Perspective - This is a Major Rebuild & Jos Needs Time

[gurujuan]

Not me, don’t want that Barnsley fookwit anywhere near Hillsborough. Nor do I think our current squad is a pile of poo, on the contrary, it’s a squad capable of challenging, under a braver coach

[oldishowl]

With regard to giving goals away.

It was no coincidence that we got our first clean sheet in a game where we stopped trying to play it out from the back .

 

I found it ironic that Jos says on the OS that the clean sheet was because the defenders didn’t make mistakes.  Surely even he will realise that is because they were not trying to play football on the edge of our own box 

 

The reason we have not been creating chances is because we play too deep. You don’t create many chances passing it around in your own half 

[Guest ka58]

30 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

With regard to giving goals away.

It was no coincidence that we got our first clean sheet in a game where we stopped trying to play it out from the back .

 

I found it ironic that Jos says on the OS that the clean sheet was because the defenders didn’t make mistakes.  Surely even he will realise that is because they were not trying to play football on the edge of our own box 

 

The reason we have not been creating chances is because we play too deep. You don’t create many chances passing it around in your own half 

 

He isn’t good enough and needs to go ASAP.

 

 

[sonofbert2]

4 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Not me, don’t want that Barnsley fookwit anywhere near Hillsborough. Nor do I think our current squad is a pile of poo, on the contrary, it’s a squad capable of challenging, under a braver coach

 

Totally agree if injury free.

[Utah Owl]

4 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Not me, don’t want that Barnsley fookwit anywhere near Hillsborough. Nor do I think our current squad is a pile of poo, on the contrary, it’s a squad capable of challenging, under a braver coach

Ok I'm going to bite. What are the changes YOU would make that would see us challenging?

 

Same question to SOB2 as well.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Utah Owl

[gurujuan]

5 minutes ago, Utah Owl said:

Ok I'm going to bite. What are the changes YOU would make that would see us challenging?

 

Same question to SOB2 as well.

OK then, well I’d like to see us line up like this against Derby

Dawson

 

Palmer

Lees

Pudil or Thorniley

Penney

 

Hector

 

Pelupessy or Onomah

Bannan

Reach

 

Forestieri or Matias

 

Joao or Fletcher

[Utah Owl]

1 minute ago, gurujuan said:

OK then, well I’d like to see us line up like this against Derby

Dawson

 

Palmer

Lees

Pudil or Thorniley

Penney

 

Hector

 

Pelupessy or Onomah

Bannan

Reach

 

Forestieri or Matias

 

Joao or Fletcher

I would have no problem whatsoever with that line up, nor I suspect would th majority of Owls fans. It also fits in with the observations I made in the OP too!

[sonofbert2]

Same here.

 

Would have Thorniley and Joey as my choices to start.

 

Option of Baker for Palmer too.

 

Bannan can never ever be deeper than Hector unless tracking a player in possession.

 

Best side/decent options if everyone is fit.

 

Lees, Thorniley with Hector in front are the untouchables from the defensive line from now on.

 

 

[Blue and white]

On 12/11/2018 at 05:57, Utah Owl said:

He's only been here for 10 months and has been allowed to spend the square root of diddly squat which means he is effectively doing the job with one hand tied behind his back. It also means he makes a very convenient fall guy for Chansiri's complete and utter mismanagement of the club.

 

Under the circumstances is there anyone out there that we can realistically get that can do a better job given that there are no funds and effectively their hands will be tied. Whilst I would love either Warnock or Dingle Mick here, not sure either of them would take the job on in such circumstances.

[kingsidney]

On 12/11/2018 at 04:24, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

Do we have the same players though?

 

Through losing players to long term injury or just leaving the club, without being able to replace, we've got a weaker and less experienced squad. So no, we're not better, but how could we be? And how is that the managers fault? Basically I agree with the OP, to which I'd add that not one of us really knows what the situation is with respect to players contracts or bonuses. There are rumours that Westy will have a new contact triggered if he plays a couple more games, presumably on increased wages at a time when we need to be cutting costs. I don't know how true that is, but I often wonder if there is more to the absence of some of our players than Jos's stubbornness. In any case, if Hutch, Jones and Boyd are the answer, christ knows what the question is..........

Name 3 player who should have come on in front of Conner Kirby and not squandered a 2 goal lead against West Brom?

Edited November 13, 2018 by kingsidney

[Walt]

7 hours ago, gurujuan said:

OK then, well I’d like to see us line up like this against Derby

Dawson

 

Palmer

Lees

Pudil or Thorniley

Penney

 

Hector

 

Pelupessy or Onomah

Bannan

Reach

 

Forestieri or Matias

 

Joao or Fletcher

I'm assuming that you would have set up like that against Utd last Friday as well?.  4132 v 352 (ish)

Every player in both formations would automatically cancel each other out due to their starting positions on the pitch apart from the ones highlighted in bold. Utd would also have 3 players free - both wingbacks and a centre half. Who would do the most damage with the three spare men? I dread to think what would have happened to our full backs as they have no direct cover in front of them (exactly what happened during the 2 - 4 at Hillsborough when CC played a diamond) Hector in your formation would have had a very busy night playing as an extra full back. Utd's strength is how they play their wingbacks, your formation imo plays directly to their strengths.

 

Now switch that to a 433 v 352 and it's a different story, plus nearly everyone is crying out for a more offensive formation 

Matias RW, Fletch (or Joao) Striker, FF LW as the front three...(I know FF wasn't fit).

Our  spare men are now the 2 fullbacks. Utd's spare men are their two centre halves.   

Utd's strength - their wingbacks who like to play high would now have a massive decision to make as they have Matias and FF playing right on their toes. Do they bomb forward so much knowing that one ball in behind them could create carnage and that's not even taking into account how their wingbacks would fair against the individual skills of Matias and FF and the potential overlap from our 'spare' fullbacks, I'd presume they'd be a little worried and may think twice about being so cavalier.

 

You could worry whether FF and Matias would track back (no worries with Matias on that score for me ) and leave our fullbacks exposed but I'd rather take that risk than try to shut up shop in the return fixture at Hillsborough. 

[room0035]

15 hours ago, gurujuan said:

I’m pretty sure that is Jos’s thinking, yes. Statistics might indicate that we have the worst defence in the league, but I don’t believe it is The constant chopping and changing of systems and personnel ahead of an inexperienced goalkeeper, makes the defence look worse than it is The more worrying statistic, is that we are rock bottom when it comes to chances created. We wouldn’t suggest that the likes of Bannan, Reach and Forestieri are incapable of creating chances would we? Believe me, our current malaise is down to tactics, and not players

If you cannot keep a clean sheet then you know going into a game you have to score at least 2 goals to have a chance of winning that in itself adds alot of pressure. 

 

The defense are not keeping clean sheets, the midfield are not helping defend and also scoring goals and the forward line are not firing, all in all we have a lot of issues.

 

When you have this situation you start with a solid foundation and build from that that mean pick a back 4 and a keeper and build consistency in their level of performance and play then build from that. I would wager a bet though in the next game he messes with the starting line up with the defense because he simply cannot help himself. 

[james o connor]

13 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Not me, don’t want that Barnsley fookwit anywhere near Hillsborough. Nor do I think our current squad is a pile of poo, on the contrary, it’s a squad capable of challenging, under a braver coach

It really isn’t capable . There is little to no quality in it 

[ZicoSterland2]

31 minutes ago, room0035 said:

If you cannot keep a clean sheet then you know going into a game you have to score at least 2 goals to have a chance of winning that in itself adds alot of pressure. 

 

The defense are not keeping clean sheets, the midfield are not helping defend and also scoring goals and the forward line are not firing, all in all we have a lot of issues.

 

When you have this situation you start with a solid foundation and build from that that mean pick a back 4 and a keeper and build consistency in their level of performance and play then build from that. I would wager a bet though in the next game he messes with the starting line up with the defense because he simply cannot help himself. 

There lies the problem a manager who doesnt know his best side his best formation and lets the opposition dictate his selections. Instead of them worrying about us. Sadly teams can play attacking lineups as they know whatever team or formation we will be playing negative football.

[gurujuan]

55 minutes ago, Walt said:

I'm assuming that you would have set up like that against Utd last Friday as well?.  4132 v 352 (ish)

Every player in both formations would automatically cancel each other out due to their starting positions on the pitch apart from the ones highlighted in bold. Utd would also have 3 players free - both wingbacks and a centre half. Who would do the most damage with the three spare men? I dread to think what would have happened to our full backs as they have no direct cover in front of them (exactly what happened during the 2 - 4 at Hillsborough when CC played a diamond) Hector in your formation would have had a very busy night playing as an extra full back. Utd's strength is how they play their wingbacks, your formation imo plays directly to their strengths.

 

Now switch that to a 433 v 352 and it's a different story, plus nearly everyone is crying out for a more offensive formation 

Matias RW, Fletch (or Joao) Striker, FF LW as the front three...(I know FF wasn't fit).

Our  spare men are now the 2 fullbacks. Utd's spare men are their two centre halves.   

Utd's strength - their wingbacks who like to play high would now have a massive decision to make as they have Matias and FF playing right on their toes. Do they bomb forward so much knowing that one ball in behind them could create carnage and that's not even taking into account how their wingbacks would fair against the individual skills of Matias and FF and the potential overlap from our 'spare' fullbacks, I'd presume they'd be a little worried and may think twice about being so cavalier.

 

You could worry whether FF and Matias would track back (no worries with Matias on that score for me ) and leave our fullbacks exposed but I'd rather take that risk than try to shut up shop in the return fixture at Hillsborough. 

A fair analysis, but rather concentrating on what the opposition could do For me, there’s been too much of that with this coach, we need  a change of tactic. Let sides worry about us

[The only way is S6]

9 hours ago, Utah Owl said:

Ok I'm going to bite. What are the changes YOU would make that would see us challenging?

 

Same question to SOB2 as well.

 

When we shift the deadwood, which is inevitable, why can't we go back into the free agent market again? It's paid dividends in the past & any player worth his salt would want to play for a living.

 

 

[room0035]

23 minutes ago, The only way is S6 said:

 

When we shift the deadwood, which is inevitable, why can't we go back into the free agent market again? It's paid dividends in the past & any player worth his salt would want to play for a living.

 

 

Because come April 2019 we will once again be under a transfer embargo for breaching losses so when the 10 out of contract players leave no players will be incoming because we won't be able to sign anyone.

 

This is the position that DC and the club have got into, unless we sell players in January we will not be able to sign or resign any players until the beginning of 2020-21 season. So the club should also be looking who is out of contract in the summer of 2020 to include Steven Fletcher, Fernando Forestieri, Matt Penney and a whole host of other players.

 

Players we want to keep with less than 18 months on their contract need resigning up before April 2019 or we are even more in the poo, but the club have never planned past this season so why would we expect it to happen now. 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by room0035

[Walt]

48 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

A fair analysis, but rather concentrating on what the opposition could do For me, there’s been too much of that with this coach, we need  a change of tactic. Let sides worry about us

Concentrating on the Utd game:

I gave an option to play with a front 3 which would make us more attacking and possibly negate their main threat.

Could you explain how with your set up how they are going to worry about us, when you have given them the freedom of the flanks to run at our full backs who have no cover as we are so narrow? Carlos made this mistake with most of our big hitters on the pitch and we got taken to the cleaners. You have got to take this into account, you can not ignore their main attacking threat of overloading the opposition fullbacks, you (imo) have given them an head start in this respect with your narrow formation.

How are we imposing our game on them mate?  I can’t see how we can do that if we don’t have any wide players on the pitch unless you are either expecting Palmer and Penney to push right up or are hoping that our individuals are going to be better than theirs? 

 

[The only way is S6]

1 hour ago, room0035 said:

Because come April 2019 we will once again be under a transfer embargo for breaching losses so when the 10 out of contract players leave no players will be incoming because we won't be able to sign anyone.

 

This is the position that DC and the club have got into, unless we sell players in January we will not be able to sign or resign any players until the beginning of 2020-21 season. So the club should also be looking who is out of contract in the summer of 2020 to include Steven Fletcher, Fernando Forestieri, Matt Penney and a whole host of other players.

 

Players we want to keep with less than 18 months on their contract need resigning up before April 2019 or we are even more in the poo, but the club have never planned past this season so why would we expect it to happen now. 

 

 

 

Despite DC saying at the fans forum, the terms of an embargo would be that we could trade on the basis of one out, one in? Or do we carry on with a squad of 14 in your opinion?

[room0035]

22 minutes ago, The only way is S6 said:

 

Despite DC saying at the fans forum, the terms of an embargo would be that we could trade on the basis of one out, one in? Or do we carry on with a squad of 14 in your opinion?

No your can't the embargo means you cannot sign anyone, the P&S rules state you have to have a minimum squad of 24 players which we will have so if we break the rule we get no one it simple.

 

DC trust me when I say this does not have a clue about running a football team what makes you think he has checked anything - his financial plan for this season is promotion or bust.

 

From the EFL rule book

 

6.1          A Championship Club which fails to fulfil the Fair Play Requirement in accordance with these Rules (or is in default of any obligation to provide information in accordance with these Rules) shall be subject to a registration embargo (the “Embargo”) such that The League shall refuse any application by that Championship Club to register any Player with that Championship Club save where the Championship Club:

 

Exceptions are for trainees, if the club has less than 24 players but any incoming players annual cost has to be less than £600,000 a year pro rata, this included all salary costs to the club so basically no players on more than about £10,000 a week 

 

6.2          A Championship Club subject to an Embargo shall not be permitted to:

6.2.1       pay or commit to pay any Transfer Fee, Compensation Fee, Loan Fee or any other form of payment including without limitation sell on and/or contingent payments, in respect of the registration of Players permitted by Rule 6.1; or

 

So no transfer fees for new players so free agents only

 

And also will not be allowed to pay any fees to agents.