An assessment of where we currently are?

[Jim]

It scares me to see where we are now from where we were 18 months ago. How a side can regress so much in a relatively short space of time is unbelievable in many ways?

 

This demise IMO started in the main with the injury problems we started to have in Carlos' second season in charge and we became more attritional in our play as a result. We got away with it that season but we haven't been as lucky since. We are bogged down by negativity in our a play as a result of this period and we're struggling to get out of it at the moment. 

 

The opportunity to get some freshness back in our play was last Christmas when Carlos left but unfortunately we went on to appoint a manager who makes Alan Irvine look like Pep Guardiola. Yes, he's inherited a lot of problems not least an ageing squad that is full of players who are injury prone and arguably past their best and in all fairness because of the farce that is P&S, he's been unable to shape the squad in a way I'm sure he would've liked.

 

I'm not in the know but I can't believe an experienced manager and that is what Lukuhay is would shun experienced championship players in favour of untried youngsters without issues behind the scenes forcing his hand. It just doesn't make any sense. I believe that Lukuhay has found himself in a similar position to what Brian Laws did when he was in charge at the time when we had no chairman and he has had to be the face of the club during a time of obvious uncertainty. The chairman's outburst at the beginning of the season at the fans forum has been well documented and IMO has cast a black cloud over the club but apart from his tet a tet with a supporter last week after the Norwich game, he appears to have disappeared into the background and seemingly left Jos up the creek without a paddle?

 

Now Jos doesn't help himself with the constant chopping of changing of first elevens and tactics and the stand offish way he comes across to supporters but as has been pointed out, he's part of the problem not the whole cause of it.  He came to these shores with a reputation as someone who would walk away from a job if he wasn't happy with his working environment, yet here he is sticking it out when surely there must be reasons for him to consider his future?

 

As for the side in general, we don't have an identity or a set style of play. I think the main problem is the midfield. The balance is all wrong. It doesn't offer sufficient protection to the defence and it doesn't offer decent service or enough support to the forwards. Fletcher in particular is that isolated at times, he may as well audition for the lead in a remake of Robinson Crusoe.

 

Pelupessy does a specific job. Bannan looks unsettled at the moment after a strong start to the season and Reach despite his wonder goals and odd assist doesn't influence games enough in possession as a player with his ability should though he does work hard. I think Jos is not helping Onomah with his chopping and changing. The lads got pedigree but how can he start producing on a regular basis if he's not playing regularly. The same goes for the defence. How can we start being more solid if we play a back 5 one week and a back 4 the next as well as the constant changes?

 

I'd like to see a new manager. This bloke is not up to the job required but if there was a change I could see the chairman bringing back Carlos and the fact I think this is a possibility makes me feel we won't move forward as a club until theirs a change of ownership. I've felt for sometime he'll look to get out at the end of this season and events so far only make this belief more stronger but where this would leave us is anyone's guess?

[steelcityowlsfan]

Not sure how he’d know but Michael Brown said Westwood wasn’t playing because if he plays 2 more games it triggers a new contract. 

 

Its stuff like that and the feeling of deceit that irks us fans. For a manager who is struggling to not play his best players is bizarre at best. 

 

The trouble is we don’t have an identity because it’s chop and change every week with formations and personal. Add to that the horric defending (last night an exception) and we’ve gone from a mid table team to one looking over its shoulder. 

 

This would be an ideal time to relieve Jos of his duties and bring a new manager in. I fear last night has bought Jos some more time sadly. 

[Bigaltheowl]

I know people in the game get to know more than us but i think brown was just having a go at the club due to him being an ex blade.ps why did sky think we wanted to look at people in the stands that use to.play for united

[Blatter]

2 hours ago, steelcityowlsfan said:

Not sure how he’d know but Michael Brown said Westwood wasn’t playing because if he plays 2 more games it triggers a new contract. 

 

Its stuff like that and the feeling of deceit that irks us fans. For a manager who is struggling to not play his best players is bizarre at best. 

 

The trouble is we don’t have an identity because it’s chop and change every week with formations and personal. Add to that the horric defending (last night an exception) and we’ve gone from a mid table team to one looking over its shoulder. 

 

This would be an ideal time to relieve Jos of his duties and bring a new manager in. I fear last night has bought Jos some more time sadly. 

 

How could Brown know the details of Westwood’s contract.

If it was common knowledge to that extent journalists and social media would be all over it.

 

A lot of these ex Blades like to stir up a bit of controversy based on gossip and heresay don’t forget.

[Owl999]

1 minute ago, Blatter said:

 

How could Brown know the details of Westwood’s contract.

If it was common knowledge to that extent journalists and social media would be all over it.

 

A lot of these ex Blades like to stir up a bit of controversy based on gossip and heresay don’t forget.

Everybody tends to know everyone and their business in football, players talk to players, agents talk to agents, ex pros still have agents to sort punditry appearances out etc, I'd talk what Brown said as being correct .

[Mystic Neg]

8 minutes ago, Blatter said:

 

How could Brown know the details of Westwood’s contract.

If it was common knowledge to that extent journalists and social media would be all over it.

 

A lot of these ex Blades like to stir up a bit of controversy based on gossip and heresay don’t forget.

Unlikely, Brown would actually be helping us to understand why Westwood isnt playing in this instance, should he be correct.

 

Anyone who believes Jos when he said all senior players out of contract are being left out for football reasons need to think again and ask whether Jos looks stubborn or whether he looks like a massive non confrontational yes man. 

[WC1Owl]

We're suffering from a perfect storm combination of a brutal long-term injury crisis (which you can argue is partly due to excessive recruitment of older players, but I don't think that's the full story), failing to get promoted after spending heavily (which happens to many clubs - look at Fulham and Derby: you can come back from this) and a manager who came in brightly but ran out of ideas (and his successor being given a pig in a poke). 

 

There's not much point dwelling on the past IMO. And I also think that the collective Owlstalk obsession with transparency can effectively never be satisfied (fwiw I don't believe Michael Brown - surely you'd rather have Westwood on a contract so you can sell him). It's common in this division for teams to do well for a couple of years then have a couple of off years. We have no divine right to be doing any better. I think it's most likely that we've missed our shot at promotion for at least another couple of years, but that doesn't mean I'm ready to burn Hillsborough to the ground.

[Quist]

3 hours ago, steelcityowlsfan said:

Not sure how he’d know but Michael Brown said Westwood wasn’t playing because if he plays 2 more games it triggers a new contract. 

 

Its stuff like that and the feeling of deceit that irks us fans. For a manager who is struggling to not play his best players is bizarre at best. 

 

The trouble is we don’t have an identity because it’s chop and change every week with formations and personal. Add to that the horric defending (last night an exception) and we’ve gone from a mid table team to one looking over its shoulder. 

 

This would be an ideal time to relieve Jos of his duties and bring a new manager in. I fear last night has bought Jos some more time sadly. 

The commentator also said we turned down offer for Westwood in summer. One of the comments has to be inaccurate if we wanted Westwood out we would surely have accepted any offer. If we wanted to keep him we would be keen for him to play. Inreality think they were both talking tripe and have no idea on situation.

[Blatter]

4 minutes ago, Owl999 said:

Everybody tends to know everyone and their business in football, players talk to players, agents talk to agents, ex pros still have agents to sort punditry appearances out etc, I'd talk what Brown said as being correct .

The point is though that he could only have that opinion by repeating the gossip in the trade emanating from those  agents who as we all know are paragons of honesty and truthfulness.

 

There is the other factor of course  & that certain players just cannot train intensively every session.

How often did you see Hutchinson limp off after a tackle or Westwood sink to his knees after taking a goal kick last season.

These things must also be considered if stupid contracts have been agreed linking appearances to lucrative new deals.

[gurujuan]

3 hours ago, Great Big Galaa said:

It scares me to see where we are now from where we were 18 months ago. How a side can regress so much in a relatively short space of time is unbelievable in many ways?

 

This demise IMO started in the main with the injury problems we started to have in Carlos' second season in charge and we became more attritional in our play as a result. We got away with it that season but we haven't been as lucky since. We are bogged down by negativity in our a play as a result of this period and we're struggling to get out of it at the moment. 

 

The opportunity to get some freshness back in our play was last Christmas when Carlos left but unfortunately we went on to appoint a manager who makes Alan Irvine look like Pep Guardiola. Yes, he's inherited a lot of problems not least an ageing squad that is full of players who are injury prone and arguably past their best and in all fairness because of the farce that is P&S, he's been unable to shape the squad in a way I'm sure he would've liked.

 

I'm not in the know but I can't believe an experienced manager and that is what Lukuhay is would shun experienced championship players in favour of untried youngsters without issues behind the scenes forcing his hand. It just doesn't make any sense. I believe that Lukuhay has found himself in a similar position to what Brian Laws did when he was in charge at the time when we had no chairman and he has had to be the face of the club during a time of obvious uncertainty. The chairman's outburst at the beginning of the season at the fans forum has been well documented and IMO has cast a black cloud over the club but apart from his tet a tet with a supporter last week after the Norwich game, he appears to have disappeared into the background and seemingly left Jos up the creek without a paddle?

 

Now Jos doesn't help himself with the constant chopping of changing of first elevens and tactics and the stand offish way he comes across to supporters but as has been pointed out, he's part of the problem not the whole cause of it.  He came to these shores with a reputation as someone who would walk away from a job if he wasn't happy with his working environment, yet here he is sticking it out when surely there must be reasons for him to consider his future?

 

As for the side in general, we don't have an identity or a set style of play. I think the main problem is the midfield. The balance is all wrong. It doesn't offer sufficient protection to the defence and it doesn't offer decent service or enough support to the forwards. Fletcher in particular is that isolated at times, he may as well audition for the lead in a remake of Robinson Crusoe.

 

Pelupessy does a specific job. Bannan looks unsettled at the moment after a strong start to the season and Reach despite his wonder goals and odd assist doesn't influence games enough in possession as a player with his ability should though he does work hard. I think Jos is not helping Onomah with his chopping and changing. The lads got pedigree but how can he start producing on a regular basis if he's not playing regularly. The same goes for the defence. How can we start being more solid if we play a back 5 one week and a back 4 the next as well as the constant changes?

 

I'd like to see a new manager. This bloke is not up to the job required but if there was a change I could see the chairman bringing back Carlos and the fact I think this is a possibility makes me feel we won't move forward as a club until theirs a change of ownership. I've felt for sometime he'll look to get out at the end of this season and events so far only make this belief more stronger but where this would leave us is anyone's guess?

Probably sums up how things are at the moment. I’m interested in your observations that the midfield balance is at the root of our problems. I tend to agree, but the coach doesn’t really help himself with the tactics he employs. I know after claiming our first clean sheet, the clamour will be to persist with the three at the back In truth,neither system has proved conclusively better than the other. One of the disadvantages of the three at the back, is that it doesn’t afford us the opportunity to play a proper defensive midfield player. To compensate for that, Pelupessy and a Bannan are playing too deep. Don’t think we get the best out of Reach, but he’s a difficult player to incorporate into a midfield three. Certainly, he’s not suited to playing off a lone front man. This is one of the reasons why, if we have to sacrifice someone in January, then it should perhaps be him. 

Even so, Jos could solve the midfield conondrum by playing a proper pivot in front of the back four. Hutchinson, or Hector could both do that job. That would allow Pelupessy, Bannan and Reach to play further up the pitch. Whether then we played two up front, or one off a single striker, at least we would start to create chances.

[Guest Hillsborough Mole]

3 hours ago, Great Big Galaa said:

It scares me to see where we are now from where we were 18 months ago. How a side can regress so much in a relatively short space of time is unbelievable in many ways?

 

This demise IMO started in the main with the injury problems we started to have in Carlos' second season in charge and we became more attritional in our play as a result. We got away with it that season but we haven't been as lucky since. We are bogged down by negativity in our a play as a result of this period and we're struggling to get out of it at the moment. 

 

The opportunity to get some freshness back in our play was last Christmas when Carlos left but unfortunately we went on to appoint a manager who makes Alan Irvine look like Pep Guardiola. Yes, he's inherited a lot of problems not least an ageing squad that is full of players who are injury prone and arguably past their best and in all fairness because of the farce that is P&S, he's been unable to shape the squad in a way I'm sure he would've liked.

 

I'm not in the know but I can't believe an experienced manager and that is what Lukuhay is would shun experienced championship players in favour of untried youngsters without issues behind the scenes forcing his hand. It just doesn't make any sense. I believe that Lukuhay has found himself in a similar position to what Brian Laws did when he was in charge at the time when we had no chairman and he has had to be the face of the club during a time of obvious uncertainty. The chairman's outburst at the beginning of the season at the fans forum has been well documented and IMO has cast a black cloud over the club but apart from his tet a tet with a supporter last week after the Norwich game, he appears to have disappeared into the background and seemingly left Jos up the creek without a paddle?

 

Now Jos doesn't help himself with the constant chopping of changing of first elevens and tactics and the stand offish way he comes across to supporters but as has been pointed out, he's part of the problem not the whole cause of it.  He came to these shores with a reputation as someone who would walk away from a job if he wasn't happy with his working environment, yet here he is sticking it out when surely there must be reasons for him to consider his future?

 

As for the side in general, we don't have an identity or a set style of play. I think the main problem is the midfield. The balance is all wrong. It doesn't offer sufficient protection to the defence and it doesn't offer decent service or enough support to the forwards. Fletcher in particular is that isolated at times, he may as well audition for the lead in a remake of Robinson Crusoe.

 

Pelupessy does a specific job. Bannan looks unsettled at the moment after a strong start to the season and Reach despite his wonder goals and odd assist doesn't influence games enough in possession as a player with his ability should though he does work hard. I think Jos is not helping Onomah with his chopping and changing. The lads got pedigree but how can he start producing on a regular basis if he's not playing regularly. The same goes for the defence. How can we start being more solid if we play a back 5 one week and a back 4 the next as well as the constant changes?

 

I'd like to see a new manager. This bloke is not up to the job required but if there was a change I could see the chairman bringing back Carlos and the fact I think this is a possibility makes me feel we won't move forward as a club until theirs a change of ownership. I've felt for sometime he'll look to get out at the end of this season and events so far only make this belief more stronger but where this would leave us is anyone's guess?

 

This is just a very long winded version of my post!

[Guest Ash76]

We're in the same place as 12 months ago, in need of a rebuild.

 

2 windows gone since then but we've been a little hamstrung, this January though we look like having to sell just to keep FFP sanctions at bay. That means Jos may have a little more room to bring 1 or 2 in that meet his philosophy, the real rebuild will come in the summer though

 

Need to be patient

[Quist]

In last 3 seasons our team has played unadventurous very cautious football in order to get results. The players we brought in lacked energy and pace and whenever we play against high tempo opposition we struggle. Our defenders are below standard you need in this division which means you need to pack defence to get results. We have tried various combinations of players in a more attacking formation and we have got rolled over. Think JL is under pressure to get team playing a more expansive game and that is what he has been trying to do. He does like to rest players which I am not keen on and I agree team has not benefited from lack of continuity.

 

Pelupessy can tackle but he does not have speed to play a more expansive game so has to sit in front of back 4. The only midfield players we have with running power to compete with teams are Reach and Keiron Lee. We have used Reach further forward as a goal threat this season as we lack regular goal scorers up front. Teams have worked this out now and put a man on him.  Penney probably has running power but is raw and better suited to defensive role where his pace helps out.

 

The central defenders have clearly demonstrated they can not play as a pair with 3 it does deny opposition space and makes us more secure.

 

JL as not had a fair crack of whip in being allowed to shape team in own image. Last season lots of players were injured when he cam in and difficult to strengthen when you do not know what you may have available. In summer was denied chance to strengthen due to embargo. He did not receive support from club in summer when trying to defend transfer strategy. His playing cards close to his chest does not help him in his press conferences but in circumstances few could have done better.

 

The squad is aging lacks variety and has several who will not get a lucrative contract with a club at this level or higher again. The constant griping of fans about players who have not shown any form when last playing football suggests a refusal to admit our transfer policy was diabolical and will take at least another 18 months to get sorted. 

 

Players who are carrying injuries and unable to be 100% fit for a game are not ones to rely upon and you can not build a team around them. This is how you end up with really flat performances in key games.

 

The good light is the use of youth players, Dawson Penney and Baker all look as if they have future in game and U/18s are a really good bunch with a few certain to make the grade. We need to accept we are in a period of survival and need to get into position where funds can be available and used wisely.

[Jim]

36 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Probably sums up how things are at the moment. I’m interested in your observations that the midfield balance is at the root of our problems. I tend to agree, but the coach doesn’t really help himself with the tactics he employs. I know after claiming our first clean sheet, the clamour will be to persist with the three at the back In truth,neither system has proved conclusively better than the other. One of the disadvantages of the three at the back, is that it doesn’t afford us the opportunity to play a proper defensive midfield player. To compensate for that, Pelupessy and a Bannan are playing too deep. Don’t think we get the best out of Reach, but he’s a difficult player to incorporate into a midfield three. Certainly, he’s not suited to playing off a lone front man. This is one of the reasons why, if we have to sacrifice someone in January, then it should perhaps be him. 

Even so, Jos could solve the midfield conondrum by playing a proper pivot in front of the back four. Hutchinson, or Hector could both do that job. That would allow Pelupessy, Bannan and Reach to play further up the pitch. Whether then we played two up front, or one off a single striker, at least we would start to create chances.

 

Pelupessy is effectively an holding midfielder. Works hard, puts himself about but is neither quick or physical. I think Hector would be a revelation in this role but it would be for this season only as our chances of keeping him are next to none.

 

I’d like to see Bannan as the playmaker not to dissimilar to the role Sheridan played for us. I’d like us to have a box to box player who would do a lot of the leg work. Again harking back to the successful 1990’s side, a Carlton Palmer type figure and then perhaps Forrestieri playing behind a front two?

 

So a variation of a midfield diamond/four? I can’t see a place for Reach as he doesn’t really fit any of the roles or perhaps just the Forrestieri role if any? I think he’ll be sold in January anyway?

 

 

[gurujuan]

17 minutes ago, Great Big Galaa said:

 

Pelupessy is effectively an holding midfielder. Works hard, puts himself about but is neither quick or physical. I think Hector would be a revelation in this role but it would be for this season only as our chances of keeping him are next to none.

 

I’d like to see Bannan as the playmaker not to dissimilar to the role Sheridan played for us. I’d like us to have a box to box player who would do a lot of the leg work. Again harking back to the successful 1990’s side, a Carlton Palmer type figure and then perhaps Forrestieri playing behind a front two?

 

So a variation of a midfield diamond/four? I can’t see a place for Reach as he doesn’t really fit any of the roles or perhaps just the Forrestieri role if any? I think he’ll be sold in January anyway?

 

 

I like Pelupessy, but as you say, he doesn’t have the physical presence to be an out and out defensive midfielder, he’s more the sort of player who keeps things ticking over. Making himself available, alongside Bannan, but further up the pitch We simply have to start creating more chances, especially if, come January, we do lose the long range strikes from Reach

Edited November 10, 2018 by gurujuan

[Mr Farrell]

The regression and mismanagement has been shocking.

[Justbeanz]

1 hour ago, Hillsborough Mole said:

 

This is just a very long winded version of my post!

Plagiarism Mole. Get him sued.

[Owlstastic]

We are currently 18th. Rovrum 1 up! Oh it's OK - back to 17th 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Owlstastic

[vulture_squadron]

We had a good team 3 years ago. We didn't replace any of the ageing stars (Loovens, Wallace, Pudil as LB) with any quality and signed has beens when we needed a future (Abdi, Boyd, Jones). 

 

No pace, no athleticism and now financially restrained. Need time to sort it out and need more players to stay fit.

 

Some good kids coming through though! 

 

[hangonrose]

8 hours ago, Great Big Galaa said:

It scares me to see where we are now from where we were 18 months ago. How a side can regress so much in a relatively short space of time is unbelievable in many ways?

 

This demise IMO started in the main with the injury problems we started to have in Carlos' second season in charge and we became more attritional in our play as a result. We got away with it that season but we haven't been as lucky since. We are bogged down by negativity in our a play as a result of this period and we're struggling to get out of it at the moment. 

 

The opportunity to get some freshness back in our play was last Christmas when Carlos left but unfortunately we went on to appoint a manager who makes Alan Irvine look like Pep Guardiola. Yes, he's inherited a lot of problems not least an ageing squad that is full of players who are injury prone and arguably past their best and in all fairness because of the farce that is P&S, he's been unable to shape the squad in a way I'm sure he would've liked.

 

I'm not in the know but I can't believe an experienced manager and that is what Lukuhay is would shun experienced championship players in favour of untried youngsters without issues behind the scenes forcing his hand. It just doesn't make any sense. I believe that Lukuhay has found himself in a similar position to what Brian Laws did when he was in charge at the time when we had no chairman and he has had to be the face of the club during a time of obvious uncertainty. The chairman's outburst at the beginning of the season at the fans forum has been well documented and IMO has cast a black cloud over the club but apart from his tet a tet with a supporter last week after the Norwich game, he appears to have disappeared into the background and seemingly left Jos up the creek without a paddle?

 

Now Jos doesn't help himself with the constant chopping of changing of first elevens and tactics and the stand offish way he comes across to supporters but as has been pointed out, he's part of the problem not the whole cause of it.  He came to these shores with a reputation as someone who would walk away from a job if he wasn't happy with his working environment, yet here he is sticking it out when surely there must be reasons for him to consider his future?

 

As for the side in general, we don't have an identity or a set style of play. I think the main problem is the midfield. The balance is all wrong. It doesn't offer sufficient protection to the defence and it doesn't offer decent service or enough support to the forwards. Fletcher in particular is that isolated at times, he may as well audition for the lead in a remake of Robinson Crusoe.

 

Pelupessy does a specific job. Bannan looks unsettled at the moment after a strong start to the season and Reach despite his wonder goals and odd assist doesn't influence games enough in possession as a player with his ability should though he does work hard. I think Jos is not helping Onomah with his chopping and changing. The lads got pedigree but how can he start producing on a regular basis if he's not playing regularly. The same goes for the defence. How can we start being more solid if we play a back 5 one week and a back 4 the next as well as the constant changes?

 

I'd like to see a new manager. This bloke is not up to the job required but if there was a change I could see the chairman bringing back Carlos and the fact I think this is a possibility makes me feel we won't move forward as a club until theirs a change of ownership. I've felt for sometime he'll look to get out at the end of this season and events so far only make this belief more stronger but where this would leave us is anyone's guess?

A lot of logic there...