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gillyno9

Ground being sold in February?

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Selling Hillsborough would be yet another step (a huge one) on the slippery slope that we already find ourselves. It never ends well and the cost benefit ratio (see Leeds example above - thanks Sonny) is appalling. Has to be avoided at all costs.

 

Stadium naming rights are a different matter. I have no objection with those being sold for a suitable fee (lets face it the fans will continue to call it either Hillsborough or Owlerton) and that could generate useful additional funds. Also in a strange way if for example it became the John West Tuna Arena (or any other such name) it might help us (or at least the public) begin to end the association with the disaster.

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12 hours ago, LittleG said:

Can you only start talking crap once you've reached 500 posts?

 

Yes, I'm expert, so watch it

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The stadium is good, maybe a little dated by today’s standards but still good. It looks miles better still than that plastic subbuteo stadium in S2 Deedarland which will always look a dump regardless of what they try and do to it. Who wants to play in a soulless concrete cowpat stadium anyway? Only word I heard of flogging the ground was when Dave Allen was alledged to have put in a surrounding area evaluation request and that was years ago

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14 hours ago, gillyno9 said:

Firstly I’m not itk. I read forum daily but rarely post. 

 

Has anyone else the rumour of the ground being sold to one of DC’s relatives in February? Figure said to be 30 million. The idea being we pay nominal “rent” in return. This being a legitimate way to pump new money into the club.

 

 

(Presuming February sale before new tax year in April)

 

Maybe that’s the assurance been made to Steve Bruce before excepting the job regarding budget for next season. 

 

Like I said just something I’ve heard. 

 

 

I’m 100% sure Steve Bruce isn’t “excepting” the job! :duntmatter:

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I pity the Chairman who thinks he could get away with selling our ground and our heritage.

 

If anyone thinks me and the loyal others have been mentalists regarding challenging DC's fizz ups so far, then selling our stadium would open the gates of hell. Trust me.

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4 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

I pity the Chairman who thinks he could get away with selling our ground and our heritage.

 

If anyone thinks me and the loyal others have been mentalists regarding challenging DC's fizz ups so far, then selling our stadium would open the gates of hell. Trust me.

What would you do?

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3 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

I pity the Chairman who thinks he could get away with selling our ground and our heritage.

 

If anyone thinks me and the loyal others have been mentalists regarding challenging DC's fizz ups so far, then selling our stadium would open the gates of hell. Trust me.

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10 hours ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

Land and buildings were valued at circa £24m in the accounts.

 

I am not sure how this is split between the ground and the training ground.

 

And this is not my specialist area as I am not an accountant.

 

However, from a P & L point of view I think it would only count as a profit for the difference between the sale price and the value on the balance sheet. I.e if it is valued at £12m in the accounts and sold for £30m, £18m would be profit.

 

Im not sure how the future rent would be discounted from that profit.

 

Nor how FFP would treat it.

 

@mkowl May be able to shed more light on it...

 

I have just found the actual regulations on the EFL website - says a lot that you have to dig around for them

 

Just the 53 pages to peruse which I will do at some stage - real work and deadlines unfortunately taking precedence

 

You are basically correct in that a "profit" would be shown in the profit and loss account for the difference between the two. You would also indirectly show the difference between the valuation and historic cost but that is technical stuff.

 

The £18m question is whether that counts for  S & P purposes - which the 53 pages might give an answer for !

 

The question is what is market value ? You would assess on an in use as a football stadium - not what it is worth as a building plot. So how much would an hypothetical team pay to play in a 38k capacity stadium, multiply by a rental yield factor of say 5%. If you call that £1.5m per season lo and behold you would get a £30m valuation.

 

I presume rent would be a cost for S & P purposes

 

Bottom line I am less interested in S & P but more what it means. Be the first time in our history I guess that the ownership of the infrastructure and the football operations are separate. Not a comfortable position and one we would live to regret - short term gain long term pain. But from DC's point of view it is one way to repay the loans due to him - however one he should tread carefully about. Insolvency laws would take a very dim view of asset stripping by an owner / shareholder if within a few years the company could not pay its bills 

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Thank god there's some actual football tomorrow...these money men and their monkey business gets you down.

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23 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

What would you do?

He would come on owlstalk and s***him off about how much money he spunked up wall

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1000% No! Id rather blood kids and have a few seasons of limbo than roll the dice gambling the future of the club. 

 

Surely its an absolute nonsense.

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28 minutes ago, mkowl said:

 

I have just found the actual regulations on the EFL website - says a lot that you have to dig around for them

 

Just the 53 pages to peruse which I will do at some stage - real work and deadlines unfortunately taking precedence

 

You are basically correct in that a "profit" would be shown in the profit and loss account for the difference between the two. You would also indirectly show the difference between the valuation and historic cost but that is technical stuff.

 

The £18m question is whether that counts for  S & P purposes - which the 53 pages might give an answer for !

 

The question is what is market value ? You would assess on an in use as a football stadium - not what it is worth as a building plot. So how much would an hypothetical team pay to play in a 38k capacity stadium, multiply by a rental yield factor of say 5%. If you call that £1.5m per season lo and behold you would get a £30m valuation.

 

I presume rent would be a cost for S & P purposes

 

Bottom line I am less interested in S & P but more what it means. Be the first time in our history I guess that the ownership of the infrastructure and the football operations are separate. Not a comfortable position and one we would live to regret - short term gain long term pain. But from DC's point of view it is one way to repay the loans due to him - however one he should tread carefully about. Insolvency laws would take a very dim view of asset stripping by an owner / shareholder if within a few years the company could not pay its bills 

Thanks for that and good luck with the 53 page read. So is there a difference between selling B.B. ff and reach, or the ground? Personally i would prefer the ground sale if it’s leased back on a long term lease at a peppercorn rent with a buy back option at the end. Reading the above seems to suggest that would put an end to the ffp promble we face and may give SB the funds he needs. 

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54 minutes ago, Mr Farrell said:

I pity the Chairman who thinks he could get away with selling our ground and our heritage.

 

If anyone thinks me and the loyal others have been mentalists regarding challenging DC's fizz ups so far, then selling our stadium would open the gates of hell. Trust me.

 

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5 minutes ago, Plonk said:

Thanks for that and good luck with the 53 page read. So is there a difference between selling B.B. ff and reach, or the ground? Personally i would prefer the ground sale if it’s leased back on a long term lease at a peppercorn rent with a buy back option at the end. Reading the above seems to suggest that would put an end to the ffp promble we face and may give SB the funds he needs. 

 

Hillsborough finds itself in the centre of nothingness, unlike bluntsville that sits in the centre of what will become Chinatown, along with hotels, apartments, wealthy foreign student accommodation etc, etc. As I see it, Hillsborough is worth very little as a building plot, the only way that anyone could make a decent profit out of it would be to charge say, an annual 10% premium on the purchase price and let it to the Owls on a fully repairing lease, highly unlikely IMHO.

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9 hours ago, sherlyegg said:

Think they got £8M from the council...in effect an emergency loan, they were in dire trub may have gone out of existence without. The council of course were almost certainly going to sell it them back assuming leeds got out of financial trouble, eventually they did and bought it back. If they hadn't, it would have been a council run car park and leeds utd would have merged Bradford (a bit like when they nicked bradford airport and added leeds)

 

Ours is a completely different situation...we nicked doncaster airport :biggrin:

 

Leeds sold their stadium in 2004. 

 

They went into administration three years later and were relegated to League One. They probably would have been relegated anyway IIRC. 

 

Selling their stadium had zero future benefit. 

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12 minutes ago, optimisticowl said:

 

Hillsborough finds itself in the centre of nothingness, unlike bluntsville that sits in the centre of what will become Chinatown, along with hotels, apartments, wealthy foreign student accommodation etc, etc. As I see it, Hillsborough is worth very little as a building plot, the only way that anyone could make a decent profit out of it would be to charge say, an annual 10% premium on the purchase price and let it to the Owls on a fully repairing lease, highly unlikely IMHO.

 

Might be easier to take out a loan secured on the stadium, with interest only payments for five years or until promotion to PL; whichever comes first.  At which point capital repayment begins. 

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1 minute ago, i used to be sc_owl said:

 

Might be easier to take out a loan secured on the stadium, with interest only payments for five years or until promotion to PL; whichever comes first.  At which point capital repayment begins. 

A loan wouldn’t help p&s. chansiri already has cash, he just can’t spend it. 

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Just now, kingsidney said:

A loan wouldn’t help p&s. chansiri already has cash, he just can’t spend it. 

 

Loans being disqualified as income for p&s makes sense. I was thinking more about logistics of raising cash from the stadium. 

 

Would money raised from the stadium via sale even count?

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The last accounts stated that the land and buildings were revalued back in 2014 to £23.75m (of which land is £1.5m). The valuation was a ‘replacement cost’ valuation and was undertaken by a qualified surveyor. It’s a while since I did my accountancy exams but I believe that this revaluation is held in reserve (Wednesday have a £6.4m revaluation reserve) until such a point at which the land and buildings are sold and the gain realised. I have no idea what this does for FFP but logic dictates that it would have to be of benefit. 

 

Selling what few assets we have - not sure how that sits with me. It would have to be done in a way that gives the club some protection (i.e. buy back rights).

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Lets bw honest here, FFP was supposed to help clubs yet all I can see is negatives and people looking for ways to get round it, its completely flawed and the sooner its scrapped the better!

Wednesday are actually in a hole because of it!

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