SallyCinnamon Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, gurujuan said: At last, a light bulb moment Clearly we have plenty of decent options, more than enough to be seeing off these bottom dwellers It’s about the squad. As a group of players they’ve suffered two play off heartbreaks, a squad torn apart by injury, two managers who lost the plot, a real expectation to perform every week. Its a mentally weak squad and it’s stagnated. The squad desperately needed freshening up but FFP hasn’t allowed us to perform the surgery we desperately needed after Huddersfield beat us. We have too many players (a number who have let us down), too many on good contracts, constant injury woes and a lack of competition for places in key areas. They’re just drifting and a big clearout is needed. We’ve had the same group for 4 years pretty much. They couldn’t get us up 4 years ago, so god knows why people think they will now. Edited February 16, 2019 by SallyCinnamon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorturner Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, mike312 said: Sorry but I'm not having this "players aren't good enough rubbish." Westwood is Irelands number 1 and hugely experienced. Hector is a Chelsea player and has plenty of experience, Lees is a very experienced defender at this level, Thorniley looks an excellent prospect, Palmer has played enough games at this level, Fox has improved, Bannan is one of the best passers in the league and has international and premier league experience, Reach is again a very good player at this level, Forestieri is one of the best players in this league on his day, Boyd, Fletcher have loads of experience at premier league level, Fletcher also international. The players are better than they are playing atm for some reason I don't know why. Its not like all these players are 36 or something, some should be in their prime. We have been outplayed today by a team containing Mattock and Wood (wood didn't play of course but you get the point), that is the level of player we were up against today and we were second best for most of it, its baffling. I wanted Bruce and I'm sure he'll sort it out but I wish he could instill some passion, urgency and identity to the way we play because atm I'm not sure what the plan is. The inability to get the ball in midfield and move ahead with it, interpassing and keeping possession, linked with the lack of wide players which helps you do it, was something missing in the play off final and never injected since. Edited February 16, 2019 by victorturner wrong tense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Eightace said: We aren't good enough. There are no magic tactics when you lack players with the right attitude. For all reach's,joao's, bannan's and fessi's tekkers they lack believe and heart. The ones with a bit of heart lack the ability or consistency needed. The only way Bruce will succeed is by replacing at least 5 or 6 players otherwise we are a hit and miss mid table side. The last few years have proven that. So which five or six should we replace, the ones who lack heart, or the ones that aren’t good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casbahowl Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 54 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Still unbeaten under Bruce though He has had a soft start, and I can’t say I’ve been too impressed with his tactics so far FFS man! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorturner Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, gurujuan said: If the squad is as bad as some suggest, then perhaps Jos wasn’t doing as bad a job as we thought. Of course I don’t believe that, nor do I think the squad is that bad. With a few returning players, and three of his own additions, the new manager does have the tools to be doing better. We are not going to see the wholesale changes some are demanding, so it’s important that we see a bit of tactical nous Jos did well to get them to sixth before that international break. He understood the weaknesses of the players and the qualities which were missing.Too cautious? No not really, not this season. That run of results after that break finished him off as the press and the fans got nasty with him but he knew the inability to score goals, once Nuhui's resurgence faded, was a problem . We know the problems were caused by Carlos not correcting the problem areas, by playing players after injury too soon and some fool acquiring a lot of average players on top wages, some clearly past their best. Edited February 16, 2019 by victorturner word omitted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, casbahowl said: FFS man! Serious question, are you impressed by them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victorturner Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, gurujuan said: So which five or six should we replace, the ones who lack heart, or the ones that aren’t good enough Better midfield players would make the biggest difference, one of whom could hopefully give the strikers the ball on the ground in a promising area for scoring. Too much hitting longish bouncing balls.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfield Owl Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 26 minutes ago, mike312 said: Sorry but I'm not having this "players aren't good enough rubbish." Westwood is Irelands number 1 and hugely experienced. Hector is a Chelsea player and has plenty of experience, Lees is a very experienced defender at this level, Thorniley looks an excellent prospect, Palmer has played enough games at this level, Fox has improved, Bannan is one of the best passers in the league and has international and premier league experience, Reach is again a very good player at this level, Forestieri is one of the best players in this league on his day, Boyd, Fletcher have loads of experience at premier league level, Fletcher also international. When you put it like that, you’d think it’s a miracle we’re not at least 10 points clear at the top of the league 31 minutes ago, mike312 said: The players are better than they are playing atm for some reason I don't know why. Its not like all these players are 36 or something, some should be in their prime. We have been outplayed today by a team containing Mattock and Wood (wood didn't play of course but you get the point), that is the level of player we were up against today and we were second best for most of it, its baffling. I wanted Bruce and I'm sure he'll sort it out but I wish he could instill some passion, urgency and identity to the way we play because atm I'm not sure what the plan is. Although I do completely agree with this part. It upgrades your post from ‘ramblings of a madman’ status to ‘makes a fair point’ status. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, victorturner said: Better midfield players would make the biggest difference, one of whom could hopefully give the strikers the ball on the ground in a promising area for scoring. Too much hitting longish bouncing balls.. Yes, midfield is the key area for me also However, we also require a more mobile player to lead the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannofan Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 So, after the massive demands of the fans to have Westwood, Hutchinson and Boyd back in the team...how much better are we? How much better is the attitude? How much more leadership and commitment is there? Could it be that Jos was on to something when he wanted to ditch the old pro's for the young guns? Attitude, togetherness and commitment are everything in this league. If it was about players reputations and price tags then Villa would be walking it. I've not seen a 'team' effort for 2 seasons now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 hour ago, SallyCinnamon said: how far we’ve fallen in the space of 2 years. It’s actually quite remarkable. That's the thing Sal. I don't think it is. Even in 'Year One' there were some gaps papered over. Namely a complete lack of pace, power, physicality. Something which we'd all seen in that first season but which we turned a blind eye to until the play off final where it raised it's head barking like an abused dog that's snapped. 3 years down the line the same problems still haven't been address. I don't think we have fallen. I think we are where we were always going to end up once the paper over those cracks dried out. I'm surprised people are surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casbahowl Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, gurujuan said: Serious question, are you impressed by them? I would suggest it’s a little too early to judge ..... serious answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bannofan said: So, after the massive demands of the fans to have Westwood, Hutchinson and Boyd back in the team...how much better are we? How much better is the attitude? How much more leadership and commitment is there? Could it be that Jos was on to something when he wanted to ditch the old pro's for the young guns? Attitude, togetherness and commitment are everything in this league. If it was about players reputations and price tags then Villa would be walking it. I've not seen a 'team' effort for 2 seasons now. Yes indeed, Carlos was able to inspire, as Wilder is doing now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Just now, casbahowl said: I would suggest it’s a little too early to judge ..... serious answer! But it wasn’t a judgement, it was a progress report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Owl 2 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bannofan said: So, after the massive demands of the fans to have Westwood, Hutchinson and Boyd back in the team...how much better are we? How much better is the attitude? How much more leadership and commitment is there? Could it be that Jos was on to something when he wanted to ditch the old pro's for the young guns? Attitude, togetherness and commitment are everything in this league. If it was about players reputations and price tags then Villa would be walking it. I've not seen a 'team' effort for 2 seasons now. Yep not like we have kept a lot more clean sheets is it? Hutchinson and Westwood have shown their quality. Its obvious if you watch them. Hutchs tackle leading to Ipswich winner v us blowing that lead with kids against West Brom Boyd has been poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernOwl Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 43 minutes ago, mike312 said: Sorry but I'm not having this "players aren't good enough rubbish." Westwood is Irelands number 1 and hugely experienced. Hector is a Chelsea player and has plenty of experience, Lees is a very experienced defender at this level, Thorniley looks an excellent prospect, Palmer has played enough games at this level, Fox has improved, Bannan is one of the best passers in the league and has international and premier league experience, Reach is again a very good player at this level, Forestieri is one of the best players in this league on his day, Boyd, Fletcher have loads of experience at premier league level, Fletcher also international. The players are better than they are playing atm for some reason I don't know why. Its not like all these players are 36 or something, some should be in their prime. We have been outplayed today by a team containing Mattock and Wood (wood didn't play of course but you get the point), that is the level of player we were up against today and we were second best for most of it, its baffling. I wanted Bruce and I'm sure he'll sort it out but I wish he could instill some passion, urgency and identity to the way we play because atm I'm not sure what the plan is. Compare our squad to others in the league and we simply don't come close. Yes we have the odd decent player but the squad as a whole is one dimensional with weaknesses all over the pitch. Should we be doing better? Probably yes in terms of performances but our league position is about right. We are simply a mid table side. Most of the players you outline above wouldn't get into the sides of the better teams in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: That's the thing Sal. I don't think it is. Even in 'Year One' there were some gaps papered over. Namely a complete lack of pace, power, physicality. Something which we'd all seen in that first season but which we turned a blind eye to until the play off final where it raised it's head barking like an abused dog that's snapped. 3 years down the line the same problems still haven't been address. I don't think we have fallen. I think we are where we were always going to end up once the paper over those cracks dried out. I'm surprised people are surprised. Thats true. What is remarkable is how we never built on what were very promising foundations. We had a great opportunity but we signed all the wrong players and ignored the glaringly obvious. So in that sense I would say it is remarkable. The mismanagement is remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, NorthernOwl said: Compare our squad to others in the league and we simply don't come close. Yes we have the odd decent player but the squad as a whole is one dimensional with weaknesses all over the pitch. Should we be doing better? Probably yes in terms of performances but our league position is about right. We are simply a mid table side. Most of the players you outline above wouldn't get into the sides of the better teams in this league. Not sure about that, I’d say Westwood, Hector, Bannan, Reach and Forestieri would walk into most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Just now, SallyCinnamon said: Thats true. What is remarkable is how we never built on what were very promising foundations. We had a great opportunity but we signed all the wrong players and ignored the glaringly obvious. So in that sense I would say it is remarkable. The mismanagement is remarkable. Indeed. Spaffed. To be fair to the club many fans got wrapped up in the whole business of signing players they'd heard of over ones that might fit the team. The clamouring for Rhodes for example from all but a handful of supporters was testament to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SallyCinnamon Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: Indeed. Spaffed. To be fair to the club many fans got wrapped up in the whole business of signing players they'd heard of over ones that might fit the team. The clamouring for Rhodes for example from all but a handful of supporters was testament to that. I thought Rhodes was a huge waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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