FFP: Break or Be Broken

[Rev Owl]

@Quist thanks for this.

Not quoting to comment cause it's a long article. 

I think if the clubs could put their heads together they could take EFL to court.  Perhaps Birmingham will take a lead? 

At the moment though a points deduction for Brum is an advantage to everyone else. 

[Quist]

2 minutes ago, Rev Owl said:

@Quist thanks for this.

Not quoting to comment cause it's a long article. 

I think if the clubs could put their heads together they could take EFL to court.  Perhaps Birmingham will take a lead? 

At the moment though a points deduction for Brum is an advantage to everyone else. 

Agreed and hopefully other Chairmen will see beyond points deduction for another club and realise could be them next. A temporary ban has an impact, we were prevented getting who we wanted and required in summer and had to make do with players left.

[Mrmason69]

Leicester, Bournemouth qpr man City twice etc all ingored the fp thing and paid the fine. Our owner has no honour. He treats people like dirt. Where's the honour in that. So do as many clubs have already done and ignore the fp thing. 

We can't avoid falling foul if it anyway as the three year cycle ends this season. Our wage bill is higher than most Premier league clubs. No one wants our players apart from reach because they are overpaid, workshy and hopeless(relatively) 

We can't get sanctions until the end of the season. There's no actual concrete evidence we've ever been sanctioned. To sanction before the three year period ends is like sentencing someone to life in jail without a trial. 

Look at Leicester. They paid the fine and won the Premier league. Qpr only got into massive financial trouble because they gave warnock massive amounts of money when they got promoted. He hasn't a clue how to spend money properly. Bournemouth are rock solid. 

So pay the fine. 

I must say why oh why didn't we sell forestieri for 14m. He's worthless now. 

This is a mess caused by the owner. Now he's got to get us out of it by paying the fine. If he's daft enough to give dobbin two years at 30 k a week then he's got money to burn.

Pay up 

[Hookowl]

14 minutes ago, Mrmason69 said:

Leicester, Bournemouth qpr man City twice etc all ingored the fp thing and paid the fine. Our owner has no honour. He treats people like dirt. Where's the honour in that. So do as many clubs have already done and ignore the fp thing. 

We can't avoid falling foul if it anyway as the three year cycle ends this season. Our wage bill is higher than most Premier league clubs. No one wants our players apart from reach because they are overpaid, workshy and hopeless(relatively) 

We can't get sanctions until the end of the season. There's no actual concrete evidence we've ever been sanctioned. To sanction before the three year period ends is like sentencing someone to life in jail without a trial. 

Look at Leicester. They paid the fine and won the Premier league. Qpr only got into massive financial trouble because they gave warnock massive amounts of money when they got promoted. He hasn't a clue how to spend money properly. Bournemouth are rock solid. 

So pay the fine. 

I must say why oh why didn't we sell forestieri for 14m. He's worthless now. 

This is a mess caused by the owner. Now he's got to get us out of it by paying the fine. If he's daft enough to give dobbin two years at 30 k a week then he's got money to burn.

Pay up 

 

Think you'll find that's the reason the EFL changed the penalties to include points deductions and/or relegation.

[Buddy Repperton]

2 hours ago, striker said:

Yep, they should be ringfenced and subject to the same scrutiny, i.e remove from P&S calculations, other than pre agreed costs, to avoid non football job losses for those who don't earn tens of thousands per week.

 

Or, increase to a realistic limit, i.e £75m over 3 years. 

 

The reason most clubs are falling foul of the current limit is the inflated costs caused by the relegated clubs with parachute money, which is sanctioned and seemingly encouraged by the EFL. 

 

The EFL simply cant turn a blind eye to some, while restricting most of the league from being competitive. Seems they just want the 'glamour' ex premier league clubs to have a fixture list of cannon fodder at the behest of sky.

 

If DC really has money to burn, fizz the EFL, test their resolve on P&S, go and sign who we need and tie the EFL up in legal red tape for years while they try to impose any sort of sanction. 

 

Someone needs to take a stand against the hipocracy of the EFL and challenge their arbitrary restraint on being competitive in a league they already deliberately make uncompetitive for all bar a handful of teams.

 

Totally agree, but again, who will be in charge of recruitment?

Can we trust them to learn from the colossal mistakes that have put us in this position?

Plus, we all think we know why Bruce took this job, but we don't really!

[striker]

1 hour ago, Hookowl said:

 

Think you'll find that's the reason the EFL changed the penalties to include points deductions and/or relegation.

Let's see what happens with Birmingham, but I can't envisage any outcome where a points deduction or similar would have any material outcome on promotion or relegation.

 

In such circumstances the club's appeal process would tie up the EFL for so long it would be impossible to plan for next season with the teams league position in limbo pending legal process .

 

Wouldn't surprise me if Birmingham's hearing is postponed until they fall away from the top 6 and 'agree'  a token points deduction to save face for the EFL and mean realistically  they finish a few places lower in mid table than without the deduction.

[striker]

1 minute ago, Buddy Repperton said:

Totally agree, but again, who will be in charge of recruitment?

Can we trust them to learn from the colossal mistakes that have put us in this position?

Plus, we all think we know why Bruce took this job, but we don't really!

Think Bruce will have pretty much total control of recruitment, otherwise can't see he would have even considered us.

[Buddy Repperton]

If we'd done what Birmingham did, the EFL would throw the book at us.

[Hookowl]

7 minutes ago, striker said:

Let's see what happens with Birmingham, but I can't envisage any outcome where a points deduction or similar would have any material outcome on promotion or relegation.

 

In such circumstances the club's appeal process would tie up the EFL for so long it would be impossible to plan for next season with the teams league position in limbo pending legal process .

 

Wouldn't surprise me if Birmingham's hearing is postponed until they fall away from the top 6 and 'agree'  a token points deduction to save face for the EFL and mean realistically  they finish a few places lower in mid table than without the deduction.

 

You could be right but that makes a farce of the new P&S penalty rules.....................................although to me they are a farce anyway. 

[Avon barksdale]

Just need to sell some players , surely DC knows a few agents that can help him. There was plenty of them flying about when we had cash to spend. 

[Mid Wicket]

4 hours ago, striker said:

 

 

Someone needs to take a stand against the hipocracy of the EFL and challenge their arbitrary restraint on being competitive in a league they already deliberately make uncompetitive for all bar a handful of teams.

 

Bang on

Its not just in the championship this is happening though,it happening in other leagues as well UEFA are complicit in this, look at Italy it used to be a competitive league but Juventus win it every year now. Prem clubs get away with because of all the TV money. FFP stifles competition

[Rhubarb n Custard]

1 hour ago, Jakes Grandad said:

Bang on

Its not just in the championship this is happening though,it happening in other leagues as well UEFA are complicit in this, look at Italy it used to be a competitive league but Juventus win it every year now. Prem clubs get away with because of all the TV money. FFP stifles competition

The question then is why ?

 

As for ourselves let’s just flog off £15m of our best talent and organically rebuild.

There are loads of examples of other clubs building competitive sides on a fraction of the budget we’ve burnt.

Surprised SB is coming but pleased as his connections will help. Only concern is that he’s used to operating with funds, this presents a whole new challenge.

[S36 OWL]

5 hours ago, striker said:

Think Bruce will have pretty much total control of recruitment, otherwise can't see he would have even considered us.

 

That would mean DC getting shut of Paxo and his cronies 

[Guest The Horse]

As the EFL allows parachute payments to be made to the relegated prem teams and by doing so deems it financially fair, why can't the relegated Champ clubs get parachute payments in League One?

[Mid Wicket]

18 hours ago, Rhubarb n Custard said:

The question then is why ?

 

As for ourselves let’s just flog off £15m of our best talent and organically rebuild.

There are loads of examples of other clubs building competitive sides on a fraction of the budget we’ve burnt.

Surprised SB is coming but pleased as his connections will help. Only concern is that he’s used to operating with funds, this presents a whole new challenge.

I agree we should flog talent and rebuild, maybe Bruce will. But DC has seemed reluctant to sell anyone up to now.

[Hookowl]

14 hours ago, The Horse said:

As the EFL allows parachute payments to be made to the relegated prem teams and by doing so deems it financially fair, why can't the relegated Champ clubs get parachute payments in League One?

 

Think Sunderland may do. 

[poite]

I still can't get my head around the whole idea that spending loads of money and having parachute payments will give you a better chance of promotion.

 

Am I looking at the wrong league table when i see Leeds at the top and the grunters in 2nd? Leeds have hardly spent a fortune and the grunters have spent about £4.50. 

 

It's almost like having a top class football manager in charge is more important than how much you spend. Can't be that though surely...

 

Definately the money that matters with the 3 relegated teams from the premier league last season sit in 4th, 13th and 15th....

[toppOwl]

On 17/01/2019 at 12:03, Box_Man said:

They have tightened the rules so they can appoint any penalty they see fit, I think Brum are about to get a hefty fine but a MASSIVE points deduction which will act as a deterrent to other clubs us included

 

I really don't think the EFL have the bottle to do this, they've threatened every club thats broke FFP and got promoted and ended up giving them a slap on the wrist fine at the end of it.

[Sonny]

On 17/01/2019 at 15:01, Mrmason69 said:

Leicester, Bournemouth qpr man City twice etc all ingored the fp thing and paid the fine. Our owner has no honour. He treats people like dirt. Where's the honour in that. So do as many clubs have already done and ignore the fp thing. 

We can't avoid falling foul if it anyway as the three year cycle ends this season. Our wage bill is higher than most Premier league clubs. No one wants our players apart from reach because they are overpaid, workshy and hopeless(relatively) 

We can't get sanctions until the end of the season. There's no actual concrete evidence we've ever been sanctioned. To sanction before the three year period ends is like sentencing someone to life in jail without a trial. 

Look at Leicester. They paid the fine and won the Premier league. Qpr only got into massive financial trouble because they gave warnock massive amounts of money when they got promoted. He hasn't a clue how to spend money properly. Bournemouth are rock solid. 

So pay the fine. 

I must say why oh why didn't we sell forestieri for 14m. He's worthless now. 

This is a mess caused by the owner. Now he's got to get us out of it by paying the fine. If he's daft enough to give dobbin two years at 30 k a week then he's got money to burn.

Pay up 

 

Where do you even start with this. Easier to pick out the bits he’s got right than list the ones that are wrong.

 

He’s dishonourable because he won’t pay a fine when we haven’t even been fined, yet apparently we can’t actually have been punished yet at all because we’re not at the end of the three year cycle despite the fact that it’s a rolling three year cycle.

 

Pay up what? Not a full shilling.

[dowls]

We have between 8-9 million coming off the wage bill in the summer - but it’s all about the account for the previous season. 

 

A player sale in January of say reach for 10million will only put at best 2/3 million into accounts unless we take a hit on the fee and get all cash up front.. highly unlikely.. 

 

If we did get 3 million for Rhodes loan then that will be in the accounts for this March, easing the pressure. 

 

Trouble led is we have to replace the lost players with some new ones... loans seem the only way forward unless we get extra investment.