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We aren’t a physical side, a pacey side or all that skillful - and we need a mixture of that. 

 

We did 5 mins of decent football unopposed then got drawn into a battle with a bunch of battlers. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Kopparberg said:

We aren’t a physical side, a pacey side or all that skillful - and we need a mixture of that. 

 

We did 5 mins of decent football unopposed then got drawn into a battle with a bunch of battlers. 

 

 

Six targeted signings could remedy that, we don’t need major upheaval

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33 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Six targeted signings could remedy that, we don’t need major upheaval

 

I tend to disagree mate. This squad of players has been together for three years and we have gone backwards.  For me a rebuild is needed asap.the performances have in general been poor all season.this squad of players have had three failed attempts to get us promoted and we have been in the bottom half of the table all season this time . Time for a clear out .

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12 hours ago, Rogerwyldesmullet said:

If the players don’t care, why were they so chuffed at the end?

 

The lack of legs/ energy/ youth - call it what you will means we couldn’t do a gegenpress for 5 minutes never mind 90. To boot, the promble of pace and midfield muscle has been with us since the first play off final.

 

I think Steve Bruce knows this and will refresh the squad to that end. Wheel deal and loans - just watch. 

 

Meanwhile the imbalance of the team will continue to frustrate not just fans but the players in it.

 

Spot on, we have never got the midfield right. Even that first play-off season, we were often dominated but had enough decent players to pull results off.

 

I’d keep Hutch but I wouldn’t be bothered if the rest of the midfield left including Bannan. 

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48 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Six targeted signings could remedy that, we don’t need major upheaval

 

In my book, 6 targeted signings in a starting line up of 11 qualifies as major upheaval. And how do we afford them? Unless Bruce has a list of out of contract gems from the lower leagues.

 

I'm afraid I see no easy answers. It's going to be a case of tinkering for a couple of seasons until we've cleared out the dead wood and unwound the FFP issue.

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13 minutes ago, S36 OWL said:

 

I tend to disagree mate. This squad of players has been together for three years and we have gone backwards.  For me a rebuild is needed asap.the performances have in general been poor all season.this squad of players have had three failed attempts to get us promoted and we have been in the bottom half of the table all season this time . Time for a clear out .

When you have a successful squad they can become stale so you need to introduce new blood. We had a successful squad 2 years ago and that is when we needed to freshen things up. We didn't do it and now we have a squad that is very comfortable and set in their ways. The only way to shake things up is to do a root and branch overhaul, split up any dressing room cliques that have formed and effectively start again.

 

If that means we need to sell the 'crown jewels' to provide funds to do so then that might be the way to go.  I wouldn't be happy to see some top players go but if it's got to be done let's do it and move forwards.

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Long post alert!

 

I think We are still suffering with the fact that we dont have the right players/squad balance to play in any real set way. Have said it before but other teams have players that suit the way they want to play. We have players who when accomadated sometimes dictate the way we have to play.

 

We have no actual genuine wingers at the club so we cant even play a wide formation or try a hi tempo counter attacking style. Crosses are also lacking massively. (Not counting Aarons in or out yet as not seen enough of him to say owt). We also really dont have any attacking presence in central midfield. Hutch is supposed to be deeper of the mids as the DM enforcer, but Bannan seemingly doesnt want to play in the oppo half either. When we do have the ball in attack, theres never anybody there centrally to support the attack.

 

Our forwards are all good at something, its just not at scoring goals. Fletcher and Nuhiu can hold a ball up but goal conversion is poor. Joao is the epitomy of inconsistent at times and Fessi really isnt an out and out forward. Even if the above 4 were all red hot at scoring, the midfield issues above still mean they are gonna be starved of anything but half chances.

 

We have some very very good players, but a more than few of these are players that you build a team around as opposed to ones you slot into your team. We dont have that luxury though as we have spent up. Bannan is a prime example of this. Great player who i really do rate with having bags of ability, yet doesnt really fit into any team without major adjustments needing to be made. If we play a DM like Hutch, we need a box to box player like Lee alongside him or we lose penetration through the middle of the pitch. Bannan doesnt get high enough or provide enough support in final 3rd attacks. Instead he tries to ping it about 40 yards from deep or try and cross into the box when our target mans at the side of him having just come deep to win the ball.

 

Sheridan and Palmer worked cos one was a box to box workhorse and the other was dictating play. We dont have that since Lee fell to pieces on us. Shake up is needed all through the squad but its really unlikely to happen when were under embargo. I know it aint champ manager but if we could move on 2 of Fessi, Reach or Bannan id do it, with a personal preference of the latter 2 which would make way for a real box to box midfielder to come in. Id also like to see a wingback or 2 and some even basic wingers so we can play a variety of ways as opposed to just the long ball way we are forced into at the moment.

Edited by OwlinOldham
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1 hour ago, prowl said:

When you have a successful squad they can become stale so you need to introduce new blood. We had a successful squad 2 years ago and that is when we needed to freshen things up. We didn't do it and now we have a squad that is very comfortable and set in their ways. The only way to shake things up is to do a root and branch overhaul, split up any dressing room cliques that have formed and effectively start again.

 

If that means we need to sell the 'crown jewels' to provide funds to do so then that might be the way to go.  I wouldn't be happy to see some top players go but if it's got to be done let's do it and move forwards.

 

Bang on mate 

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1 hour ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

In my book, 6 targeted signings in a starting line up of 11 qualifies as major upheaval. And how do we afford them? Unless Bruce has a list of out of contract gems from the lower leagues.

 

I'm afraid I see no easy answers. It's going to be a case of tinkering for a couple of seasons until we've cleared out the dead wood and unwound the FFP issue.

And quite right, but to be fair, that’s what we should have been doing since Wembley Too many players have been signed as some sort of back up, and in many cases, they were actually older than the players who had the shirt Quantity over quality I’m afraid. 

Were we to lose just all those out of contract, six is about all we could bring in to refresh the squad. There would be limited mileage in signing players that were no better than what we have, so the likelihood is that they would be starters

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I've been thinking about the current squad and the need for a clear out, and I've had a penny drop moment.

 

We have a lot of players out of contract and many players who will have doubts over their future at the club.  Now, imagine you are one of those players who has no real connection to the club.  Why would you bust a gut now when you know you will get another club in the summer?  You could run yourself into the ground and injure yourself, putting your next contract at risk.

 

I know that in an ideal world, all players will give 100% in every game.  In the real world I would think it's very likely players coming to the end of the contract who may have already have tentative discussions with other clubs might just go through the motions.

 

Maybe the players are just not trying because they know their futures are elsewhere.  Not even saying this is necessarily a conscious thing, but it could be subconscious.  How many of you have coasted in the last days in a job?  I know I have. 

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11 hours ago, cowl said:

I'd get rid of Bannan before Hutchinson.

 

I'd long thought of Hutchinson being the main problem to our midfield's dynamism, but it doesn't really seem to matter who Bannan plays with in the centre, or even how things are set up, his will to get on the ball is stronger than his will to be effective in the final third, and as such he'll pretty much always come deep and sit deep so that he can receive and then give the ball without much hassle.

 

I'd love to see Bannan in a more forward role, but even when we seemingly set up like that, as the game draws on Bannan just ends up sitting deep.

 

We need in a midfield partner to Hutchinson a player that doesn't feel the responsibility of dictating play all the time. It's a shame we've not been able to get a consistent tune out of Onomah thus far, whether that be for injury or form. We'll rail at his work rate at times, but at least that's a player whose will is to get into the final third, and that's a will that he feels far more strongly than the will just to be on the ball, as is the case with Bannan.

 

Bannan could potentially fetch us in some money too in a way that I doubt that Hutchinson ever could (due solely to injury history).

I reckon one of the problems is we have no other creative force in the side so everything goes through Bannan. The other players don’t have the required vision and they know no other fecker does either so they just give it to Bannan every time & let him get on with it. That’s why we’re so one dimensional & painfully slow. The addition of wingers, and ones with pace too, could help sort this out by giving us better options. What we’ve lacked is both the midfield running of Lee & the Hunt/Wallace partnership on the right which used to be our ‘go to’ tactic when attacking. Now we’ve lost those options the other players have abdicated responsibility & left it up to Bannan. He just simply can’t do it on his own.

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It was a real dose of reality yesterday.

 

Thats close to our best team and they were woeful.

 

At the heart of it for me is the conviction that you can’t build a promotion winning team around Bannan. 

 

Hes a wonderful player to look at when you have the ball all the time. But offers absolutely nothing defensively.

 

Its time to change it.

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To me it doesnt exactly matter what we do its more just about having a consistant plan and getting players that suit the system, this is how teams like united have had success. Given potential financial restraints its hard to see a complete overall of the squad. Bruce seems like a 442 man so realistically as unpopular as it would be its probably some of the players who dictate our play but dont quite fit the system like bannan, ff and joao who we'd be better getting rid of particularly if we can get some money in. Just play one of the two lumps with one of the two contracted scorers would give us half a chance something like

 

                                   westwood

 

        Iorfa         lees                 thorniley      lazaar/new

 

   new winger      hutch   new/diame type     reach

 

                     nuhiu/fletch            winall/rhodes

 

It wouldnt be the way Id do it but a team like that under bruce could trouble the playoffs

 

The other more modern way which would suit more of our existing talented players and if we ever get everyone fit we could experiment with this season would be something like

 

                                  westwood

 

Iorfa           lees                          hector       lazaar

                                  

                                  hutch

         onomah                              bannan

 

 

          reach                                  aarons

                                   ff

                   

Not sure bruce would be the man to go for something like that though

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Genuine question - do you reckon FF could play the central striker role effectively in a 433? Reasons for and against?

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8 minutes ago, trask43 said:

 

 

The other more modern way which would suit more of our existing talented players and if we ever get everyone fit we could experiment with this season would be something like

 

                                  westwood

 

Iorfa           lees                          hector       lazaar

                                  

                                  hutch

         onomah                              bannan

 

 

          reach                                  aarons

                                   ff

                   

I was thinking exactly this - maybe with Onamah alongside Hutch and Bannan more advances for certain scenarios

Edited by Yellowbelly
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8 minutes ago, Yellowbelly said:

Genuine question - do you reckon FF could play the central striker role effectively in a 433? Reasons for and against?

 Im not entirely convinced but would like to see it given a try, he's far better with his back to goal at keeping possesion than joao, it would force us to keep the ball on the deck as well.Think theyd be games where it bamboozles the opposition defences as he drops deep and the opposition dont know who to pick up.

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I am a little lost here ? I see any team as being very similar to a railway train, they have two main components and purpose. An Engine which drive the train and the passengers who enjoy the ride. Argument is minimal regarding who are the Engine drivers and who are the Passengers; Yet, when the train is sluggish there are always those who would wish to remove the key component parts of the Engine and bring in more passengers. Thus making the train even more sluggish.

 

Jos tried this Westwood, Loovens and Hutchinson Drivers all replaced with Passengers. So there are those on here suggesting a repeat performance with Hutchinson and Bannan being replaced. There may come a time when this is the order of the day but do we need to replace them with passengers like Van Aken and Pelupessy ?  

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Over complicated metaphors are the root cause of our problems.

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1 hour ago, NYCOWL said:

Over complicated metaphors are the root cause of our problems.

and to think I always had you down as a reasonably intelligent New Yorker, you know New Jersey type ! lol

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