Westwood - 2 Games 2 Clean Sheets

[StudentOwl]

5 minutes ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

 

Im staggered that you can even argue the point to be honest...his hands hadn't fallen off during his exile had they?? 

 

he’s still only 34, which for a keeper is nothing these days. He his still in his prime.

 

as I have said on here many times, a keeper isn’t just a keeper. He’s part of the back four and in the last 2 games you can see the confidence returning to the back four and it comes from the keepers organisation etc... beyond that there is no doubting Westwood’s ability nor the fact he’s the best keeper at the club!!! 

Of course not... but it was clear he was a shadow of himself at the beginning of last season. You don't need appendages to fall off for that to happen. Lack of confidence, concentration... tightness in legs or abdomen or arms... any number of reasons both physical or mental as to why. 

 

The only thing staggering is that anyone can say for certainty that a player they haven't seen play for a year will perform at the same level as they did before their exile. You can hope, but you can't know. You can't say it was never in doubt. Only someone extremely blasé would say that. 

 

As it is, two clean sheets in two games, coupled with almost a 50% reduction in shots faced in these last two games vs Dawson's last two games, show empirically that the defense has tightened up and/or we're faced two particularly poor attacking teams. And yes, before you splutter incredulously at that, we have. Only Bolton (8) have scored fewer goals at home than Middlesbrough so far this season (11 in 12 games). Only Ipswich and Rotherham (8) have scored fewer goals away from home than Preston so far this season (9 in 12 games). I think it's very safe to say that statistically speaking, while it's great to have our best goalkeeper playing between the sticks again, it is far too early to be saying that his presence alone is what has contributed to these clean sheets. It will be interesting to see how both he and we perform against teams that can actually score on average more than a goal-per-game at the venue we play them.

 

We've faced two of the weakest offenses we'll likely come across all season in consecutive games... the West Brom game is the antithesis of that (top scorers at home in the division) and will be a far more accurate measure of just how much difference Westwood is making.

 

Keeping two clean sheets is fantastic and a vast improvement over what we're used to... keeping two clean sheets against two of the worst attacks in the division and claiming that it's Westwood's organisation alone is ridiculously premature. 

[theowlsman]

3 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Of course not... but it was clear he was a shadow of himself at the beginning of last season. You don't need appendages to fall off for that to happen. Lack of confidence, concentration... tightness in legs or abdomen or arms... any number of reasons both physical or mental as to why. 

 

The only thing staggering is that anyone can say for certainty that a player they haven't seen play for a year will perform at the same level as they did before their exile. You can hope, but you can't know. You can't say it was never in doubt. Only someone extremely blasé would say that. 

 

As it is, two clean sheets in two games, coupled with almost a 50% reduction in shots faced in these last two games vs Dawson's last two games, show empirically that the defense has tightened up and/or we're faced two particularly poor attacking teams. And yes, before you splutter incredulously at that, we have. Only Bolton (8) have scored fewer goals at home than Middlesbrough so far this season (11 in 12 games). Only Ipswich and Rotherham (8) have scored fewer goals away from home than Preston so far this season (9 in 12 games). I think it's very safe to say that statistically speaking, while it's great to have our best goalkeeper playing between the sticks again, it is far too early to be saying that his presence alone is what has contributed to these clean sheets. It will be interesting to see how both he and we perform against teams that can actually score on average more than a goal-per-game at the venue we play them.

 

We've faced two of the weakest offenses we'll likely come across all season in consecutive games... the West Brom game is the antithesis of that (top scorers at home in the division) and will be a far more accurate measure of just how much difference Westwood is making.

 

Keeping two clean sheets is fantastic and a vast improvement over what we're used to... keeping two clean sheets against two of the worst attacks in the division and claiming that it's Westwood's organisation alone is ridiculously premature. 

 

Though talking about ridiculously premature, there were some quick to write off Westwood. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by theowlsman

[StudentOwl]

3 minutes ago, theowlsman said:

 

Though talking about ridiculously premature, there were some quick to write off Westwood. 

Can't argue with that, I didn't understand that either

Personally speaking, my argument was that, if he hadn't improved from what we saw at the beginning of 2017/18 and was performing to about the same level in training, then Dawson was pretty much on par to Westy... and then yeah it makes sense to stick with the youngster. What I never understood was that small band that seemed to think he was completely finished.

[theowlsman]

Just now, StudentOwl said:

Can't argue with that, I didn't understand that either

Personally speaking, my argument was that, if he hadn't improved from what we saw at the beginning of 2017/18 and was performing to about the same level in training, then Dawson was pretty much on par to Westy... and then yeah it makes sense to stick with the youngster. What I never understood was that small band that seemed to think he was completely finished.

 

We should have more reasonable posters like you Studie.

 

Those that told us about contract problems, bad behaviour, Mr C not allowing his senior pros to play etc. need to think about where they got that nonsense from and disregard those sources in future.

[Wednesday_Jack]

5 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Of course not... but it was clear he was a shadow of himself at the beginning of last season. You don't need appendages to fall off for that to happen. Lack of confidence, concentration... tightness in legs or abdomen or arms... any number of reasons both physical or mental as to why. 

 

The only thing staggering is that anyone can say for certainty that a player they haven't seen play for a year will perform at the same level as they did before their exile. You can hope, but you can't know. You can't say it was never in doubt. Only someone extremely blasé would say that. 

 

As it is, two clean sheets in two games, coupled with almost a 50% reduction in shots faced in these last two games vs Dawson's last two games, show empirically that the defense has tightened up and/or we're faced two particularly poor attacking teams. And yes, before you splutter incredulously at that, we have. Only Bolton (8) have scored fewer goals at home than Middlesbrough so far this season (11 in 12 games). Only Ipswich and Rotherham (8) have scored fewer goals away from home than Preston so far this season (9 in 12 games). I think it's very safe to say that statistically speaking, while it's great to have our best goalkeeper playing between the sticks again, it is far too early to be saying that his presence alone is what has contributed to these clean sheets. It will be interesting to see how both he and we perform against teams that can actually score on average more than a goal-per-game at the venue we play them.

 

We've faced two of the weakest offenses we'll likely come across all season in consecutive games... the West Brom game is the antithesis of that (top scorers at home in the division) and will be a far more accurate measure of just how much difference Westwood is making.

 

Keeping two clean sheets is fantastic and a vast improvement over what we're used to... keeping two clean sheets against two of the worst attacks in the division and claiming that it's Westwood's organisation alone is ridiculously premature. 

 

Lets put it in a more simple way...Westwood as played almost 150 games for us and has around 50 clean sheets!! Pretty impressive let’s be honest. Other than been totally negative, what makes you doubt his ability? 

 

Maybe the reduction in the in the amount of shots faced as something to do with Westwood influence on the back four? Maybe his sudden inclusion has helped Lees and co?

 

The best teams in the world all have keepers who are capable of winning points...they’re just as important as the bloke who scores 20 a season. We’re no different and Westwood is capable of winning points.

[adelphi1867]

22 hours ago, theowlsman said:

Do you think he can break his own record with 22 games left?

 

Thanks for nothing Jos.

He's faced 4 shots on target.

Let's not get carried away with what might be the legendry New Manager syndrome.

[Jim]

21 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

He's faced 4 shots on target.

Let's not get carried away with what might be the legendry New Manager syndrome.

 

Bullen's hardly a new manager, is he? 

[theowlsman]

22 minutes ago, adelphi1867 said:

He's faced 4 shots on target.

Let's not get carried away with what might be the legendry New Manager syndrome.

 

He just looks at an opponent, gives them the stare, they buckle at the knees, and turn away from goal.

 

Fact.

[adelphi1867]

2 hours ago, theowlsman said:

 

He just looks at an opponent, gives them the stare, they buckle at the knees, and turn away from goal.

 

Fact.

[Hack-Abusi]

On 26/12/2018 at 17:00, marble said:

Westwood is a top keeper but Dawson would also have looked much better of late if Jos the Clown had picked the best available team. We'll done to Bullen & the team for today's result, & many the clean sheets keep coming

 

On 26/12/2018 at 17:04, StudentOwl said:

We've conceded four shots on target in the last two games.

In Dawson's last two games, we conceded eight shots on target. 

 

We've conceded 16 shots on goal in the last two games.

In Dawson's last two games, we conceded 27 shots on goal.

 

It's not just as straightforward as Westwood making the difference. Undoubtedly and empirically it helps, but anyone wanting to use this as an excuse to stick the boot into Dawson is just a wee bit sad and not looking at the bigger picture of a much tighter defensive shape. 

Agree with this.  Dawson's game would have vastly improved in these 2 games. Special media is awash with Dawson bashing. But poo really. I think many of its knew though this would happen .. some fans don't look at the bigger picture ...

 

But glad things look up.

[Wizzard1867]

On 26/12/2018 at 17:04, StudentOwl said:

We've conceded four shots on target in the last two games.

In Dawson's last two games, we conceded eight shots on target. 

 

We've conceded 16 shots on goal in the last two games.

In Dawson's last two games, we conceded 27 shots on goal.

 

It's not just as straightforward as Westwood making the difference. Undoubtedly and empirically it helps, but anyone wanting to use this as an excuse to stick the boot into Dawson is just a wee bit sad and not looking at the bigger picture of a much tighter defensive shape. 

It's a MASSIVE help that midfield and defence is no longer wide open.

 

Dawson and Westwood aren't bad goalkeepers. Bullen was right to bring Westwood back in as you could see after FOUR months the Neggers we're starting to get to Dawson.

 

Dawson will come back stronger.

[Wakefield owl]

20 hours ago, hirstys_achilles said:

I apologise for assuming others have experience of being a professional footballer as there is lots of un written rules, 1 is if you not in the match day squad this does not mean you are expected to stay away from the team. Basically if your name is not in the squad at home (away matches is different as the manager tells you if you on the coach and travelling if not being selected) the amount of input if any is up to the player themselves. If you are a experienced player and not in the squad it was almost expected that you would be around for the younger team players to help if needed or just to jee players up or help moral its just what the older guys coming to the end of playing days do. Nobody would make them do this but the amount of input is left to the players discretion. I remember from my youth a goalkeeper of 4 or 5 years being no.1 was dropped for the younger reserve keeper by the manager and the experienced goal keeper basically assumed the role without any prompting of a match day coach passing on as much experience as he could to the youngster. All i could hear in the midfield was the older goalie shouting at the young keeper on how to marshal and  defend. KW is very vocal. Not when Dawson was playing !!!!

 

Times have moved on, We have a goalkeeping coach now who does the above. 

[Wakefield owl]

I’m not sure we should play a keeper at all. If we let in lots of goals it’s not the keeper’s fault and if we keep clean sheets it’s not because of our keeper either.

[StudentOwl]

2 minutes ago, Wakefield owl said:

I’m not sure we should play a keeper at all. If we let in lots of goals it’s not the keeper’s fault and if we keep clean sheets it’s not because of our keeper either.

Dawson has made the second most saves of any goalkeeper in the division

What does that tell you? 

[FreshOwl]

11 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Two clean sheets and everyone thinks we’re world beaters again. Personally don’t think swapping Westwood for Dawson has made too much of a difference. We’ve gone back to basics under Bullen and the players are enjoying a new manager bounce. That’s why. 

Normally I’d go with this but having watched the highlights and Westwood constantly in communication with the team (and even the opposition), it’s clear he has an effect 

 

his presence and body language, along with being a pretty damn good goalkeeper , make him one of our most important players. Needs another year 

[David1867]

Lets hope this is the last we will see of Dawson for a long time. Complete and utter liability and the reason we have been caught up in a relegation battle. 

[StudentOwl]

10 hours ago, Wednesday_Jack said:

 

Lets put it in a more simple way...Westwood as played almost 150 games for us and has around 50 clean sheets!! Pretty impressive let’s be honest. Other than been totally negative, what makes you doubt his ability? 

 

Maybe the reduction in the in the amount of shots faced as something to do with Westwood influence on the back four? Maybe his sudden inclusion has helped Lees and co?

 

The best teams in the world all have keepers who are capable of winning points...they’re just as important as the bloke who scores 20 a season. We’re no different and Westwood is capable of winning points.

Let me put it in a more simple way:

Just because David Hirst scored lots of goals doesn't mean you'd stick him up front right now... he hasn't played for a while, he's probably "lost it". 

Westwood had 12 months of not playing. You cannot know for certain that he hadn't "lost it" in that period. 

 

Dawson's last two games were Swansea(A) and Rotherham(H). Swansea have scored 17 goals at home so far this season, Rotherham 8 away from home. Total of 25 goals scored.

Westwood's last two games have been Preston (H) and Middlesbrough (A). Preston have scored 7 goals away from home, Middlesbrough 11 at home. Total of 18 goals scored. About 40% less. 

 

No-one is saying Westwood hasn't improved things. Certainly I'm not. I've said it twice, I'll say it a third time: Empirically, it has improved things. But, considering the objectively weaker opposition attack, considering the much talked about "honeymoon period" that comes with the territory of letting a manager go... it is super weird to be getting so dogmatically "Oh this is all down to Westwood" on us. It's very, very easy to forget about the opposition. No-one is overlooking a back line with increased confidence in their GK. But I would suggest you're overlooking the (surprisingly reduced) quality of the opposition attack, the increased confidence and desire from the players to impress their incoming manager, and losing the malaise that was associated with the old manager. 

 

Please don't create a strawman by saying I'm doubting his ability... I'm not. Please don't say I'm "been" negative about Westwood's inclusion... I'm not. All I'm saying is take a step back, look at the bigger picture... include opposition quality, and perhaps most importantly, don't get ahead of ourselves. 

 

That's my final words on the subject. 

[Growling]

11 hours ago, theowlsman said:

 

He just looks at an opponent, gives them the stare, they buckle at the knees, and turn away from goal.

 

Fact.

 

Funny!!

 

100pc Westwood is a man's goalkeeper.... Commanding.... and I think he gives each defender in front of him 10% more confidence, and that counts for a lot.

 

Can't deny he's faced less shots, but Westwood is a shotstopper anyway. Dawson isn't a bad keeper but we've lost too many characters and experience in this team all at once. Westwood didn't need to be one of them. 

[Growling]

Oh and if anyone wants to question Bullen and his credentials, then what a refreshing little insight he gave on going round to Dawson's place and giving him the news.

Can any of us really imagine CC or JL doing any of that dirty work?

 

We could do with whoever the new manager is to have something about them to do that kind of sh*te and talk honestly about the team dynamics. Fans want to feel a part of what is going on.

The last 12 months have felt like smoke and mirrors. 

 

Bullen has spoken very honestly and openly in 5 minutes of interview time, I never had 5 seconds for anything JL had to say. Sounded like he didn't have 5 words to say to the players at the end of a game either!

[Wednesday_Jack]

15 hours ago, StudentOwl said:

Let me put it in a more simple way:

Just because David Hirst scored lots of goals doesn't mean you'd stick him up front right now... he hasn't played for a while, he's probably "lost it". 

Westwood had 12 months of not playing. You cannot know for certain that he hadn't "lost it" in that period. 

 

Dawson's last two games were Swansea(A) and Rotherham(H). Swansea have scored 17 goals at home so far this season, Rotherham 8 away from home. Total of 25 goals scored.

Westwood's last two games have been Preston (H) and Middlesbrough (A). Preston have scored 7 goals away from home, Middlesbrough 11 at home. Total of 18 goals scored. About 40% less. 

 

No-one is saying Westwood hasn't improved things. Certainly I'm not. I've said it twice, I'll say it a third time: Empirically, it has improved things. But, considering the objectively weaker opposition attack, considering the much talked about "honeymoon period" that comes with the territory of letting a manager go... it is super weird to be getting so dogmatically "Oh this is all down to Westwood" on us. It's very, very easy to forget about the opposition. No-one is overlooking a back line with increased confidence in their GK. But I would suggest you're overlooking the (surprisingly reduced) quality of the opposition attack, the increased confidence and desire from the players to impress their incoming manager, and losing the malaise that was associated with the old manager. 

 

Please don't create a strawman by saying I'm doubting his ability... I'm not. Please don't say I'm "been" negative about Westwood's inclusion... I'm not. All I'm saying is take a step back, look at the bigger picture... include opposition quality, and perhaps most importantly, don't get ahead of ourselves. 

 

That's my final words on the subject. 

 

WOW...simply WOW!!! 

 

You think your clever with words but your logic defies any sort of realism!!!

 

”that’s my final words on the subject”....who do you think you are? You absolute clown