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3 hours ago, Sonny said:

Mike Thornton's summary is excellent

 

The EFL rules themselves are actually quite short but take a bit of getting your head around.

But read in conjunction with Mike Thornton's summary they should make sense. 

See: 

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

 

The section relevant to us is 

PART 2 – CHAMPIONSHIP PROFITABILITY AND SUSTAINABILITY RULES
Rules 1-8

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27 minutes ago, OxonOwl said:

 

Villa were never near FFP/P&S limits. They had actual cash problems in that the owner couldn't get it out of China. Their solution was finding someone with money. Not the same situation at all.

 

 

Yes, outside investment. Chansiri has two solutions; outside investment or the selling of players. He's using neither. Insists he can't do it all on his own, then continues to try and do exactly that. He's stubborn as arseholes. Agnew has just said the plan is to keep this group together - STILL! ..madness. 

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2 minutes ago, wilyfox said:

 

Yes, outside investment. Chansiri has two solutions; outside investment or the selling of players. He's using neither. Insists he can't do it all on his own, then continues to try and do exactly that. He's stubborn as arseholes. Agnew has just said the plan is to keep this group together - STILL! ..madness. 

 

No, outside investment does not get around P&S rules. It is not an option for DC.

 

Outside investment solved Villa's problems because their problem was not P&S.

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49 minutes ago, petrie18 said:

So am I right in thinking the following; 

 

We're currently working within the 3 accounts of season's 15/16 (£10m loss) + 16/17 (£20m loss) + 17/18 estimated 

17/18's estimated loss put us at breaching p&s, hence why we were under an embargo over summer.

 

Come march the 17/18 accounts will be published. 

From May we'll be working with the 3 accounts of 16/17(£20m loss) + 17/18(loss to be announced) +18/19(this season's estimated loss)

 

So you'd imagine we'll lose around £19m 17/18 season, and the funds hes trying to raise this window would break us even for this season's estimate and leave us boarder line with breaking p&s?

 

Is this a logical take on it or am I swinging well wide of the mark?

I think thats a fair assessment yes, numbers seen there or thereaboits. Luckily we are a non selling club

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Looks like Barnsley have found a way round ffp

 

92CC32D4-02D1-4945-9172-36DCDEDD943D.png

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2 minutes ago, OxonOwl said:

 

No, outside investment does not get around P&S rules. It is not an option for DC.

 

Outside investment solved Villa's problems because their problem was not P&S.

 

My understanding is change of/or part ownership would change the situation? 

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2 minutes ago, wilyfox said:

 

My understanding is change of/or part ownership would change the situation? 

 

Would it though, as it doesn't change the previous years accounts, all very confusing and in no way fare. It maybe time for fans to protest to the EFL.

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4 minutes ago, wilyfox said:

 

My understanding is change of/or part ownership would change the situation? 

 

No. Only a certain amount of losses can be covered by money from owners. It doesn't matter if you change owners or add or subtract owners, the same amount of money is allowable to offset losses.

 

...and as toppOwl says, it has no effect on previous years accounts.

 

 

 

Edited by OxonOwl

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15 minutes ago, OxonOwl said:

 

No. Only a certain amount of losses can be covered by money from owners. It doesn't matter if you change owners or add or subtract owners, the same amount of money is allowable to offset losses.

 

...and as toppOwl says, it has no effect on previous years accounts.

 

 

 

 

Then Chansiri has crippled the club by keeping hold of FF, Reach, and signing Rhodes. Different outcomes on those three might have saved us. 

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2 hours ago, alanharper said:

 

And that's not even taking into account the fact that a club that gets relegated already has a £40m+ head start on clubs that aren't receiving parachute payments...

 

So in excess of £60m a season advantage in P&S overall in real terms then.....plus they generally sell a few players when relegated for massive amounts.

Absolutely ridiculous circumstances

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3 hours ago, rob1601 said:

FFP can easily be solved. Owners put in as much as they like on an equity basis only. No loans to the club.

 

FFP is partly about creating the closed shop of the Premier League. It's why FFP is different in the Premier League, League 1 & League 2. At least L1 & L2 is related to turnover.

As much as i dislike the current ffp rules it certainly wasnt designed to create the premier league closed shop as you suggest.

The PL and EFL are 2 separate bodies who create their own rules. Why then would the EFL implement rules dreamt up by the PL which would only serve to punish their own members?

Also, how many relegated teams get back up to the PL whilst receiving their parachute payments? I dont have the stats but would suggest its well below 50% and a fair few of them get relegated to L1.

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3 hours ago, petrie18 said:

So am I right in thinking the following; 

 

We're currently working within the 3 accounts of season's 15/16 (£10m loss) + 16/17 (£20m loss) + 17/18 estimated 

17/18's estimated loss put us at breaching p&s, hence why we were under an embargo over summer.

 

Come march the 17/18 accounts will be published. 

From May we'll be working with the 3 accounts of 16/17(£20m loss) + 17/18(loss to be announced) +18/19(this season's estimated loss)

 

So you'd imagine we'll lose around £19m 17/18 season, and the funds hes trying to raise this window would break us even for this season's estimate and leave us boarder line with breaking p&s?

 

Is this a logical take on it or am I swinging well wide of the mark?

As I understand it.

 

The 3 year rolling is based on the last 2 season and the predicted outcome for the season we are in.

 

So this season its based on the £21m losses from 2016/17 season, whatever the losses were last year and the losses expected for this season that why I think teams are placed under a soft embargo until actual figures are known come the end of the season.

 

Based on what DC has said that we broke last season by an 8 figure sum I am assuming this was £10m not £90m then last season losses will be around the £18-20m mark we have make around 39m in saving and additional income this season reducing the losses on 3 year rolling to about £50m ish so we probably need to make a profit with the 2018/19 season accounts to avoid FFP issues so bring in or make another £10m  before the end of the season this figure will have also increase with the termination of Jos and the new management team.

 

It just looks like more and more Reach and Bannan will be gone before February to have any chance of achieving this

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3 hours ago, HOOTIE AND THE poo TU said:

If they wanted to introduce financial fair play, they should have stopped parachute payments at the same time

or spread the money out to the rest of the teams in the Championship to make it more of a level playing field.  

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2 minutes ago, room0035 said:

As I understand it.

 

The 3 year rolling is based on the last 2 season and the predicted outcome for the season we are in.

 

So this season its based on the £21m losses from 2016/17 season, whatever the losses were last year and the losses expected for this season that why I think teams are placed under a soft embargo until actual figures are known come the end of the season.

 

Based on what DC has said that we broke last season by an 8 figure sum I am assuming this was £10m not £90m then last season losses will be around the £18-20m mark we have make around 39m in saving and additional income this season reducing the losses on 3 year rolling to about £50m ish so we probably need to make a profit with the 2018/19 season accounts to avoid FFP issues so bring in or make another £10m  before the end of the season this figure will have also increase with the termination of Jos and the new management team.

 

It just looks like more and more Reach and Bannan will be gone before February to have any chance of achieving this

 

Agree with all that, although the losses quoted were in regards to HMRC so may be slightly less with regards to P&S depending on what we can possibly discount re. stadium, academy etc.

I don't think it will be a lot less though.

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4 hours ago, WhiteOwl91 said:

What an absolutely flawed system. 

£35m loss allowed in a season if you were in the Prem within the last 3 years, yet if teams only been in the Champ can only lose £13m? 

 

Certainly puts the ‘Fair’ in FFP doesn’t it.

perhaps it stands for 'FAIRly little chance of competing on an even basis'?

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1 hour ago, Brommers said:

As much as i dislike the current ffp rules it certainly wasnt designed to create the premier league closed shop as you suggest.

The PL and EFL are 2 separate bodies who create their own rules. Why then would the EFL implement rules dreamt up by the PL which would only serve to punish their own members?

Also, how many relegated teams get back up to the PL whilst receiving their parachute payments? I dont have the stats but would suggest its well below 50% and a fair few of them get relegated to L1.

Explain the changes to Checkatrade trophy and the treat of removal of solidarity payments if EFL didn't agree

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20 minutes ago, rob1601 said:

Explain the changes to Checkatrade trophy and the treat of removal of solidarity payments if EFL didn't agree

Ive no idea, you win.

Still doesnt change the fact that most relegated  clubs dont gain promotion back to the PL so their dastardly plan is failing.

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