Out of Contracts

[stevie snerklebox]

On 20/02/2019 at 12:11, SwintOwl said:

                   Dawson

 

Iorfa       Lees    Thornily     Penney

 

Preston Peluspessy Bannan Aarons

 

               Bokurov   Winall 

 

Release all with contacts up, sell Nando Reach and Joao. Get Aaron's on season loan avoid relegation and then go for it season after when Bruce can spend money again. 

 

It's a masterplan of a strategy. Thank me in 2yrs Mr. C.

 

 

 

That team gets us relegated. Where the hell are the goals coming from in that team?!!

[hirstys_achilles]

Westwood will be up with the highest wage earners. Would he accept a contract for less or similar money ?? He at the latter stage of his career so would be looking for the best offers. I can't see us trying to match other clubs offers if they wanted him. We have 2 other good keepers on the books. If that was to change by us getting on offer for Wildsmith or Dawson that is good value then Westwood may get a 1 year extension max offered. I think this is very unlikely but possible.

 

All the others wont be offered contracts with us but will find other clubs of division 1 standard or lower. Hooper and Lee are the only ones who if fit would be kept. They are just too injury prone and age is making this more obvious. Lee is my favourite player. I would love to see him play again. I would offer him  and Hooper a pay as you play deal. From their point of view it is probably not what they would be looking for. Hooper will probably get other credible offers from other clubs. Lee I cant see any club signing him after nearly 2 seasons out and an injury renown for being difficult near impossible to fix. Retirement has been mentioned which would be a massive shame. Unless they suddenly heal and play till the end of season (highly unlikely) we have unfortunately seen the last of Lee and Hooper in a wednesday strip.

 

I hope Bruce brings in some youth with speed and quality with masses of potential. We need a squad of players who are available 99 to 100% of the time unlike now when majority of the high earners have played less than a handful of games in 2 seasons (and longer) spending most of the time on treatment tables. Our squad is currently far to big with to many players unavailable for selection. This means we are going to see more players leaving than being signed.

[hirstys_achilles]

8 hours ago, stevie snerklebox said:

That team gets us relegated. Where the hell are the goals coming from in that team?!!

Borukov. The current team is hardly free scoring. I think the ops point is more for a consolidation season for ffp reasons then go for it with the youth being more experienced for the season after. I think that was Jos plan and it didn't work out to well for him. Fact is no swfc fans are prepared for another season of mediocrity even when it's obvious with ffp this is our better option. Clearly DC can no longer gamble on promotion by disregarding ffp rules. We have wasted a season with Jos who had the right idea but could not implement the strategy properly or to fans liking due to strange team selections etc. We are going to have to accept that Bruce will have to gamble on youth from lower leagues that show lots of potential. That can't be any worse than watching some of the tripe we have seen the last 2 seasons in some (most) games. We are going to have to be patient. Also trust Bruce and DC have a plan that wont instantly work and will take time to come to fruition. 

[hirstys_achilles]

9 hours ago, shandypants said:

I’m surprised that some are saying to release Westwood. I have been watching Wednesday since I was a child in the 70s and I honestly believe that Westwood is one of the best keepers that’s played for us - if not the best. 

That may be true. But he not as good now as he was and is more injury prone now. I liked Pressman but I would not put him in the net now. If you been watching wednesday since 70's then you will remember lots of keepers as they get older lose form. Westwood is not as agile as he was and is susceptible to low shots on his right hand side.

[james o connor]

1 hour ago, hirstys_achilles said:

That may be true. But he not as good now as he was and is more injury prone now. I liked Pressman but I would not put him in the net now. If you been watching wednesday since 70's then you will remember lots of keepers as they get older lose form. Westwood is not as agile as he was and is susceptible to low shots on his right hand side.

This is very true . Many are crediting the tightening of the defence down to his reintroduction which isn’t true . First 3 seasons he was here , he was brilliant , he’s still alright but as you say , not the player he ones was 

[stevie snerklebox]

2 hours ago, hirstys_achilles said:

Borukov. The current team is hardly free scoring. I think the ops point is more for a consolidation season for ffp reasons then go for it with the youth being more experienced for the season after. I think that was Jos plan and it didn't work out to well for him. Fact is no swfc fans are prepared for another season of mediocrity even when it's obvious with ffp this is our better option. Clearly DC can no longer gamble on promotion by disregarding ffp rules. We have wasted a season with Jos who had the right idea but could not implement the strategy properly or to fans liking due to strange team selections etc. We are going to have to accept that Bruce will have to gamble on youth from lower leagues that show lots of potential. That can't be any worse than watching some of the tripe we have seen the last 2 seasons in some (most) games. We are going to have to be patient. Also trust Bruce and DC have a plan that wont instantly work and will take time to come to fruition. 

As I said, that team gets us relegated.

[shandypants]

2 hours ago, hirstys_achilles said:

That may be true. But he not as good now as he was and is more injury prone now. I liked Pressman but I would not put him in the net now. If you been watching wednesday since 70's then you will remember lots of keepers as they get older lose form. Westwood is not as agile as he was and is susceptible to low shots on his right hand side.

Westwood has hardly put a foot wrong since his return (in fact I’d say he hasn’t put a foot wrong at all).  There has been no indication that he has lost his agility significantly enough for him not to be first choice. He has an organising and calming influence over our defence that Dawson and Wildsmith haven’t yet demonstrated - I think it is no coincidence that we have stopped shipping an average of two goals per game since Westwood’s return to the team; although he may not be the sole contributor to that achievement, he is the major contributor in my opinion. 

 

Sorry, but you’re comment about playing Pressman now and, in effect, referring to him as a current peer to Westwood is flawed and somewhat ridiculous. Pressman is 51, retired 10 years ago and played his last competitive game 12 years ago - with the greatest respect to him, Pressman is probably at Meadowhall League level now. Westwood is still a regular professional footballer that is being picked weekly for Sheffield Wednesday’s first team. 

 

In terms of Westwood being susceptible to shots low to his right hand side, the vast majority of keepers have a weakness. Our two young excellent keepers are great shot stoppers but both struggle with the high ball into the box - Jordan Pickford (England’s currrnt first choice) does also; Joe Hart is prone to rushing out and committing himself too early; de Gea gets done at his near post far too often. You could find a real ***** in every goalkeeper’s armour. 

 

Lets hazard a guess that Westwood is on twice the average player salary at SWFC. I would honestly lose an extra outfield player to cover Westwood’s wages, I think he’s that valuable to the team. 

 

In an earlier post, you have advocated giving Hooper and Lee contracts (albeit pay as you play deals) if they can prove their fitness yet you advocate releasing Westwood who is fully fit and making a real difference. Lee (who is also my favourite player) and Hooper are in the same bracket of quality as Westwood and I would advocate giving them 1 year deals if they could prove their fitness before the end of the season, however, if it came down to a straight choice between a fully fit Westwood and two excellent players that have been out for 15 months and have yet to prove their worth to the team then there is no hard decision to make. 

 

Sorry mate but you’re argument appears somewhat flawed. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by shandypants

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

2 hours ago, hirstys_achilles said:

Borukov.

 

That's a brave call. What have you seen in him that would suggest he's capable of stepping up and leading the line as a Championship starter next season?

[wmb]

I think it's time to get rid of all of the out of contract players. Very rarely do you get the opportunity to press the reset button in football. I can't think of many times where what will be a relatively new manager has had the chance to rebuild and reshape the squad pretty much from scratch. Obviously FFP will dictate to some extent the quality of player we can attract but with Bruce's contacts, a few decent free transfers and 4 or 5 decent prem loans we could see a rejuvenated squad next season.

[gurujuan]

2 hours ago, wmb said:

I think it's time to get rid of all of the out of contract players. Very rarely do you get the opportunity to press the reset button in football. I can't think of many times where what will be a relatively new manager has had the chance to rebuild and reshape the squad pretty much from scratch. Obviously FFP will dictate to some extent the quality of player we can attract but with Bruce's contacts, a few decent free transfers and 4 or 5 decent prem loans we could see a rejuvenated squad next season.

It’s a little bit, throwing the baby out with the bath water. At least a couple are worth keeping. Generally though, you are right, it does present us with an opportunity to get rid of some high wage earners Unfortunately it doesn’t give us scope to reshape the squad. Even if we did release all nine, we’d still have squad of 22, which is about the size of squad Bruce is hoping to operate. 

I’ve seen comments on here, that the team will be unrecognisable from the one we have now. The squad will look terribly unbalanced, and definitely new faces would be needed, particularly in midfield. Looking at the numbers, that would necessitate contracted players going out, before any could come in. For arguments sake, if we needed to bring 7-8 in, the same number would need to go out. That’s a tall order, and a hell of a lot of upheaval

[wmb]

15 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

It’s a little bit, throwing the baby out with the bath water. At least a couple are worth keeping. Generally though, you are right, it does present us with an opportunity to get rid of some high wage earners Unfortunately it doesn’t give us scope to reshape the squad. Even if we did release all nine, we’d still have squad of 22, which is about the size of squad Bruce is hoping to operate. 

I’ve seen comments on here, that the team will be unrecognisable from the one we have now. The squad will look terribly unbalanced, and definitely new faces would be needed, particularly in midfield. Looking at the numbers, that would necessitate contracted players going out, before any could come in. For arguments sake, if we needed to bring 7-8 in, the same number would need to go out. That’s a tall order, and a hell of a lot of upheaval

Apart from Westwood I don't think any of them are worth keeping. Westwoods wage could present a problem though. All have had adequate time to prove their worth and the majority have failed consistently. The squad is terribly imbalanced right now anyway. Like it or not as a club/fanbase we are going to have to go through this upheaval for the next season or two. You can't reshape and rebuild without clearing the decks. 

[fred mciver]

Don't forget , these may have been Doyen deals with possible player options to extend (maybe Westwood's contract , for example).

 

I thought we were getting rid of Atty last Summer - what's his cost per first team game or goals scored?

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

1 hour ago, fred mciver said:

Don't forget , these may have been Doyen deals with possible player options to extend (maybe Westwood's contract , for example).

 

I thought we were getting rid of Atty last Summer - what's his cost per first team game or goals scored?

 

He earned himself a new contract with his form at the end of last season.

 

Sadly, it appears to have been a purple patch as he's nowhere near that level this season.

[pazowl55]

I got a feeling when he come in Bruce knew a lot of these out of contract players we going regardless due to our situation. He just had to decide which ones. 

 

Think this explains why we have not seen Matias, Abdi, Jones, Pudil ect.. 

[sexpistol]

Offer Westwood and Palmer deals, the rest can go. 

Im a bit surprised people are thinking Palmer should go. He has been a very solid and reliable squad member.

[We'llNeverBeMastered]

On 16/02/2019 at 18:07, We'llNeverBeMastered said:

Honestly wouldn't keep a single player from that list, not even Westwood. 

Snowflakes negging me lol.

[hirstys_achilles]

6 hours ago, shandypants said:

Westwood has hardly put a foot wrong since his return (in fact I’d say he hasn’t put a foot wrong at all).  There has been no indication that he has lost his agility significantly enough for him not to be first choice. He has an organising and calming influence over our defence that Dawson and Wildsmith haven’t yet demonstrated - I think it is no coincidence that we have stopped shipping an average of two goals per game since Westwood’s return to the team; although he may not be the sole contributor to that achievement, he is the major contributor in my opinion. 

 

Sorry, but you’re comment about playing Pressman now and, in effect, referring to him as a current peer to Westwood is flawed and somewhat ridiculous. Pressman is 51, retired 10 years ago and played his last competitive game 12 years ago - with the greatest respect to him, Pressman is probably at Meadowhall League level now. Westwood is still a regular professional footballer that is being picked weekly for Sheffield Wednesday’s first team. 

 

In terms of Westwood being susceptible to shots low to his right hand side, the vast majority of keepers have a weakness. Our two young excellent keepers are great shot stoppers but both struggle with the high ball into the box - Jordan Pickford (England’s currrnt first choice) does also; Joe Hart is prone to rushing out and committing himself too early; de Gea gets done at his near post far too often. You could find a real ***** in every goalkeeper’s armour. 

 

Lets hazard a guess that Westwood is on twice the average player salary at SWFC. I would honestly lose an extra outfield player to cover Westwood’s wages, I think he’s that valuable to the team. 

 

In an earlier post, you have advocated giving Hooper and Lee contracts (albeit pay as you play deals) if they can prove their fitness yet you advocate releasing Westwood who is fully fit and making a real difference. Lee (who is also my favourite player) and Hooper are in the same bracket of quality as Westwood and I would advocate giving them 1 year deals if they could prove their fitness before the end of the season, however, if it came down to a straight choice between a fully fit Westwood and two excellent players that have been out for 15 months and have yet to prove their worth to the team then there is no hard decision to make. 

 

Sorry mate but you’re argument appears somewhat flawed. 

i agree with your first point. As i think you will agree if Dawson was playing behind the defence now it has some organisation since JL has gone the team would not be shipping two goals a game now. The Pressman comment is ridiculous but is an exaggerated to prove a point. KW may have been the best keeper at swfc. But now I dont think he is. I know a bit about football and when a keeper gets a bit older and less agile the place that it is first noticeable is getting down low to the opposite hand side. To compensate for this his narrows the angle more to his right leaving the far left more exposed. If you watch his positioning you will see the difference from where he stands from shots from leftside to shots from right side. 

Fact is we need to cut costs. We have 2 good keepers. Westwood will probably want more money than we want to spend in the ffp situation.

I dont think its a choice between KW and KL and MH as outfield is totally different. So I dont think you have a valid point there. If we had 2 KL's and 2 MH's then maybe you could but we havent so there no point at all really.

Lastly yes my argument is flawed as its an opinion. Just my opinion. Right or wrong its an opinion. The facts are you arguing against an opinion i havent made. I respect your opinion. I dont agree. If its arguments you really want try facebook

[hirstys_achilles]

5 hours ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said:

 

That's a brave call. What have you seen in him that would suggest he's capable of stepping up and leading the line as a Championship starter next season?

NO it was tongue in cheek. But his shooting cant be worse than Fletcher

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

43 minutes ago, hirstys_achilles said:

NO it was tongue in cheek. But his shooting cant be worse than Fletcher

 

And here I was thinking that you were going to give us a detailed breakdown of our next striking prodigy, piquing our interest and raising our hopes beyond any reasonable levels as we await him sweeping all before him and firing us to promotion next season.

 

Ah well, it was nice while it lasted.

 

[hirstys_achilles]

7 hours ago, james o connor said:

This is very true . Many are crediting the tightening of the defence down to his reintroduction which isn’t true . First 3 seasons he was here , he was brilliant , he’s still alright but as you say , not the player he ones was 

you are a brave man james. An opinion such us ours on the God like Westwood is blasphemy. Be prepared for the worshippers trying to point out why you are delusional. But seriously Westwood is a very touchy subject for some. It is now making me think its a bit weird and I possibly missing out on something other than football that he does for them. Bruce has a massive job to get literally blood out of a stone for fans becoming more and more impatient for success. Unfortunately some players are not going to be kept purely because ffp rules are what they are. Not every fan will agree or be happy with some decisions. There is going to be pain before the gain !!! We need to put our faith in Bruce till the end of his tenure. The good times wont come instantly. Unfortunately I think Bruce letting KW go will cause a lot of fans to be unhappy. Thats just one decision. It is becoming clear why Katriene left, Has Bruce taken on Mission Impossible 5. - the mission if you choose to accept it is to sell worthless injury prone and aged players and buy better young athletic players that will get promotion without spending any extra cash in the transfer market and reducing players wages at the same time. I think the KW situation is one of the easier decisions to make in our present situ. The sensible fans realise he not as good as he was. I hope I wrong but I think the managers job at swfc is impossible. I really dont think what we want is acheviable with ffp and our ageing squad its not going to be easy to get us back up in a few seasons. I would be happy all things considered watching some entertaining football. If Bruce can do it may be he could inherit westwoods mantra. Sorry rambling again !!!