sonofbert2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 20 minutes ago, rickygoo said: We're in a relegation battle, we are playing terrible losing football, we have sky high ticket and membership prices, the atmosphere at Hillsborough on match days is terrible, season ticket holders are not bothering to turn up, we haven't even got any wee wee never mind a receptacle to dispose of it in, we've got quite a few players on many thousands of pounds a week not being used. Any of that "any old crap"? No apart from the wee wee bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robowl4life Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Lee Strafford said: Well, maybe their whole structure has changed in the last year or so after my friend, who is part of the executive management team at Man City, explained it to me....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said: Is the wrong answer - go and read the regulations Exactly and also have a look at where it has already happened elsewhere too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said: Exactly and also have a look at where it has already happened elsewhere too. Where has it happened elsewhere? Don't say Aston Villa, because then we'll point out that that has nothing to do with FFP and everything to do with the Villa's Chinese owner having funds blocked from being transferred from the far East to England. So apart from Aston Villa, which one would incorrectly think is a comparable scenario to ours and would cause much derision if anyone were to make that error... where has it happened before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, StudentOwl said: Where has it happened elsewhere? Don't say Aston Villa, because then we'll point out that that has nothing to do with FFP and everything to do with the Villa's Chinese owner having funds blocked from being transferred from the far East to England. So apart from Aston Villa, which one would incorrectly think is a comparable scenario to ours and would cause much derision if anyone were to make that error... where has it happened before? There are elements from Villa's takeover that could still be used as comparables in relation to accrued debts v revenues and there are other clubs in the division who have changed ownership in recent times i.e. since the latest limit/time period was set in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonowl Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 29 minutes ago, Ian said: Why do you have to start talking like an arsehole to someone who is trying to help folk understand.....whether what he has put or not is correct there's no need to take the tone you have....especially as I'd hazard a guess that your information isn't 100% spot on To help folk understand, you have to understand yourself. LS has enough of a name that some people will believe what he says as fact. He is absolutely wrong about putting equity into the club which makes it look like the owner is tucking us up by not doing it. He is also absolutely wrong about Man City and by justifying it through his connections, it just perpetuates the myth. If you would like to question me further or fact check any of the information I have posted, feel free. I'm not in the business of making stuff up for effect. I have nothing against LS at all but he was offering to help the Chairman out with advice the other day and then posts absolute nonsense about FFP so it has to be a complete lack if understanding of the rules or something else. I am very rarely so antagonistic in my posts but it really annoyed me to see so some respected by a lot of fans on here basically digging out the chairman for not putting equity into the club when the rules don't allow for it anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOwl Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 55 minutes ago, HarrowbyOwl said: Is the wrong answer - go and read the regulations Maybe you should go and prove me wrong before claiming to be mr know it all. Hull are due a takeover and will have money to spend soon enough. Go and read the press... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, MysticOwl said: Maybe you should go and prove me wrong before claiming to be mr know it all. Hull are due a takeover and will have money to spend soon enough. Go and read the press... Hull is the very best example of the very worst owners and something all our supporters should read going back to why the didn't turn up at Wembley rather than writing them off as poxy and demanding their unsold tickets. Hull's circumstances are very different to ours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, MysticOwl said: Maybe you should go and prove me wrong before claiming to be mr know it all. Hull are due a takeover and will have money to spend soon enough. Go and read the press... Hulls case is completely different. They have different P&S constraints to us due to parachute payments and different limits of overspend allowed carried over from their time in the premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOwl Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Hookowl said: Hulls case is completely different. They have different P&S constraints to us due to parachute payments and different limits of overspend allowed carried over from their time in the premiership. So tell me... When DC said he wanted to sell the club.....why didnt he make it clear that anyone who buys us wont be able to do anything different than him because of P&S? Tell me.....why is this never reported on any internet search engine about new owners being restricted upon purchase. The fact is because it is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) Welcome to Series 245 Epsiode 34 of ‘Man on Internet gets Angry instead of Accepting he is Wrong’. Edited December 21, 2018 by Sonny 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, MysticOwl said: So tell me... When DC said he wanted to sell the club.....why didnt he make it clear that anyone who buys us wont be able to do anything different than him because of P&S? Tell me.....why is this never reported on any internet search engine about new owners being restricted upon purchase. The fact is because it is not true. TBF my answer was in reply to your statement regarding Hull which seemed to imply that we were in a similar situation and I was pointing out how it was different. Regarding DC not making things clear regarding our financial situation when he talked of selling, why would he? 1. It was an off the cuff statement possibly made in the heat of the moment. 2. It is not a good sales pitch to run your product down when trying to sell said product. To get back to your original point regarding new owners. Under the old UEFA rules of FFP in 2015 :- Clubs failing FFP are usually offered settlement agreements but the new rules, in force from 1 July, allow the Club Financial Control Body, under certain circumstances, to agree voluntary agreements with proactive clubs who come forward regarding a future breach. Under the new FFP rules voluntary agreement applications would have to be submitted by 31 December of the preceding year, with funds committed in advance and guaranteed over the agreement period. But they also said and this may rule us out:- Clubs that have undergone an external change of ownership are also eligible to apply but those that have been under a settlement agreement or voluntary agreement within the last three years are not. As I say these are the old UEFA FFP rules, whether they apply to the new EFL P&S rules I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, MysticOwl said: So tell me... When DC said he wanted to sell the club.....why didnt he make it clear that anyone who buys us wont be able to do anything different than him because of P&S? Tell me.....why is this never reported on any internet search engine about new owners being restricted upon purchase. The fact is because it is not true. Any new owners will work under the same rules and inherit the position we are currently in. There is no reset button but the advantage is they will pick up the remaining assets, once FFP is balanced up and have fresh funds from when the button is reset by the EFL and our 3 year cycle starts again. In the very short-term they may have new ideas to inject funds without breaking the rules and thus narrow the gap which increases funds left over to work with from any player sales but there is zero scope for new owners to wade in and splash any cash they like and start all over again from scratch. Villa's new owners were allowed to settle the outstanding bills with HMRC but still face the decision of whether to sell players in January to balance or if they are "allowed" invest further based on their league position when they arrive at the window (not long) to "guarantee" promotion because otherwise they're in big trouble. Rules is rules unless off course they are changed, which could very well happen, anytime soon. The current situation is unsustainable and there are more than us and Villa in potential bother in relation to the current limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleo Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 hours ago, MotherGoose said: Similar but different rules. It’s UEFA rules that apply to the elite clubs because the punishment is barring from the Champions League. Thanks for that. Well I don't think we need to worry about barring from the Champions League just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonowl Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Philb125 said: I believe, and stand to be corrected that not all profits are considered on P&S just as not all losses are either. For example; youth/academy expenditure I believe isn’t counted against you. You can’t just add in non SWFC revenues from other businesses. Correct. For FFP (P&S) Calculations. The company income is somewhat irrelevant. All that actually counts are the things included in the definition of 'Relevant Turnover'. I can't be bothered to list them all but in a nutshell, if it's not football income, it can't be included. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Strafford Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 hours ago, londonowl said: To help folk understand, you have to understand yourself. LS has enough of a name that some people will believe what he says as fact. He is absolutely wrong about putting equity into the club which makes it look like the owner is tucking us up by not doing it. He is also absolutely wrong about Man City and by justifying it through his connections, it just perpetuates the myth. If you would like to question me further or fact check any of the information I have posted, feel free. I'm not in the business of making stuff up for effect. I have nothing against LS at all but he was offering to help the Chairman out with advice the other day and then posts absolute nonsense about FFP so it has to be a complete lack if understanding of the rules or something else. I am very rarely so antagonistic in my posts but it really annoyed me to see so some respected by a lot of fans on here basically digging out the chairman for not putting equity into the club when the rules don't allow for it anyway. Whoever you are your being super pedantic and coming across very aggressive. My point still stands they leverage Man City across their corporate structure to deal with FFP. A big enough proportion of value is accrued to the Man City brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bulgaria Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 8 hours ago, wattagit said: So can someone tell me if I'm wrong here but if CC sells the club even if the new owners were to have Man City type finances due FFP or whatever its now called we still can't spend F*** All I have no doubt that if we find someone with the finances of man citeh, we would be able to do what we ruddy well like Just like citeh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveger Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 so many ego's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lee Strafford said: Whoever you are your being super pedantic and coming across very aggressive. My point still stands they leverage Man City across their corporate structure to deal with FFP. A big enough proportion of value is accrued to the Man City brand. But that is still football related revenue, not money from unrelated dealings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 A very informative article re. the change in implementation that up to 12 clubs have fallen foul of: https://www.mikethornton.xyz/new-ffp-tests/ Same fella's take on us: https://www.mikethornton.xyz/sheffield-wednesday-going-concern/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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