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crookesowl

Why is our defending so bad?

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poor full backs, weak midfield and no leaders in the team.  Although its dreadful to watch, we need to seriously think about going very defensive for the foreseeable future. We need to somehow go back to basics and just somehow get some shape and consistency with our back line. Be it 5 at the back or 4, we need our team to know their roles. 

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8 minutes ago, jonesy87shef said:

Several reasons.

 

Firstly we lost our best defenders. Loovens (prime), Hunt, Venencio etc.

 

The midfield in from of the defence is useless.

 

We let the opposition have the ball and invite pressure.

 

We don’t press as a team. The odd headless sprinting closing down doesn’t matter if you’re the only one occasionally doing it.

 

Full backs don’t follow runners or go to the ball. No decision is made and they just stand between allowing teams to easily pass round and through us.

 

We are static. Don’t follow up for rebounds. Opposition are always first to act. It’s an after thought for us. The team also doesn’t track runners from deep. Neither the midfield follows or passes on a runner to a defender, so one pass and they are in behind.

 

As much as Dawson looks like a fantastic shot stopper I don’t see organisation from the back. Our shape is bad and I don’t see him barking instructions. Yes that is a keepers job because he has the best view on the pitch and sees where space will/is opening up. He only seems to get vocal after the mistakes b*llocking players. 

 

We rarely win a second ball. Just constantly comes back.

 

Everyone looks switched off. It’s all reactory rather than anticipating.

 

Lastly, we are sh*t.

Nail on the head right there.

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5 minutes ago, Beholder said:

By the way I'd love Stuart Gray back here now. 

 

He is exactly what we need. 

 

I’d take him back but it’s not going to happen given Chansiri sacked him in the first place. 

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13 minutes ago, S72 Owl said:

A lot of criticism been thrown at our defence lately.

 

But I think the biggest issue is what’s in front of them. Pelupessy, Bannan, Reach, Matias has to be the softest midfield I’ve ever seen. I lose count the number of times the opposition run straight through our midfield and at our defence. I can probably count on one hand the number of tackles all four of those players won yesterday. 

 

Both Hutchinson and Jones would be brought in for the Rotherham game if it was up to me, and I’m really not a jones fan. 

 

Was saying this on the way back yesterday. Bannan and Reach clearly offer something useful. Matias.... meh. Pelupessy for me is an awful footballer. Waves his arms around in encouragement then hides.

 

But all 4 of them lack power. They confer no protection to the back 4 whatsoever.

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Lost loovens, venancio, hunt.

 

Noone in the middle of the park to take the heat off the back 4.

 

Nobody up front to put pressure on the opposition, all lightweight, slow, injured or throw.

 

 

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For all the money we have spent, yesterday was a stark reminder how much of it was wasted.

the goalie and defence playing yesterday cost a total of £0.  You pay peanuts and that’s what you get. 

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2 hours ago, mcmigo said:

For all the money we have spent, yesterday was a stark reminder how much of it was wasted.

the goalie and defence playing yesterday cost a total of £0.  You pay peanuts and that’s what you get. 

 

Not so sure about that. Look at what Wilder has done for some very average players at the sty. 

 

A good manager would make most of our defenders look like different players

Edited by IstillhateSteveBould

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The loss of Loovens can't be understated for his leadership and experience (and the positive impact he had on Tom Lees). Not signing Venancio was bad business, and letting Hunt go for a small fee and having poorer players in Palmer and Baker to replace him has exacerbated the situation with the defence further. 

 

Symptomatic of our clueless transfer strategy. It's alright those as we've spent all our money on strikers :ph34r:.

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5 hours ago, 33 said:

Because of Jos

 

No other reason.

 

Bull...t. We've said for years that Palmer and Fox are league 1 players. That was when we used them sparingly. Now Jos is forced to use them and the worse Baker every game. Not having Lee or Hutch in CM isn't Jos' fault either and having only 300k to replace them was never going to result in success. JP is like a fish out of water, brought in by a manager who hadn't the foggiest what was in store for them both. Chansiri made the decision to bring in Jos. Chansiri made the mess that's left Jos with an impossible situation to manage. Yes I agree its time served for Jos, but no way is the reason why defensively we're so bad down to Jos and no one else. 

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Loovens and Venancio missing is a big problem. There is a lack of leadership.

 

I actually think having Pudil in a CB role would help

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Loss of vital experience and leadership.

 

 

But also midfield. Where we have been crying out for a powerhouse for over four years , something we have dreadfully ignored in our quest to build the largest striking pool in Northern England.

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22 hours ago, crookesowl said:

What's happened? Record breaking seasons of clean sheets, followed by this season's disaster.

 

Is it the GK? Full backs? Centre backs?

 

I don't think it is. Yes Jack Hunt going didn't help, but even with Jack Hunt I don't think it would be much different. I think we are losing it in midfield. Pelupessy and Bannan are not strong enough to mop up and fill the gaps, and the full back's don't have enough cover with whoever is in front of them, because the system is failing. Under Carlos there was a fairly clear system with wide players covering, and the likes of Hutchinson / Dave Jones providing some experience in the middle with Lee scampering around as well. 

 

Yes individual errors don't help, but from the very beginning when Jos came in we have been wide open at the back. Last season we were just very lucky. This season we are being found out. It is far too easy for the opposition to break through. Our players are just running round in circles with no idea what to do. Their confidence is shot. 

 

I refuse to believe it is the players not putting in the effort which is why we SHOULD NOT get on their back. This position is brought about by the manager, and the manager alone.

 

The only way to fix this mess is with a new manager coming in and going back to basics. Get the team organised, bring back the experienced frozen out players, stick to a formation and take it from there. 

 

 

Been thinking about this quite a lot. There are several factors contributing towards the defence not functioning in the way we would like. The biggest single factor, way ahead of anything else, is the constant tinkering, changing not only the personnel, but even the system itself. You cannot do that, and expect any sort of continuity

I don’t think there is a problem with the personnel, and to me at least, there is a fairly decent back four that can be formed.

Other contributing factors are, a keeper who doesn’t command his area. Again, I’m not finding fault with Dawson, an excellent shot stopper, but it’s fair to say, his uncertainty on whether to come for balls, sometimes confuses defenders. This is somewhat compounded by us not having a natural leader in the back four. However, I have high hopes that Thorniley May become that player. Another issue is, we do not employ a defensive shield in midfield. If we will not consider Hutchinson, then Hector must be given the role. Pelupessy is NOT a defensive midfielder. It’s ridiculous that we employ him and Bannan in those roles, neither of them are effective there, and all it does is, stifles us going forward. Which brings me to another issue Because there is no focus on taking the game to the opposition, under Jos, everything keeps coming back on the defence. 

As I said, we have a perfectly good defensive unit that we could employ, Palmer, Lees, Thorniley(capt) and Penney, and sit Hector in front of them. Wherever possible, stick to that unit and try and build some continuity. With our creative players then freed to do what they do best, start asking a few questions of the opposition Tactics are what is holding us back

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I accept your remarks re Dawson but I don't think this has been a major contributor to any goals conceded. Many of us are citing lack of leadership and I think that is the crux.

 

Thorniley does look like he'll make a good captain but I think maybe his age and lack of experience may prevent him commanding the required respect from more 'senior' players at the moment.

 

A defensive shield is what we are missing too.

 

 

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23 hours ago, crookesowl said:

What's happened? Record breaking seasons of clean sheets, followed by this season's disaster.

 

Is it the GK? Full backs? Centre backs?

 

I don't think it is. Yes Jack Hunt going didn't help, but even with Jack Hunt I don't think it would be much different. I think we are losing it in midfield. Pelupessy and Bannan are not strong enough to mop up and fill the gaps, and the full back's don't have enough cover with whoever is in front of them, because the system is failing. Under Carlos there was a fairly clear system with wide players covering, and the likes of Hutchinson / Dave Jones providing some experience in the middle with Lee scampering around as well. 

 

Yes individual errors don't help, but from the very beginning when Jos came in we have been wide open at the back. Last season we were just very lucky. This season we are being found out. It is far too easy for the opposition to break through. Our players are just running round in circles with no idea what to do. Their confidence is shot. 

 

I refuse to believe it is the players not putting in the effort which is why we SHOULD NOT get on their back. This position is brought about by the manager, and the manager alone.

 

The only way to fix this mess is with a new manager coming in and going back to basics. Get the team organised, bring back the experienced frozen out players, stick to a formation and take it from there. 

 

 

Defend and attack as a team. Bizzare how poor we are given the resources on offer. Simple fact is JL is not the man to organise this shower.

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12 minutes ago, OxonOwl said:

I accept your remarks re Dawson but I don't think this has been a major contributor to any goals conceded. Many of us are citing lack of leadership and I think that is the crux.

 

Thorniley does look like he'll make a good captain but I think maybe his age and lack of experience may prevent him commanding the required respect from more 'senior' players at the moment.

 

A defensive shield is what we are missing too.

 

 

No, I agree, Dawson’s shortcomings haven’t been a major contribution to our defensive malaise, and he’ll gain more confidence from playing in a settled back line Constant chopping and changing is 90% of our problem

Re Thorniley, yes you can say he lacks experience to be a captain, but he seems mature beyond his years, and quite frankly, is the only one with any organisational skills. Certainly I’d persist with him at centre back, and Tom Lees looks more comfortable when paired with Thorniley

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1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Loss of vital experience and leadership.

 

 

But also midfield. Where we have been crying out for a powerhouse for over four years , something we have dreadfully ignored in our quest to build the largest striking pool in Northern England.

A powerhouse midfielder, a powerhouse midfielder, my Kingdom for a powerhouse midfielder.

 

Gets Jones, Abdi, Butterfield and a plethora of strikers instead (and even the strikers aren't the type we need).

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23 hours ago, casbahowl said:

Both fullback positions are our biggest weakness.

Absolutely criminal that this hasn’t been addressed over the last 3 seasons!

 

Definitely. I wasn't too bothered when Hunt left as I thought we'd sign someone else instead. To sell him and not replace him was crazy.

 

We've needed a new LB since Wembley.

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2 hours ago, York_Owl said:

A powerhouse midfielder, a powerhouse midfielder, my Kingdom for a powerhouse midfielder.

 

Gets Jones, Abdi, Butterfield and a plethora of strikers instead (and even the strikers aren't the type we need).

We have one, Hector has all the attributes, and has played there successfully for Reading

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