Pale Rider Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 6 hours ago, Lord Snooty said: ...and every game. That is why we make decisions. If this is the criteria and quality is not the true benchmark then the inevitable failure will come sure as eggs are eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, mkowl said: Irrelevant you don't treat any player on the payroll this way Treat them what way? Get fit for training or dont play. Seems pretty straightforward to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Pale Rider said: If this is the criteria and quality is not the true benchmark then the inevitable failure will come sure as eggs are eggs. Quality will increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogers Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Sometimes you have to treat players differently to get the best out of them, they are not robots. And you you must always pick your best players. Big Ron used to treat Paul McGrath differently, he was a firm fans favourite, I think son PFA player of year, and Villa were challenging fir everything..... Big Ron quote: “I was at Sheffield Wednesday when I got wind that Paul McGrath’s time at Old Trafford was coming to an end. I had just sold Ian Cranson to Stoke for £400,000, the kind of deal that makes you think you can swim the Channel, which meant I had some money. I phoned Alex and told him I would be interested in Paul for £100,000, which could go up depending on how he did at Hillsborough. Fergie told me he’d think about it and the next day I got a call from Graham Taylor at Aston Villa, whose opening words were: ‘Ron, tell me about Paul McGrath.’ I probably should have said, ‘Don’t touch him. He’s useless.’ But I couldn’t help myself. I told Graham what I thought and he joined Aston Villa for £450,000. The deal worked out pretty well for me because within two years I was his manager once more. If any other Manchester United player had done off the field what Paul did, they would not have tolerated it, but because it was Paul and because they knew he had a problem, they let it go. The pain in his knee and the drink were intertwined. He used one to deal with the other. When I became manager of Aston Villa, Gordon Cowans came up to me and said, ‘Listen, gaffer, we don’t mind Macca. We want him in the team.’ In the first four years of the Premier League he barely missed a game and, if you ask an Aston Villa fan who’s been at the club for 30 years to name the best player they have seen, some might say Gordon Cowans but most would probably tell you it is Paul McGrath. He didn’t train; he couldn’t train because his knee simply wouldn’t allow it. He would come into the gym at Bodymoor Heath and just use the bikes or the static weights. He worked very closely with the Aston Villa physio, Jim Walker, and one day Jim said it would be worth increasing the load on the bike. ‘It is as if you’re pedalling uphill,’ he said, adjusting the weight, which prompted Paul to get off. When Jim asked why, he said, ‘Well, outdoors, I always push the bike when I am going uphill.’” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Rider Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, billyblack said: Quality will increase. The only problem is as usual Jos is spouting poo . FF, Joao and Lees have missed more games through injury in the last 3 seasons than Westwood has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rogers said: Sometimes you have to treat players differently to get the best out of them, they are not robots. And you you must always pick your best players. Big Ron used to treat Paul McGrath differently, he was a firm fans favourite, I think son PFA player of year, and Villa were challenging fir everything..... Big Ron quote: “I was at Sheffield Wednesday when I got wind that Paul McGrath’s time at Old Trafford was coming to an end. I had just sold Ian Cranson to Stoke for £400,000, the kind of deal that makes you think you can swim the Channel, which meant I had some money. I phoned Alex and told him I would be interested in Paul for £100,000, which could go up depending on how he did at Hillsborough. Fergie told me he’d think about it and the next day I got a call from Graham Taylor at Aston Villa, whose opening words were: ‘Ron, tell me about Paul McGrath.’ I probably should have said, ‘Don’t touch him. He’s useless.’ But I couldn’t help myself. I told Graham what I thought and he joined Aston Villa for £450,000. The deal worked out pretty well for me because within two years I was his manager once more. If any other Manchester United player had done off the field what Paul did, they would not have tolerated it, but because it was Paul and because they knew he had a problem, they let it go. The pain in his knee and the drink were intertwined. He used one to deal with the other. When I became manager of Aston Villa, Gordon Cowans came up to me and said, ‘Listen, gaffer, we don’t mind Macca. We want him in the team.’ In the first four years of the Premier League he barely missed a game and, if you ask an Aston Villa fan who’s been at the club for 30 years to name the best player they have seen, some might say Gordon Cowans but most would probably tell you it is Paul McGrath. He didn’t train; he couldn’t train because his knee simply wouldn’t allow it. He would come into the gym at Bodymoor Heath and just use the bikes or the static weights. He worked very closely with the Aston Villa physio, Jim Walker, and one day Jim said it would be worth increasing the load on the bike. ‘It is as if you’re pedalling uphill,’ he said, adjusting the weight, which prompted Paul to get off. When Jim asked why, he said, ‘Well, outdoors, I always push the bike when I am going Irrelevant now. The manager has stated what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, mkowl said: Irrelevant you don't treat any player on the payroll this way You should probably tell that to Guardiola, then. He's dropped the likes of Yaya Touré and Joe Hart when he felt it was the right thing to do. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyblack Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Pale Rider said: The only problem is as usual Jos is spouting poo . FF, Joao and Lees have missed more games through injury in the last 3 seasons than Westwood has. Westwood doesnt want to train every day apparently . Must be beneath him or something. I think he talks plain english. People just dont like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWLERTON GHOST Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 48 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: He's no freewheeling Carlos.. that's for sure mate. My opinion is that he's changing the way the club operates in a fundamental way and things will get worse before they get better. He seems to have the playing side of things on a knife edge while he installs his ethos throughout.... bloody dangerous but I'd say him and DC are on the same page and he'll get to see it through. The fans can hardly walk away because they're mostly season ticket holders. Apart from a cup run it could be a boring season...but hey ho. I will keep banging the drum .. Those old enough to remember Big Jacks tenure know what I'm on about. Big Jack didnt have the restrictions Jos has now ... Embargoes - Transfer windows - Contract /Bonus Parameters Lazy Buckshee Big time Charlies. .. Get behind him, get behind the club and we will get there ... It's not a quick fix .... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Rider Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, billyblack said: Westwood doesnt want to train every day apparently . Must be beneath him or something. I think he talks plain english. People just dont like it Absolute conjecture again. They aren’t playing for football reasons. That should mean, they’re not as good as the players he is picking. If you are going to back him do so without inventing some other reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatter Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 6 hours ago, room0035 said: The excuse over the last 3 months has been injuries we are now told only 3 players of the 10 reported in the press are injured you can kind of see why everyone thinks what the manager is saying is not true. We are led to believe Fessi, Matias, Winnall, Hooper, Lee, Pudil, Abdi are all injured but we are now told at least 4 of them are not. Thought he indicated today Fessi, and Matias are back in training, and we know Abdi and Pudil are fit and training Just leaves three, Winnall, Hooper and Lee, unless I misunderstand the presser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: You should probably tell that to Guardiola, then. He's dropped the likes of Yaya Touré and Joe Hart when he felt it was the right thing to do. Difference is he has won several league titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogers Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, mkowl said: Difference is he has won several league titles. True..And he has other international or raising world stars to replace the older players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areNOTwhatTHEYseem Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, mkowl said: Difference is he has won several league titles. So to go back to your original point: it is sometimes OK to treat a player on the payroll that way, then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon barksdale Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 35 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: You should probably tell that to Guardiola, then. He's dropped the likes of Yaya Touré and Joe Hart when he felt it was the right thing to do. Irrelevant, pep had edersen, de Bruyne and silva to replace them, same with sane this season when he put Mahrez in. Our replacement for Jones and hutch is Connor kirby and he's not upto it at present . You play the cards your dealt with peps cards are clearly better than ours, and Jos ain't playing his very well. We're a mid table second division team we should be trying to find any advantage we can not introducing policies/morals that weaken us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Costello 77 said: Subtle is my middle name. See how I would have handled FFs return? No, which thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Just now, Holmowl said: No, which thread? Open goal and you didn't work a cliché in. The thread where I was being impish last night. There's none so blind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: So to go back to your original point: it is sometimes OK to treat a player on the payroll that way, then? FFS you have leaked tomorrow's defensive plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmowl Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: Open goal and you didn't work a cliché in. The thread where I was being impish last night. There's none so blind.... Im slipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mkowl Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 19 minutes ago, areNOTwhatTHEYseem said: So to go back to your original point: it is sometimes OK to treat a player on the payroll that way, then? Ok the odd player will naturally reach the end of their career. The issue a lot of us see is that these players still have a lot to offer, even if there is no guarantee they could play every time. It's also the fact younger players will develop better alongside experience and less pressure on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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