldham]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

When we’re wanting to change the dynamic, I’m a bit uneasy about signing players as back up. We’ve seen the folly of that these last couple of seasons If we are signing half a dozen players, they all have to be starters as far as I’m concerned. We have key elements of the side that are missing, that has to be addressed. If the existing players start to deliver and keep the new guys out, then so be it. Nobody knows exactly what constraints we’ll be under come the summer, so whether or not we can sign Hector, I don’t know Maybe we can sacrifice one of our better players to enable us to bring him in

Fully agree with you, new guys must be starters. Just all depends on whats happening in the summer with the embargo issue. If theres an embargo i think incoming player wages are capped at 10k per week. Not likely to be signing any real quality on that kind of wage. 

 

Either way, interesting times ahead.

[prowl]

25 minutes ago, malek said:

When we brought in Carlos Chanshiri said that we have list of managers who play similar style of football to his, and if we need to replace him new manager will have players at his disposal who will be able to fit in with how new manager wants to play. Then we replaced Carlos with Jos who played as opposite style of football as possible. Go figure... 

The whole idea we were sold was that we would have a Wednesday style, the manager would coach our style and we would have players in each position who fitted our style. We would scout replacements and keep a list of replacements who could slot into each position and would sign them as required to replace squad members. The coach would similarly be replaceable.

 

That plan lasted for about as long as it took to write the press release. It's a shame because the alternative of not having much of a plan and just winging it has been a disaster.

[Rogers]

We rely on Bannan to do everything, and when it doesn’t come off, he’s the villain. 

 

Pretty unfair IMO. When we had Wallace and Lee next to him, we had other runners or creative outlets. 

 

Hutch is mostly static and passes sideways, Reach seems to thrive when he gets balls through the eye of a needle to run onto (from Bannan). The rest...??? Who are the rest and what do they do? FF drops too deep and should provide an outlet up front and pull out wide occasionally to create space. 

 

The middle of the pitch is too congested. 

 

We need a wide midfielder or 2 so we can either play it wide or through the middle. Spread the play...all good Wednesday teams have had good wing play. 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Rogers

[Mike Hunt]

2 hours ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

It's no coincidence that the best we've played this season was without Bannan.

 

Can you quantify that please with facts ?

[OwlinOldham]

Not saying hes the villain, just the fact that without a box to box midfielder next to him and the wingers you have stated, hes not really effective for us anymore. I actually rate the guy massively, i just think playing him in this team right now isnt the answer. Playing your best players just for the sake of them being in your team isnt always the answer. Not that we are blessed with alternatives either.

 

Bannan brings a lot to the table but also takes a lot away from it too. We either need to build around him and his strengths or take him out of the team and try to play differently.

[Mike Hunt]

11 minutes ago, Rogers said:

We rely on Bannan to do everything, and when it doesn’t come off, he’s the villain. 

 

Pretty unfair IMO. When we had Wallace and Lee next to him, we had other runners or creative outlets. 

 

Hutch is mostly static and passes sideways, Reach seems to thrive when he gets balls through the eye of a needle to run onto (from Bannan). The rest...??? Who are the rest and what do they do? FF drops too deep and should provide an outlet up front and pull out wide occasionally to create space. 

 

The middle of the pitch is too congested. 

 

We need a wide midfielder or 2 so we can either play it wide or through the middle. Spread the play...all good Wednesday teams have had good wing play. 

 

 

 

We need someone as good as BB in midfield with him because its too easy for the opposition to target him as our only playmaker . 

Edited February 18, 2019 by hugeowl
iam silly

[Birley Owl 1867]

9 hours ago, hugeowl said:

 

Can you quantify that please with facts ?

Re-watch West Brom home match.

[Philb125]

10 hours ago, Rogers said:

We rely on Bannan to do everything, and when it doesn’t come off, he’s the villain. 

 

Pretty unfair IMO. When we had Wallace and Lee next to him, we had other runners or creative outlets. 

 

Hutch is mostly static and passes sideways, Reach seems to thrive when he gets balls through the eye of a needle to run onto (from Bannan). The rest...??? Who are the rest and what do they do? FF drops too deep and should provide an outlet up front and pull out wide occasionally to create space. 

 

The middle of the pitch is too congested. 

 

We need a wide midfielder or 2 so we can either play it wide or through the middle. Spread the play...all good Wednesday teams have had good wing play. 

 

 

 

Whilst I agree with this, all too often he’s filling the void left by Bannan who’s dropped back to the CB’s to collect the ball. I’d originally thought this was due to our CB’s not having the ability to try a forward pass, however in the majority of cases Bannan takes it from them, then returns it to them whilst standing 5 yards away for them to attempt a long range pass with one fewer options as Bannan is now out of the picture. 

 

Surely our coaches see that Bannan running back to collect the ball over and over delivers very little in terms of upside and makes our entire offence one player short, the one player that is championed as our creative spark is all too often a spectator stood between the two CB’s watching them attempt spectacular passes to Fletch, Reach, Fessi or Boyd. 

[Mike Hunt]

17 minutes ago, Philb125 said:

 

Whilst I agree with this, all too often he’s filling the void left by Bannan who’s dropped back to the CB’s to collect the ball. I’d originally thought this was due to our CB’s not having the ability to try a forward pass, however in the majority of cases Bannan takes it from them, then returns it to them whilst standing 5 yards away for them to attempt a long range pass with one fewer options as Bannan is now out of the picture. 

 

Surely our coaches see that Bannan running back to collect the ball over and over delivers very little in terms of upside and makes our entire offence one player short, the one player that is championed as our creative spark is all too often a spectator stood between the two CB’s watching them attempt spectacular passes to Fletch, Reach, Fessi or Boyd. 

 

They moved him for the first half a couple of games ago to left side midfield and we looked shocking with Pelupessey and Hutch central 

[Mike Hunt]

1 hour ago, Birley Owl 1867 said:

Re-watch West Brom home match.

 

Thats an opinion not a fact .

[Rogers]

1 hour ago, Philb125 said:

 

Whilst I agree with this, all too often he’s filling the void left by Bannan who’s dropped back to the CB’s to collect the ball. I’d originally thought this was due to our CB’s not having the ability to try a forward pass, however in the majority of cases Bannan takes it from them, then returns it to them whilst standing 5 yards away for them to attempt a long range pass with one fewer options as Bannan is now out of the picture. 

 

Surely our coaches see that Bannan running back to collect the ball over and over delivers very little in terms of upside and makes our entire offence one player short, the one player that is championed as our creative spark is all too often a spectator stood between the two CB’s watching them attempt spectacular passes to Fletch, Reach, Fessi or Boyd. 

I agree, Hutch should drop back (if anyone) or let Hector pass it. 

 

Bannan should be in the centre spot or beyond and FF in front of him. 

 

8 players on the edge of our own boxes doesn’t work 

[Dutch McLovin]

On ‎17‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 02:31, cowl said:

I'd get rid of Bannan before Hutchinson.

 

I'd long thought of Hutchinson being the main problem to our midfield's dynamism, but it doesn't really seem to matter who Bannan plays with in the centre, or even how things are set up, his will to get on the ball is stronger than his will to be effective in the final third, and as such he'll pretty much always come deep and sit deep so that he can receive and then give the ball without much hassle.

 

I'd love to see Bannan in a more forward role, but even when we seemingly set up like that, as the game draws on Bannan just ends up sitting deep.

 

We need in a midfield partner to Hutchinson a player that doesn't feel the responsibility of dictating play all the time. It's a shame we've not been able to get a consistent tune out of Onomah thus far, whether that be for injury or form. We'll rail at his work rate at times, but at least that's a player whose will is to get into the final third, and that's a will that he feels far more strongly than the will just to be on the ball, as is the case with Bannan.

 

Bannan could potentially fetch us in some money too in a way that I doubt that Hutchinson ever could (due solely to injury history).

This.

 

Hutchinson is key, there aren't many better in the DM role in the league. Bannan is the issue, he needs to be more attacking in a three but he doesn't get many goals or assists. This is why his best form for us came on the left. Whilst Hutch and Lee may be lightweight its the best CM partnership we have had for a long time.

[gurujuan]

10 minutes ago, Dutch McLovin said:

This.

 

Hutchinson is key, there aren't many better in the DM role in the league. Bannan is the issue, he needs to be more attacking in a three but he doesn't get many goals or assists. This is why his best form for us came on the left. Whilst Hutch and Lee may be lightweight its the best CM partnership we have had for a long time.

Yes, and we’ve tried to replicate the Lee role with Reach A better option, if fit, would be Onomah