Philb125 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mishowl said: False fact? It was 0-0 at the Lane? Ok I will help you out. In addition to Westwood the “co” included Lees Reach Bannan Lee Hooper Fletcher Are you saying these, if fit, should not play or is Westwood your scapegoat? I’m not certain what’s complicated here. How did Westwood & co get on last season against the blades? Clue: it’s the only game Westwood player in against them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxonOwl Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 minute ago, poite said: You feel correctly. I bet you that if Mick McCarthy came in the team would instantly change. But no manager can pick the players that every fan wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick_Turpin Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: I think we'll see Dawson shine more when some of the contracts run out in the summer and there isn't a shadow cast and something for him to be beaten with every game. I think Hutchinson is a better player than Pelupessy overall. I love his style. Drive. Passion. But I can see why the manager picks Joey though .... Hutchinson 2014-18 Pelupessy Jan- Nov 18 Apps Yellow Red Apps Yellow Red 92 41 5 30 4 0 Always fit and available. Because he always picks a settled side so being constantly available is really important Edited November 2, 2018 by rickygoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camffiti Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Managers say a lot of things ... Occasionally true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofbert2 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I like how the Chairman is full of crap, tells lies constantly, not to be trusted etc etc yet two of his ambiguous statements have sustained a very vocal group on here for what now amounts to years. "Promotion for the anniversary" and the more recent "promotion or big trouble" are now seemingly gospel amongst everything else he's ever said and have been used again and again to underpin negativity in an array of subject areas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulva Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 If Jos, and the club, continue to adopt this strategy of picking younger, academy produced, players, I look forward with anticipation to this strategy getting reflected favourably in the season ticket renewal prices due in early 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, poite said: You've misunderstood. I'm saying we need a different manager who will play our best players. If it means a few more losses (to convince chansiri to get shut of Jos) then it would be a short term acceptance so we can get someone else who can do better for our long term future. I don't disagree with playing our younger players rather than the older players. Long term yes that might be better. But for me it all comes back to the basic 'this season is up or bust' statement we received from the chairman. If that's the case then this season our long term future is absolutely dependant on the outcome of this season. So therefore we need our best players on that pitch now regardless whether they are in or out at the end of it I see your point more clearly now Corky! But in getting new manager don't we just delay the inevitable? That the old guard are on the way out and we need to look to the horizon. It's interesting you mention the Chairmans comments, I think they have hampered Jos almost as much as the injuries in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Just now, Mishowl said: Ok. Westwood your scapegoat. Answer 2:4 Westweod wasn’t the player last season that we fondly remember, this season he’s probably worse still. We need to face he was the past and every day that passes he gets worse while those replacing him get better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frastheowl Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) Luhukay has my full respect. For a manager, from a different country, with no affinity to this football club whatsoever, to come in and take a utterly selfless task of putting the long term future of the club over his own potential short term gains, is truly admirable. And I genuinely believe, he deserves a lot more respect for taking that view than he is currently getting from a fair percentage of the fanbase. Before a ball was kicked, it was very unlikely we would be challenging for promotion this season. Any Wednesdayite with an ounce of realism would agree with that statement. We were a team that did well to avoid getting dragged into a relegation scrap last season, and spent the entirety of the summer under a transfer embargo. This season was always going to be about steadying the ship. In all likelihood, deep down, Luhukay will perhaps know that playing Hutchinson, Abdi, Westwood etc. might well have produced slightly more consistent results. But, don't make these players out to be saviours. They are unreliable. They are past their best. They aren't the future. They'll all be off by the time next summer has been and gone. We are currently sat in the league as a mid table side. Closer to the playoff positions than the relegation zone (just). And that's what we'll be. If we have more good runs of form than bad, we'll finish upper mid table (with an outside chance of the playoffs), do the opposite, and we'll be lower mid table (with an outside chance of getting dragged into a relegation scrap). Do you think Luhukay would welcome this situation? Of course not. He didn't come here to spend three seasons scraping around the 2nd tier. But that's the position he finds himself in...and by taking this stance on certain (unreliable) players, will only benefit us long term (assuming the worst case scenario of relegation doesn't happen). I don't like criticising Carvalhal because at times under his leadership, we were an absolute joy to watch. But had he put even a fraction of the long term interests of the club at heart, like Luhukay is doing, dare I say, we wouldn't be having this very debate now. A manager, of course, will always be judged on results. But the bigger picture has to be acknowledged. Would I accept finishing in 14th place, having blooded several youngsters, brought in a couple of young loan players with a view to signing them over finishing in 9th place, with a few points more, but stifling youngsters progression so the unreliable injury wrecks (Westwood, Hutchinson, Abdi, Boyd, Hooper etc. etc.) could play in a handful of those games? YES. This season (and next) is all about recovering, and putting our house in order. What Luhukay is doing is selfless, noble and to be admired. Will he be able to see that through? Results will always dictate that. Edited November 2, 2018 by frastheowl 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulva Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Philb125 said: Answer 2:4 Westweod wasn’t the player last season that we fondly remember, this season he’s probably worse still. We need to face he was the past and every day that passes he gets worse while those replacing him get better. If you had to pick a goalkeeper tomorrow to save your life, would it be Westwood, Dawson or Wildsmith? Planning for the future may sound great, but in reality it could be Doncaster away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poite Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, sonofbert2 said: I like how the Chairman is full of crap, tells lies constantly, not to be trusted etc etc yet two of his ambiguous statements have sustained a very vocal group on here for what now amounts to years. "Promotion for the anniversary" and the more recent "promotion or big trouble" are now seemingly gospel amongst everything else he's ever said and have been used again and again to underpin negativity in an array of subject areas. The first one is an aim. Anyone who who thought that was a guarantee is an idiot. You could spend 600m and still not guarantee promotion. The second one is something I'd expect 'A top businessman' to understand and not be talking shuffle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philb125 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Just now, vulva said: If you had to pick a goalkeeper tomorrow to save your life, would it be Westwood, Dawson or Wildsmith? Planning for the future may sound great, but in reality it could be Doncaster away. Are we picking on reputation or current ability. If current ability it be Dawson - I have to believe trained professionals make better decisions than you or I. Now, if we’re picking on reputation I’d not pick Westwood either. I’d pick pressman. He’d save my life for sure. But that’s the thing, pressmans past it. So is Westwood. I loved them both dearly but they’re sadly not what they once were. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, poite said: Chairman: "I'll be honest. This season we need to get promoted otherwise we are screwed" Manager: "well this season I thought I'd use the younger players from the academy instead of the older players. We won't have a chance of promotion but it will be good for the team" Chairman: "oh ok then. Scrap what I said about us being screwed then. Sure it will be reyt" You say in jest, but that pretty much sums up the present situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owl999 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I’ve only given Jos my backing because I believed his hands were tied, especially after the substitution debacle against West Brom, now if what he says is true the sooner he is gone the better . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owler66 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, Philb125 said: We just had a manager who only thought about short term. It bread cliques in the squad, favourites, it led to a star player potentially having his career ended, it led to 14 first teamers getting injured in a crisis I’ve not seen at any other club in 35 years of supporting football, it led to demotivating second string and potentially causing star prospects to leave through not seeing and opportunity to progress. Oh how I long for the better days of short sighted managers. Yes you are right with all that but as I said in the modern game not many managers are afforded the patience of owners or fans if the losing streak gets up to around 6 matches, that's why the game is breeding more managers like Carlos. The first 18 months of Jack Charltons reign was pretty meh he wouldn't be afforded that time today 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobness Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, poite said: The second one is something I'd expect 'A top businessman' to understand and not be talking shuffle A "top businessman" would plan for inevitable. Regardless of whether DC's a top businessman or not, I hope he's been doing just that, because promotion was never going to happen this season. Further, to suggest promotion must be had, but then allow a manager to field youngsters with long termism in mind (which I totally agree with by the way), is sheer lunacy. Edited November 2, 2018 by bobness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, poite said: The first one is an aim. Anyone who who thought that was a guarantee is an idiot. You could spend 600m and still not guarantee promotion. The second one is something I'd expect 'A top businessman' to understand and not be talking shuffle I agree whole heartedly with that ................................................the trouble is a massive number of posters have used this "aim" as being either a guarantee or statement of fact to support various arguments in loads of threads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon barksdale Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I'm pretty sure you can plan for the future whilst also playing your best team in the present. Penney is our best left back so he plays , hutch is a better option than Kirby so he should play. A number of contracts are up for renewal, don't renew. Sign the youngsters up to longer contracts. To be fair it seems the latter is happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, owler66 said: Yes you are right with all that but as I said in the modern game not many managers are afforded the patience of owners or fans if the losing streak gets up to around 6 matches, that's why the game is breeding more managers like Carlos. The first 18 months of Jack Charltons reign was pretty meh he wouldn't be afforded that time today Great point. The game has become very short term and knee jerk. There are people who don't know a time when managers didn't come and go like travelling salesmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Just now, Avon barksdale said: I'm pretty sure you can plan for the future whilst also playing your best team in the present. None of us could agree what the best team is if we sat here from now till doomsday! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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