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League 1 tactics with a top end Chapionship squad.


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Guest LittleG
12 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

Before the season started most people thought we'd finish mid table. 

 

2018-11-16 21.48.08.png

 

Given that we finished last season quite brightly you have to wonder why so many people didn't fancy us for the top spots?

 

IMO most people, at that early stage already knew that realistically our squad,  with the additional losses Hunt, Loovens, Wallace wouldn't be genuinly challenging. 

 

Which is exactly how it's panning out.

So I'm not sure why there is now so much shock at our position...

 

 

I don't think there is shock at our present position, as per your list most people did not have great expectations. I think the "shock" factor comes from our style of play, tactics, formation etc, especially taking into account how we finished last season. Most people were hoping this form would have been carried through to this season but unfortunately we've gone backwards. 

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4 minutes ago, LittleG said:

I don't think there is shock at our present position, as per your list most people did not have great expectations. I think the "shock" factor comes from our style of play, tactics, formation etc, especially taking into account how we finished last season. Most people were hoping this form would have been carried through to this season but unfortunately we've gone backwards. 

 

Well like you say many were hoping we'd carry that form on. But clearly the brains kicked in and swayed people into a realistic vote. 

 

Some are acting quite shocked though. Many posters now thinking we should be challenging top end with a squad that is weaker than the one which finished last season and some convinced we're now bound for the 3rd division. 

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Guest LittleG
3 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Well like you say many were hoping we'd carry that form on. But clearly the brains kicked in and swayed people into a realistic vote. 

 

Some are acting quite shocked though. Many posters now thinking we should be challenging top end with a squad that is weaker than the one which finished last season and some convinced we're now bound for the 3rd division. 

You will always get extremes of thought; it's always the case that some people's glasses are half full whilst other people's glasses are half empty. Ah 3rd division, that's how I normally refer to that league.

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3 minutes ago, LittleG said:

You will always get extremes of thought; it's always the case that some people's glasses are half full whilst other people's glasses are half empty. Ah 3rd division, that's how I normally refer to that league.

 

Generally you are right about the difference between glass half full and glass half empty outlooks and how they affect supporter"s views of their club. But a vocal few seem to be taking the approach that the glass has been smashed and it"s sharpened edges about to be rammed into our necks and that the best thing to do is run around shrieking like a 1950s b-movie damsel in distress.

:biggrin:

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23 hours ago, SouthernOwl24 said:

100% agree - this is a joke at the moment. Completely wrong tactics and negativity which then translates to moaning fans like me. The manager is providing lies to fans about what is happening at the club and he is not the only one.

 

I appreciate that the chairman in years 1 and 2 threw money it and gambled and we lost I cant take that we lost the gamble and Im glad we did gamble as we would have been the L1/ Champ relegation/ promotion cycle every 3-5 seasons or so. However, the lies that coming out now is disgraceful. I think the fans want honesty and when we receive an update we all know it is smoke and mirrors for the club to try and make more money somehow. 

 

I have no problem paying £30+ a ticket IF we are contenders and have a competitive team. However, the fans that went to pigs on Friday deserve a refund for that performance - we didnt even want to score which is madness. We do not play our best team, which is clear, we play shoddy makeshift tactics, and we are all being lied to from manager and chairman alike. Why should we pay the most in championship to watch 15th best. Its disgusting and as mentioned I would happily pay top money to watch top team. 

 

The whole club needs shaking and looking at from the top down if they want the fans onside for the oncoming financial crisis. We need more honesty and transparency if they want people to buy a ticket to watch us ship 12 goals in five games. We have to play our best team and we have to get the chairman to be realistic.  Dont pretend we are going up, as he did, when it is obvious we wont and wont play our best players just to sell more extravagantly priced tickets - the fans feel robbed because you tried to upsell an obviously bad situation.

1) they weren't the wrong tactics at t'lane, they were the 'proven' tactics for a broken, young, inexperienced side to take away to the 'high scoring' league leaders and STOP them in their tracks.

2) it wasn't a choice between a 'gamble' and relegation, gray had shown that the previous year, his side had finished by bloodying the noses of both championship contenders on their own turf. it could have been done in a more 'sensible' way, rather than the 'shotgun' way it was.

3) it's not £30+ a ticket, it's oft' £40+.

4) that's what they are doing, but (belatedly) they are doing it with 'professionals' in charge, and not as the 'knee jerk' amateurs in the crowd would wish, as the 'charge of the light brigade' method has been tried, and proved an expensive failure.

5) by playing the younger, far less experienced players now, they gain the experience and confidence to play in (hopefully) a promotion chasing wednesday side in 2 years time, when the players in our present 'best team' will be further over the hill, and or picking up yet more injuries as they draw towards the end of their careers.

6) did you, or any other fan at the club expect the bloke in charge of it all to come out at the start of the season and say 'we're f****d, and this is how much we are f****d'?

it would be gross negligence, we'd have been fielding 'offers' for ff, bannan, reach, and co of a couple a million apiece as word of the fire sale got around.

Edited by dnhc
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13 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

Before the season started most people thought we'd finish mid table. 

 

2018-11-16 21.48.08.png

 

Given that we finished last season quite brightly you have to wonder why so many people didn't fancy us for the top spots?

 

IMO most people, at that early stage already knew that realistically our squad,  with the additional losses Hunt, Loovens, Wallace wouldn't be genuinly challenging. 

 

Which is exactly how it's panning out.

So I'm not sure why there is now so much shock at our position...

 

 

 

7th to 21st is a hell of a midtable range though tbf. 

 

We're currently 17th. Bottom 3rd of the league. With the players we have (while not on the level of those 2/3 years ago) we should be performing better imo. And the reason we're not is primarily down to the manager for me. 

 

I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion to hold. I'm sure most would agree we're no longer outright promotion contenders, but considering performances, current tactics, statistics etc.....I think people have every reason to be extremely concerned at the moment. 

 

Many things point to us only heading in 1 direction. 

 

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We have an aging unbalanced squad which any manager would find difficult to get performance out of. In a nutshell defenders are not good enough and we lack pace and energy in key areas of team and have insufficient variety. The current one has been given a poison chalice. 

 

To the managers credit we have found a few young lads who look capable of making a career in game and have added a bit of energy to team. it is a long rebuilding process and patience will be required.

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56 minutes ago, Quist said:

We have an aging unbalanced squad which any manager would find difficult to get performance out of. In a nutshell defenders are not good enough and we lack pace and energy in key areas of team and have insufficient variety. The current one has been given a poison chalice. 

 

To the managers credit we have found a few young lads who look capable of making a career in game and have added a bit of energy to team. it is a long rebuilding process and patience will be required.

Really? In Forestieri, we have the sort of talent that can unlock any defence. In Joao and Matias, we have the sort of pace that can stretch sides None of this matters of course, if you set up with nine defenders, and Fletcher up front.

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42 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Really? In Forestieri, we have the sort of talent that can unlock any defence. In Joao and Matias, we have the sort of pace that can stretch sides None of this matters of course, if you set up with nine defenders, and Fletcher up front.

 

Luhukay is getting more out of some of our decent attacking players than they'd previously shown at this level.

 

Forestieri is a very good player in the Championship, but unfortunately he's struggled with injuries for the past year or so. If he can stay fit, then Luhukay has shown that he knows how to coax the best out of him: he averages a goal every 122 minutes of Championship football under Luhukay, compared with a goal every 205 minutes under Carvalhal and a goal every 446 minutes under Jokanović.

 

It's a similar situation with João, who has looked a real threat under Luhukay's management, improving from a league goal every 367 minutes under the old boss to a goal every 163 minutes under Luhukay.

 

Hopefully we can get the likes of Forestieri, Winnall and Matias back fully fit and they can continue scoring at the same kind of rate some of our more dangerous strikers have managed so far under Luhukay's guidance.

 

Now if only we could see the return of Gary Hooper...

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1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

Really? In Forestieri, we have the sort of talent that can unlock any defence. In Joao and Matias, we have the sort of pace that can stretch sides None of this matters of course, if you set up with nine defenders, and Fletcher up front.

 

Or injured

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1 hour ago, gurujuan said:

Really? In Forestieri, we have the sort of talent that can unlock any defence. In Joao and Matias, we have the sort of pace that can stretch sides None of this matters of course, if you set up with nine defenders, and Fletcher up front.

 

Matias has, as usual, had long stretches where he has not been available. But under this manager he did start something like 8 consecutive games, something he had not even got close to before in his time with us. Joao has remained reminiscent of Gerald Sibon in the habit of playing multiple poor games for every excellent one he has and apart from that handful of matches when he was trying to get Forestieri to adapt to what he wanted from him, Luhukay has picked him pretty much whenever he has been able to do so (which has not been all that much this calendar year).

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After the play off final we had starting 11 of:

 

.......................Westwood

 

Hunt........Loovens......Lees......Pudil

 

Wallace...Hutch..........Lee........Bannan

 

..............Hooper.......Forestieri

 

Since then we needed a long term replacement for Loovens, should have happened that summer. Van Aken.

 

We needed a long term replacement at left back for Pudil......Fox.

 

We needed a ball winner in CM to share it with Hutchinson.......Jones/Pelupessy.

 

We needed a long term replacement for Wallace.........Reach.

 

We needed a number 9..........Fletcher, Rhodes and Winnall.

 

Permanent signings since then:

Van Aken, Fox, Jones, Abdi, Pelupessy, Boyd, Reach, Fletcher, Rhodes and Winnall.

 

Only really Reach and Fletcher have made a positive impact.

 

We allowed Hunt, Loovens and Wallace to leave, we have frozen out Hutch. Lee and Hooper are broken.

 

That means we are left with 3 of the play off final 11 playing regular football for us.

 

 

 

We have dismantled a very good 11 rather than build on it. Carlos had an opportunity and f'ked it up.

 

We are now picking up the pieces, Jos needs to stop being stubborn and bring Westwood and Hutchinson back into the fold, they are too good to leave out.

 

The picture looks very different if we were to have a bit of luck with injuries, plus bringing back the 2 above:

 

......................Westwood

 

_________Hector..........Lees............Penney

 

...............Hutch............Bannan

 

....Reach..........Hooper.........Forestieri

 

.......................Fletcher

 

Dawson, Palmer, Pudil, Pelupessy, Matias, Winnall, Onomah/Joao.

 

That leave the likes of Wildsmith, Baker, Van Aken, Thorniley, Fox, Jones, Abdi and Nuhiu pushing for places in the squad.

 

I don't think we have a championship standard right back so left it blank.

 

 

To summarise we do have the squad to get close to being a top 6 outfit, due to poor additions, injuries and poor management we are left with a bottom half team.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sgt Wednesday
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2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Really? In Forestieri, we have the sort of talent that can unlock any defence. In Joao and Matias, we have the sort of pace that can stretch sides None of this matters of course, if you set up with nine defenders, and Fletcher up front.

The same forestieri who’s always injured and or suspended . Matias always injured , joao turns up one in 10 games . To be decent you have to have players who actually play 

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4 minutes ago, james o connor said:

The same forestieri who’s always injured and or suspended . Matias always injured , joao turns up one in 10 games . To be decent you have to have players who actually play 

Yes the same, injuries are part and parcel of the game. They can be disruptive of course, but so can chopping and changing players when they’re not injured

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2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Really? In Forestieri, we have the sort of talent that can unlock any defence. In Joao and Matias, we have the sort of pace that can stretch sides None of this matters of course, if you set up with nine defenders, and Fletcher up front.

Really yes, squad is unbalanced, Penney has pace and energy too. but many of others have low basic speed and struggle to lift tempo. Joao is an enigma he has all attributes but just seems to look tired and listless in some games. Certainly not somebody who you can rely on prior to Jos arriving he had been written off completely. Matias does have pace but can not stand rigours of English game. Forestieri is quality when fit. Yu need a team not one individual.

I opposition team put midfield and defence under pressure we struggle and get not get hold of game.

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4 minutes ago, Quist said:

Really yes, squad is unbalanced, Penney has pace and energy too. but many of others have low basic speed and struggle to lift tempo. Joao is an enigma he has all attributes but just seems to look tired and listless in some games. Certainly not somebody who you can rely on prior to Jos arriving he had been written off completely. Matias does have pace but can not stand rigours of English game. Forestieri is quality when fit. Yu need a team not one individual.

I opposition team put midfield and defence under pressure we struggle and get not get hold of game.

I’ll ask you this, how much pace do United have? Less than us, but the tactics they employ, moving the ball quickly, always looking to get on the front foot, means, as a team they look much more effective than us. It’s all about tactics, I’m afraid

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2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Really? In Forestieri, we have the sort of talent that can unlock any defence. In Joao and Matias, we have the sort of pace that can stretch sides None of this matters of course, if you set up with nine defenders, and Fletcher up front.

 

We were sixth. Then Matias and FF got injured. Since we’ve struggled because we have no attacking threat. We were showing play off form with both available. Joao is inconsistent and can’t be relied on. 

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4 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

We were sixth. Then Matias and FF got injured. Since we’ve struggled because we have no attacking threat. We were showing play off form with both available. Joao is inconsistent and can’t be relied on. 

Maybe, but in the main, the performances didn’t match the results Only occasionally do we get on the front foot from the off

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We don’t have a top end squad.

 

Woefully unbalanced, Year’s of neglecting the defense, a truly disastrous series of signings. We all know the litany of woes.

 

Im not Jos’s biggest fan, but he’s responsible for none of the above.

 

Hes signed one player 

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