Look in the mirror....

[Sgt Wednesday]

Before you start giving it big licks and getting all angry with me, please read the full post.

 

The Chansiri era

 

Started off brilliantly, the first season up to the play off final was outstanding and one of the best for decades, this was because of the money that the chairman made available. No one had any complaints at that point. Second season was a bit flat, although we made the play offs again the football wasn't great and we went into the play offs and I wasn't expecting much, purely down to the performances over the season. I could count on one hand the good 90 minutes that season.

 

I believe that is when CC should have left, he had done all he could and had ran out of ideas, he's done that all his career. The recruitment over those 2 seasons was poor, a short term fix that obviously didn't work. The difference in recruitment was huge, signing players like Bannan, Forestieri, Hooper, Hunt who at the time were in their prime and proven players with time to progress further. We then switched to signing 30+ players like Fletcher, Jones, Abdi and Boyd, a very significant change of approach. 

 

Carlos' last season was not a true reflection of the quality in the squad, the amount of injuries we had was ridiculous and that ended the season unfortunately. This for me is when it started to go wrong for Mr C, the appointment of Jos came from nowhere and for a team trying to challenge for a place in the Premier league did seem like an unnecessary risk and a cheap gamble. 

 

The Jos saga

 

He started well, we finished the season strongly, the players reacted to Jos well, however, we see it all over football, a change of manager does often bring about a change of attitudes and many players up their game for a temporary period. We then had the summer and god knows what happened, Jos managed to lose the senior players. We chose to let Loovens, Hunt and Wallace leave, who were key players over the last few seasons. We then entered the season without many of our other senior players unavailable, Westwood was a fans favourite and one of our most valuable players at the time, similar could be said for Hutchinson. Jones, Abdi and Boyd were cast aside. 

 

The Players

 

I have played football, I coach/manage football, I watch games as a coach and not a supporter for my sins, it's been clear for a long time that there was an issue at the club, and results are now reflective of it. We will never know for certain why but these player are not giving everything for the boss. We are conceding sloppy goals and none of them care, they just let their heads drop. Where is the fight, the passion, the anger? Where are the frustrated tackles and silly red cards? There isn't any because it's gone passed that, there is an apathy on the football pitch, they are bored.

 

The Fanbase

 

None of the above is that controversial, this bit might be, I believe we have to take an element of the blame. Sheffield Wednesday fans are amazing when we are winning and things are going well, yes I know, we haven't had much of that. It's the other side of the fanbase that we need to take ownership of, Hillsborough can be detrimental, its awful at times like this, the negativity is outrageous. Social media is a tool for people to speak openly, it doesn't mean they should, some of the comments I read are disgraceful. I read a comment on here this morning from one of the posters stating he stopped going when Chansiri bought the club, this individual didn't give the new owner a chance and here he is sticking the knife in at the first opportunity. 

 

We all wanted success, that means for us to be back in the top flight, for that to happen we needed to make sacrifices, the chairman spent money, when promotion didn't come we had to slow down. Would anyone be that bothered now if we were still spending 3, 4 or 5 million each on 4 or 5 players every transfer window. No,  but because that's dried up the fun's gone away and we are back to making loan signings.

 

The majority loved having a go at it for a change, we were competing at the top, well, it didn't happen, we now need to do it a different way, with good management, well, we aren't getting that at the minute. It's not the end of the world, is it? We still have good players worth a few quid, we just need someone to manage them properly.

 

Some of these reactions are excessive, extreme and unnecessary and trying to force the chairman out is plain stupid, we are in a dip but its nowhere near where we have been in the past. Why is it that it's always us? Maybe we need to have a look in that mirror, what can we do better?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[S36 OWL]

I ain't looking in no mirror,  I will frighten mi sen to death.

[Freshfish]

I’ll reflect on it for now...

Edited December 20, 2018 by Freshfish

[matthefish2002]

Fans have brought season tickets at record price in record numbers.

Brought replica kits in record numbers at records prices (well according to the club anyway).

The price the club pays for this is that expectations are going to be very high. Players, manager and owners will be treated as gods if they get it right and will get a bit of stick if not.

Are Sheffield Wednesday fans any more negative at the ground or on social media then any other club? I really dont think they are.

 

 

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

Sergeant.

obviously there is much truth in what you say, but as well as the power of fans to change the atmosphere at Hillsboro, we are dealing with an increasing disconnect between the club we love and the way it is being run. 

 

I swear it was easier to support the team in the dark days of beating Southend to stay in Div 3 because you knew the team was operating at about the level of its abilities whereas for a whole combination of reasons including crazy team selections,  the current squad aren’t. 

 

I can’t agree with you that the team dont care - I think that is exactly what annoys folk like Bannan and Lee who obviously are bothered. There is maybe a difference in that back in the day, Mick Prendergast, limited though he was, would be risking his own kneecaps week in week out for the cause whereas some heads drop a bit too readily with the current crew.

 

In my view, DCs biggest mistake isn’t Doyen Carlos or even Jos, it is his alienation of the POTG fan who can’t buy a season ticket by the kind of prices which make us seem like a Billy Big Balls Ken Bates club rather than the ground up rooted rag bag of rebels that we are.

 

Sincere thanks to DC for trying but unless he changes and presses the reset button on some of his decisions he would be wiser to sell. 

[Sgt Wednesday]

7 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

Fans have brought season tickets at record price in record numbers.

Brought replica kits in record numbers at records prices (well according to the club anyway).

The price the club pays for this is that expectations are going to be very high. Players, manager and owners will be treated as gods if they get it right and will get a bit of stick if not.

Are Sheffield Wednesday fans any more negative at the ground or on social media then any other club? I really dont think they are.

 

 

 

Our expectations are high because of the Chairman, would we rather not have had the last 3 seasons of being up there?

 

Is mediocre what we want?

 

 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

12 minutes ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

Before you start giving it big licks and getting all angry with me, please read the full post.

 

The Chansiri era

 

Started off brilliantly, the first season up to the play off final was outstanding and one of the best for decades, this was because of the money that the chairman made available. No one had any complaints at that point. Second season was a bit flat, although we made the play offs again the football wasn't great and we went into the play offs and I wasn't expecting much, purely down to the performances over the season. I could count on one hand the good 90 minutes that season.

 

I believe that is when CC should have left, he had done all he could and had ran out of ideas, he's done that all his career. The recruitment over those 2 seasons was poor, a short term fix that obviously didn't work. The difference in recruitment was huge, signing players like Bannan, Forestieri, Hooper, Hunt who at the time were in their prime and proven players with time to progress further. We then switched to signing 30+ players like Fletcher, Jones, Abdi and Boyd, a very significant change of approach. 

 

Carlos' last season was not a true reflection of the quality in the squad, the amount of injuries we had was ridiculous and that ended the season unfortunately. This for me is when it started to go wrong for Mr C, the appointment of Jos came from nowhere and for a team trying to challenge for a place in the Premier league did seem like an unnecessary risk and a cheap gamble. 

 

The Jos saga

 

He started well, we finished the season strongly, the players reacted to Jos well, however, we see it all over football, a change of manager does often bring about a change of attitudes and many players up their game for a temporary period. We then had the summer and god knows what happened, Jos managed to lose the senior players. We chose to let Loovens, Hunt and Wallace leave, who were key players over the last few seasons. We then entered the season without many of our other senior players unavailable, Westwood was a fans favourite and one of our most valuable players at the time, similar could be said for Hutchinson. Jones, Abdi and Boyd were cast aside. 

 

The Players

 

I have played football, I coach/manage football, I watch games as a coach and not a supporter for my sins, it's been clear for a long time that there was an issue at the club, and results are now reflective of it. We will never know for certain why but these player are not giving everything for the boss. We are conceding sloppy goals and none of them care, they just let their heads drop. Where is the fight, the passion, the anger? Where are the frustrated tackles and silly red cards? There isn't any because it's gone passed that, there is an apathy on the football pitch, they are bored.

 

The Fanbase

 

None of the above is that controversial, this bit might be, I believe we have to take an element of the blame. Sheffield Wednesday fans are amazing when we are winning and things are going well, yes I know, we haven't had much of that. It's the other side of the fanbase that we need to take ownership of, Hillsborough can be detrimental, its awful at times like this, the negativity is outrageous. Social media is a tool for people to speak openly, it doesn't mean they should, some of the comments I read are disgraceful. I read a comment on here this morning from one of the posters stating he stopped going when Chansiri bought the club, this individual didn't give the new owner a chance and here he is sticking the knife in at the first opportunity. 

 

We all wanted success, that means for us to be back in the top flight, for that to happen we needed to make sacrifices, the chairman spent money, when promotion didn't come we had to slow down. Would anyone be that bothered now if we were still spending 3, 4 or 5 million each on 4 or 5 players every transfer window. No,  but because that's dried up the fun's gone away and we are back to making loan signings.

 

The majority loved having a go at it for a change, we were competing at the top, well, it didn't happen, we now need to do it a different way, with good management, well, we aren't getting that at the minute. It's not the end of the world, is it? We still have good players worth a few quid, we just need someone to manage them properly.

 

Some of these reactions are excessive, extreme and unnecessary and trying to force the chairman out is plain stupid, we are in a dip but its nowhere near where we have been in the past. Why is it that it's always us? Maybe we need to have a look in that mirror, what can we do better?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really good thoughtful post. 

 

The Chansiri era - I make you spot on. I agree that CC should’ve gone after the Huddersfield debacle. Holding on too long before making a change highlights DC’s questionable judgement.

 

The Jos saga - Again questionable judgement. Jos would not have been a credible candidate for any other EFL team recruiting at that time. A decision more from Football Manger than a credible EFL Chairman / owner.

 

The Players - I also played (semi pro) and coach (FA Level 4 /UEFA A). I have coached Sheffield Schools and was at the Wednesday Academy under Clive Baker. In all my years I can count one 1 hand players who “don’t care”. It’s insulting to them as individuals and as professionals. I rather think they have lost belief in the mangers methods and instructions. I cannot see a gameplan or tactics from Jos. There are no triggers and everything looks ad hoc. At Blackburn away, I couldn’t even work out if we were playing 4 at the back or wing backs.

 

The fanbase - Hard to disagree. I doubt we are better are worse than other clubs though.

[N0rtherner]

I look in the mirror but there's a tail who keeps mimicking everything I do...

 

That aside, well written post!

 

Many of us should take a look at themselves, fans but als not forgetting the players and management at the club. We'll chip in, and need to get better at not losing heart and stay behind the team for at least the 90 minutes they are out there on the pitch, but ultimately they (the players + the manager/management) have to do the job out there.

[kingsidney]

It’s not the fans fault clueless can’t manage his chequeboook properly. 

[matthefish2002]

10 minutes ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

 

Our expectations are high because of the Chairman, would we rather not have had the last 3 seasons of being up there?

 

Is mediocre what we want?

 

 

 

Would I rather have had a sustainable financial planning with cheaper ticket prices so people I used to enjoy going to the match with could still go?

I know that cheaper ticket prices like Sheffield United or Huddersfield would mean we could never compete at the top end of the table. 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

Just now, kingsidney said:

It’s not the fans fault clueless can’t manage his chequeboook properly. 

Don’t think that fairly reflects the OP. They point out several factors amongst which is the fanbase. Don’t think the comments are unfair even if I don’t agree with all of them

[debram]

34 minutes ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

Before you start giving it big licks and getting all angry with me, please read the full post.

 

The Chansiri era

 

Started off brilliantly, the first season up to the play off final was outstanding and one of the best for decades, this was because of the money that the chairman made available. No one had any complaints at that point. Second season was a bit flat, although we made the play offs again the football wasn't great and we went into the play offs and I wasn't expecting much, purely down to the performances over the season. I could count on one hand the good 90 minutes that season.

 

I believe that is when CC should have left, he had done all he could and had ran out of ideas, he's done that all his career. The recruitment over those 2 seasons was poor, a short term fix that obviously didn't work. The difference in recruitment was huge, signing players like Bannan, Forestieri, Hooper, Hunt who at the time were in their prime and proven players with time to progress further. We then switched to signing 30+ players like Fletcher, Jones, Abdi and Boyd, a very significant change of approach. 

 

Carlos' last season was not a true reflection of the quality in the squad, the amount of injuries we had was ridiculous and that ended the season unfortunately. This for me is when it started to go wrong for Mr C, the appointment of Jos came from nowhere and for a team trying to challenge for a place in the Premier league did seem like an unnecessary risk and a cheap gamble. 

 

The Jos saga

 

He started well, we finished the season strongly, the players reacted to Jos well, however, we see it all over football, a change of manager does often bring about a change of attitudes and many players up their game for a temporary period. We then had the summer and god knows what happened, Jos managed to lose the senior players. We chose to let Loovens, Hunt and Wallace leave, who were key players over the last few seasons. We then entered the season without many of our other senior players unavailable, Westwood was a fans favourite and one of our most valuable players at the time, similar could be said for Hutchinson. Jones, Abdi and Boyd were cast aside. 

 

The Players

 

I have played football, I coach/manage football, I watch games as a coach and not a supporter for my sins, it's been clear for a long time that there was an issue at the club, and results are now reflective of it. We will never know for certain why but these player are not giving everything for the boss. We are conceding sloppy goals and none of them care, they just let their heads drop. Where is the fight, the passion, the anger? Where are the frustrated tackles and silly red cards? There isn't any because it's gone passed that, there is an apathy on the football pitch, they are bored.

 

The Fanbase

 

None of the above is that controversial, this bit might be, I believe we have to take an element of the blame. Sheffield Wednesday fans are amazing when we are winning and things are going well, yes I know, we haven't had much of that. It's the other side of the fanbase that we need to take ownership of, Hillsborough can be detrimental, its awful at times like this, the negativity is outrageous. Social media is a tool for people to speak openly, it doesn't mean they should, some of the comments I read are disgraceful. I read a comment on here this morning from one of the posters stating he stopped going when Chansiri bought the club, this individual didn't give the new owner a chance and here he is sticking the knife in at the first opportunity. 

 

We all wanted success, that means for us to be back in the top flight, for that to happen we needed to make sacrifices, the chairman spent money, when promotion didn't come we had to slow down. Would anyone be that bothered now if we were still spending 3, 4 or 5 million each on 4 or 5 players every transfer window. No,  but because that's dried up the fun's gone away and we are back to making loan signings.

 

The majority loved having a go at it for a change, we were competing at the top, well, it didn't happen, we now need to do it a different way, with good management, well, we aren't getting that at the minute. It's not the end of the world, is it? We still have good players worth a few quid, we just need someone to manage them properly.

 

Some of these reactions are excessive, extreme and unnecessary and trying to force the chairman out is plain stupid, we are in a dip but its nowhere near where we have been in the past. Why is it that it's always us? Maybe we need to have a look in that mirror, what can we do better?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, second season is when CC should have left, imo DC should have seen the rot coming and got rid, his inexperience and reluctance to be advised by the right people is when the rot started to set in as per your following observations of which i have no arguments, i for one dont want to join a witch hunt to oust the chairman, i just want him to stop being stubborn and listen to the advise of genuine experienced people who have the club at heart and not the charletons that have helped to get us in this mess, Jos also needs replacing too for obvious reasons.

 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

19 minutes ago, Rogerwyldesmullet said:

Sergeant.

obviously there is much truth in what you say, but as well as the power of fans to change the atmosphere at Hillsboro, we are dealing with an increasing disconnect between the club we love and the way it is being run. 

 

I swear it was easier to support the team in the dark days of beating Southend to stay in Div 3 because you knew the team was operating at about the level of its abilities whereas for a whole combination of reasons including crazy team selections,  the current squad aren’t. 

 

I can’t agree with you that the team dont care - I think that is exactly what annoys folk like Bannan and Lee who obviously are bothered. There is maybe a difference in that back in the day, Mick Prendergast, limited though he was, would be risking his own kneecaps week in week out for the cause whereas some heads drop a bit too readily with the current crew.

 

In my view, DCs biggest mistake isn’t Doyen Carlos or even Jos, it is his alienation of the POTG fan who can’t buy a season ticket by the kind of prices which make us seem like a Billy Big Balls Ken Bates club rather than the ground up rooted rag bag of rebels that we are.

 

Sincere thanks to DC for trying but unless he changes and presses the reset button on some of his decisions he would be wiser to sell. 

Exactly this

[sonofbert2]

The most time I spend looking in the mirror is for a running tap, crafty crywank so for the next one I will read the OP which will definitely help with the crying.

[bobness]

Making the playoff final ultimately counted for nothing. 

 

What actually mattered was the responsible running of our football club. And DC failed at that from day one. 

 

I do feel bad for DC, considering he's put in time and money, but with what we know today I don't believe praise is due. Sorry.

[kingsidney]

1 minute ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

Don’t think that fairly reflects the OP. They point out several factors amongst which is the fanbase. Don’t think the comments are unfair even if I don’t agree with all of them

Chansiris reign has been like the emperor's new clothes, some fans saw a long time ago that he didn’t actually have any clothes on and started telling other people. This caused a lot of friction in the fan base as lots of people didn’t (and some still don’t) want to believe it. 

  

  

 

  

[archieswfc]

12 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

Would I rather have had a sustainable financial planning with cheaper ticket prices so people I used to enjoy going to the match with could still go?

I know that cheaper ticket prices like Sheffield United or Huddersfield would mean we could never compete at the top end of the table. 

I can't work out if this is a tongue in cheek post or not?

[matthefish2002]

1 minute ago, archieswfc said:

I can't work out if this is a tongue in cheek post or not?

 

It was tongue in cheek.

Making a point that you dont have to have high ticket prices to be a success on the pitch.

[archieswfc]

2 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

It was tongue in cheek.

Making a point that you dont have to have high ticket prices to be a success on the pitch.

Thank the lord. I could only read it in a serious voice. Thought you'd lost the plot 

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

5 minutes ago, kingsidney said:

Chansiris reign has been like the emperor's new clothes, some fans saw a long time ago that he didn’t actually have any clothes on and started telling other people. This caused a lot of friction in the fan base as lots of people didn’t (and some still don’t) want to believe it. 

  

  

 

  

You can level naivety, lack of experience and poor judgement at Chansiri. These are not good characteristics for a football club owner and IMO are the key factors in our current plight.

However this doesn’t make DC a tyrant or someone who doesn’t care, as some would suggest. Neither does it justify the dogs abuse aimed at him. Nor does it suggest that pride and vanity is preventing Chansiri from recognising the truth, which I believe is the moral of the Emperors  New Clothes.