Just another toxic 'family'?

[heppers]

4 hours ago, BIG D said:

It's beginning to look as if the Chansiri project has run it's course tbh.

 

Yeah let's get back to those heady halcyon days of Dave Allen.

 

I for one am tired of this mediocrity.

[markowl]

33 minutes ago, fred mciver said:

 taking Radio Sheff commentaries from blind and sick.

Didn't that last for two games?

[fred mciver]

3 minutes ago, markowl said:

Didn't that last for two games?

Enough to destroy us in local community, especially with vulnerable groups.

 

Of course, it's evidence of character that's all important.

 

Still, raised a total of £72 extra dosh.

[SiJ]

It all feels rather rudderless right now.

 

Who knows, perhaps a pressing of the reset button in the summer might get us back on track, but it all feels a bit like wishful thinking. 

 

Do fear that our *plan* is a fantisful promotion to the Prem this season. That ain't happening unless something quite radical happens very soon.

 

It's all fine lines. A better display at Wembley or in the semi against Udders and we might be all sat here lauding what a good job Chansiri has done. As it is, he looks like the man who bet the house and had little plan if it all hit the fan.

 

The seeds of discord have been sown (they were a while ago now) and with the lack of transparency from the club, you fear the divisions will go deeper. Never a good thing when a club has lost the trust of parts of it's fanbase. 

[BIG D]

1 hour ago, heppers said:

 

Yeah let's get back to those heady halcyon days of Dave Allen.

 

I for one am tired of this mediocrity.

so you think we can recover under this set-up then?

[Sergeant Tibbs]

5 hours ago, room0035 said:

The problem we have is the manager is not here to develop the youth he is here to win games.

 

The chairman will ultimately be judge on what state the club is in when he leaves compared to when he arrived. If he left tomorrow we would have to say a worse state than when he arrived, a crippling debt that he is currently covering, an aging squad of over paid none performing or not allowed to perform players. A first team made up of players not performing or kids making their way in the game. The fan base is slowly being alienated because of the excessive pricing and general treatment- career Owls are finding other ways to spend their money when millions of pounds continue to be wasted with first team players not allowed to play and no explanation why this is happening.

 

The thing is though under Milan when we were mid-table or flirting with relegation we were happier because we felt part of the fabric of the club, we paid a fair price for the football on offer. Now we pay top 3 prices and have mid table football at best on offer. DC has made a rod for his own back because the last 4 years of mis-management of the club he cannot reduce prices because he needs the revenue.

 

I think the only way out for him and the club is to clear the decks - sell what assets we can and start again with a clean slate. Whether that is with a new manager and maybe chairman that's for those in charge to decide if they have the stomach to make this football club great again. 

Good post. Clearing the decks is the sensible option and hopefully this will be a lessons learnt exercise.

[Sergeant Tibbs]

5 hours ago, jamsandwich said:

this...

 

Schmeichal calling him "father" and all sort... Chansiri has no relationship like that at this club

My lad (and several others) q'd patiently before a home game to have their selfies with him. He seemed more interested in his tan end than smiling for those who he could an impact on. 

It was lost on my son and when he saw the photo he deleted it because DC looked disinterested.

It's a tough gig being compared to the guy at Leicester, but a smile usually goes a long way.

[S36 OWL]

1 hour ago, SiJ said:

It all feels rather rudderless right now.

 

Who knows, perhaps a pressing of the reset button in the summer might get us back on track, but it all feels a bit like wishful thinking. 

 

Do fear that our *plan* is a fantisful promotion to the Prem this season. That ain't happening unless something quite radical happens very soon.

 

It's all fine lines. A better display at Wembley or in the semi against Udders and we might be all sat here lauding what a good job Chansiri has done. As it is, he looks like the man who bet the house and had little plan if it all hit the fan.

 

The seeds of discord have been sown (they were a while ago now) and with the lack of transparency from the club, you fear the divisions will go deeper. Never a good thing when a club has lost the trust of parts of it's fanbase. 

 

Im praying DC has a back up plan ,because promotion aint going to happen. 

[hawksmore]

3 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I don't assume anything. I leave that to you. Who states as a fact in the opening gambit that players are being frozen out and that any toxicity is a one way street.

I've merely suggest that if you are correct that we'll shortly be hearing from the PFA about how they intend to combat this outrage.

 

I just don't know whether to take the word of forum members or the manager who works with them every single day...

Incidentally he says -:

 

"We have an old team and when the players get injured they  take more time to come back. There is nothing the players can do about that.

The reality is we have a squad with players who were injured last season but also now.

 

When you have an intensive programme and play three games in a week, we must see how they are. It is why in the last months I have changed players.

It is not because I like to do that but I must see how the players are physically.

When the physical side is a risk, we must change.

It is not that I like to change.

 

We must change when the risk of a player getting injured again in the next game is high.

Our medical team and sports science team give me everything every day. The reality is we have to sometimes make decision on whether players can play or not.

I know outside that people sometimes do not understand decisions but that is why I don't always give explanations for my changes.

 

For one player it maybe tactical situation. For one it maybe in the formation we play in or that the player who has played in the game before or two games before is physically in a risk situation. So then we must protect him from maybe getting injured again.

 

 

 

Strawman argument is claiming that people are being frozen out left right and centre without providing a single thread of evidence other than the fact some players aren't playing.

With a 38 man squad in total-  they can't all play.

 

Neilson hasn't played for a few weeks. Is he being frozen out?

Or just not selected....

 

 

 

 

Absolutley not. Our ticket prices, to my mind, are outrageous for second division football.

And I'd said that from the off.

 

Are you really saying that senior key players are not being frozen out? Are you really that far gone?! 

 

And you then quote Jos and take his word as gospel on such matters. Hey who am i to try and convince you, i'm not trying to do that, merely highlighting that something ain't right, as i say, i am glad you are in a happy place right now and see no issue with so many very capable players being left out of the match day squad for the likes of kids like Kirby. 

 

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that things are not right with regards to a number of players, you do need to have a sense of realism about the situation at the club though and able to apply a minuscule amount of critical thinking. 

 

 

[matthefish2002]

Why do people think if we won at Wembley in 2016 we would not have any of the present problems?

Quite probable with what has gone off since we would have been relegated first season and spunked all the money and more on a load of under performing, injury prone players leaving us in a worst position then now.

 

(Although given the choice would have took winning that game and took our chances).

Edited October 30, 2018 by matthefish2002

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

We really are a major shambles

And the silence from the top is deafening.

[OWLERTON GHOST]

2 hours ago, BowOwl said:

Forest, Brum, Blackburn, Villa, Derby, Ipswich, Coventry, Sunderland - Big city clubs with a loyal and old fanbase.

Blackburn (has a Cathedral )

But still a town ..

And it's located in Lower Darwen which is a small Mill town and part of Blackburn ...

Ipswich is a town (no Cathedral )and has tried and failed many times to be a city .

All loyal fanbases agreed ...

But still can't hold a candle to the city of Hillsborough 

 

[Lord Snooty]

32 minutes ago, hawksmore said:

 

Are you really saying that senior key players are not being frozen out? Are you really that far gone?! 

 

And you then quote Jos and take his word as gospel on such matters. Hey who am i to try and convince you, i'm not trying to do that, merely highlighting that something ain't right, as i say, i am glad you are in a happy place right now and see no issue with so many very capable players being left out of the match day squad for the likes of kids like Kirby. 

 

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that things are not right with regards to a number of players, you do need to have a sense of realism about the situation at the club though and able to apply a minuscule amount of critical thinking. 

 

 

I'm merely saying that frozen out seems to but very much the modern  buzz phrase that seems to be in vogue these days to somehow add a sense of huge drama and gravitas   to what is little more than players not getting picked. 

 

Why they aren't being selected is up to the manager. 

He's offered reasons. Some people believe them, some don't. 

But the ones saying they don't aren't providing any factual evidence to refute what he is saying. 

 

If people have hard evidence then by all means let's hear it. 

I'd risk an evening walk to the paper shop in person to by the copy of the sensational reveal. 

But so far no one has offered anything.

 

If relying on first person evidence makes me far gone then I must be far gone. 

Do you have any evidence yourself?

 

I'd be only too happy to hold up my hands in sincere apology if perhaps for an example a tape recording or a wobbly Roger Cook  style piece of undercover filming  could be produced - whereby DC is heard to tell the manager that he'll get a kick in the goolies if he picks Boyd because if he does he's due a bonus. 

Or even Jos telling Katrien to get shut of Westwood forthwith because his under towel praying before training is doing his bonce in.

 

I take Jos' word for what it is. The man who deals with the players and personalities in the squad on a daily basis.

 

I take his word because there is no other word to take because apart from OT, twitter and Facebook users doing nothing but bandy about a vague 'frozen out' with literally nothing to back it up other than the none appearance of players. 

 

Are people saying Neilson has been frozen out because he's not been selected.  Or just accepting that the manager isn't picking him?

 

I'm quite realistic about the situation at the club.  

The manager has come in with a remit to lower the age of the playing staff, lower the wage bill, wheel and deal in the loan market and get enough good results to ensure we don't sink like to the third division. 

 

To that end, I think that is quite clearly what he is attempting do. 

As would any manager give  the job.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Lord Snooty

[kingsidney]

The only way Chansiri is getting out of this league is if we’re relegated. 

 

The mans ego is too big to admit he hasn’t got a clue. 

[hawksmore]

14 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I'm merely saying that frozen out seems to but very much the modern  buzz phrase that seems to be in vogue these days to somehow add a sense of huge drama and gravitas   to what is little more than players not getting picked. 

 

Why they aren't being selected is up to the manager. 

He's offered reasons. Some people believe them, some don't. 

But the ones saying they don't aren't providing any factual evidence to refute what he is saying. 

 

If people have hard evidence then by all means let's hear it. 

I'd risk an evening walk to the paper shop in person to by the copy of the sensational reveal. 

But so far no one has offered anything.

 

If relying on first person evidence makes me far gone then I must be far gone. 

Do you have any evidence yourself?

 

I'd be only too happy to hold up my hands in sincere apology if perhaps for an example a tape recording or a wobbly Roger Cook  style piece of undercover filming  could be produced - whereby DC is heard to tell the manager that he'll get a kick in the goolies if he picks Boyd because if he does he's due a bonus. 

Or even Jos telling Katrien to get shut of Westwood forthwith because his under towel praying before training is doing his bonce in.

 

I take Jos' word for what it is. The man who deals with the players and personalities in the squad on a daily basis.

 

I take his word because there is no other word to take because apart from OT, twitter and Facebook users doing nothing but bandy about a vague 'frozen out' with literally nothing to back it up other than the none appearance of players. 

 

Are people saying Neilson has been frozen out because he's not been selected.  Or just accepting that the manager isn't picking him?

 

I'm quite realistic about the situation at the club.  

The manager has come in with a remit to lower the age of the playing staff, lower the wage bill, wheel and deal in the loan market and get enough good results to ensure we don't sink like to the third division. 

 

To that end, I think that is quite clearly what he is attempting do. 

As would any manager give  the job.

 

 

 

So you won't see there being any problem until it's printed in the Sheffield Star. As i say, your choice how you choose to see the goings on at the club. I'm pretty sure many don't see things so blissful as you. 

 

The real test of intelligence is being able to discuss the real matter at hand, rather than an attempt to reduce it to a terminology issue. That adds nothing of value to the forum.

 

Comparing Neilson not being played over the likes of Lees, Pudil, Hector and even Thorniley is clutching at straws, it is not comparable to Kirby being picked over Hutch, Boyd, Jones etc.

 

I think our owner disagrees with the remit you have just made up for Jos too. Now what were you saying about hard evidence... oh yes, maybe you should check what was said at the last fans forum, by the owner, before making things up. The very thing you are so intent on dismissing. 

 

Now i am happy to keep discussing this further, but i'd request you refrain from descending further in to the child like petulant tone. Let's have an adult like discussion over the child like retorts you fired back above. Lastly, if you really see no problem with certain players not getting near the playing squad and genuinely think it is nothing more than Jos' preference, then so be it. But that's a lot of players wh ave fallen by the way side. 

 

Who knows, maybe it's Jos fault, he just cannot get the best out of experienced ex premier league players such as Jones and Boyd or previous seasons favourites in Westwood and Hutch, it's not plausible to just think performance and ability wise they're just dropped off a cliff. It is unfair to level that at Jos.

 

 

[East Yorks Owl]

The whole situation is very tricky. Maybe Jos would love to disclose that some of the player omissions are for financial rather than footballing reasons, but in all honesty is that really something the club should be sharing with the wider world?  DC is walking on a bit of a tightrope; on the one hand a bit of honesty might go down well with fans, but on the other it may well weaken his hand in future financial negotiations. 

 

This seasons beginning to feel like the last in the sense that we need to continue down the road of reducing the wage bill as contracts expire. Unfortunately from a fans perspective it all quickly becomes very demoralising as it feels like we are just running down the clock rather than trying to progress. 

 

DC has backed himself into a corner and I’m not too sure what he can do to turn it around. My gut tells me the current POTG prices are a real own goal, both financially and from a fans morale view point. Perhaps he should consider reducing prices to get some bums on seats? I agree with others that we need DC to turn it around because I can’t see other suitors wanting to take the club on.

[Lord Snooty]

11 minutes ago, hawksmore said:

 

So you won't see there being any problem until it's printed in the Sheffield Star. As i say, your choice how you choose to see the goings on at the club. I'm pretty sure many don't see things so blissful as you. 

 

Not just the Star.

Anyone.

Anyone in here. 

Anyone anywhere.

Show me something salient. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, hawksmore said:

 

The real test of intelligence is being able to discuss the real matter at hand, rather than an attempt to reduce it to a terminology issue. That adds nothing of value to the forum.

 

Tell the people who say frozen out and go off alarming  everytime their favourite player isn't picked.

 

11 minutes ago, hawksmore said:

 

Comparing Neilson not being played over the likes of Lees, Pudil, Hector and even Thorniley is clutching at straws, it is not comparable to Kirby being picked over Hutch, Boyd, Jones etc.

 

Why is it?

Lees, Hector and Thorniley have all made mistakes in recent weeks.

Why isn't Neilson getting a sniff?

 

 

11 minutes ago, hawksmore said:

 

I think our owner disagrees with the remit you have just made up for Jos too. Now what were you saying about hard evidence... oh yes, maybe you should check what was said at the last fans forum, by the owner, before making things up. The very thing you are so intent on dismissing. 

 

The owner said we needed to be promoted or we're in the mire.

I don't for a moment believe this team is capable of promotion for what it's worth.

 

He also has given the manager other targets to hit within that. The ones which the manager has mentioned in his first press conference and many more since.

 

 

11 minutes ago, hawksmore said:

 

Now i am happy to keep discussing this further, but i'd request you refrain from descending further in to the child like petulant tone. Let's have an adult like discussion over the child like retorts you fired back above. Lastly, if you really see no problem with certain players not getting near the playing squad and genuinely think it is nothing more than Jos' preference, then so be it. But that's a lot of players wh ave fallen by the way side. 

 

Petulant tone?  Sorry corky. It must be catching. 

These pages have been awash with petulance since we were bested by QPR. Infact there's been avalanche of petulant mumping and ragkng over recent weeks. Everyday swathes of threads with rattles and dummies being spat. 

 

I was actually thinking earlier that I might be lowering myself to the standards of others,  and when that happens it's always very much time to call in the boat.

 

11 minutes ago, hawksmore said:

 

Who knows, maybe it's Jos fault, he just cannot get the best out of experienced ex premier league players such as Jones and Boyd or previous seasons favourites in Westwood and Hutch, it's not plausible to just think performance and ability wise they're just dropped off a cliff. It is unfair to level that at Jos.

 

 

I'd say that all were dropping off a cliff under the previous incumbent Mr Carvalhal.

Including the goalkeeper.

 

Boyd has been a shadow since day one at Preston.

I'll not blame that on Jos.

 

Jones' good games I can count on 3 fingers.

 

Hutchinson I'm struggling to remember his last good outing.

 

And even the keeper was well away from his best form of 2015 by last season.

(Not to a level where he wouldn't be my numbers one- but I don't pick the team.)

 

[OWL1969]

Not read the whole of this thread but I can quite safely say the way fans are treated dismays me much more than the current inadequacies of the team. 

I'm given good reason to believe this also applies to part time staff who aren't treated as well as previous seasons and are also just seen as another number. Does this go down as far as the players? 

 

Don't know whether it is related that we have a overseas chairman, an overseas manager, a southern based CEO,  a southern based stadium manager non of whom really have understanding of swfc or indeed the local area in general. 

Surely there must be somebody in Sheffield who supports Wednesday who has qualifications to manage the Stadium?

 

I look at that horrible lot down the road, who have Sheffield United focused people in nearly every position and  grudgingly I have to admit I envy em, not just the team but the way they look after their fans and especially how they all seem to be in it together from fans, through to players and 50% of the chairmanship, with people like Tony Currie (another one of them)  at the heart of it.

 

We had a former playing legend working here and got rid of him, probably because he stuck up for his kid (don't know the ins and outs of it but I'm sure there's more than meets the eye). 

 

I know the performances don't help but I've seen us with far worse teams but never have I felt more distanced from my club than I currently do. 

I just want the club to listen to the fans and give out the impression that they care about us. Alas very unlikely.

[lt109]

5 hours ago, OWL1969 said:

Not read the whole of this thread but I can quite safely say the way fans are treated dismays me much more than the current inadequacies of the team. 

I'm given good reason to believe this also applies to part time staff who aren't treated as well as previous seasons and are also just seen as another number. Does this go down as far as the players? 

 

Don't know whether it is related that we have a overseas chairman, an overseas manager, a southern based CEO,  a southern based stadium manager non of whom really have understanding of swfc or indeed the local area in general. 

Surely there must be somebody in Sheffield who supports Wednesday who has qualifications to manage the Stadium?

 

I look at that horrible lot down the road, who have Sheffield United focused people in nearly every position and  grudgingly I have to admit I envy em, not just the team but the way they look after their fans and especially how they all seem to be in it together from fans, through to players and 50% of the chairmanship, with people like Tony Currie (another one of them)  at the heart of it.

 

We had a former playing legend working here and got rid of him, probably because he stuck up for his kid (don't know the ins and outs of it but I'm sure there's more than meets the eye). 

 

I know the performances don't help but I've seen us with far worse teams but never have I felt more distanced from my club than I currently do. 

I just want the club to listen to the fans and give out the impression that they care about us. Alas very unlikely.

 

this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[McRightSide]

Recorrection is always difficult, and nothing is more real than what’s happening at the present moment, therefore you will always feel ‘less connected’ or ‘like we’ve never need this bad’ or ‘that’s the worst I’ve seen us play’

 

Our brains help us to overcome trauma by helping us forget exactly what it felt like, it’s how people are able to have more than 1 child...

 

Secondly, every pro club in England with a large squad is freezing someone out. Don’t kid yourself that we are special. We might have a policy around youth which makes it more about a demographic than salary or performance, but the reality is that the manager executes the policy

 

Its a double edged sword. Want to see the kids coming through? And then getting real opportunities to contribute? Well, that’s at the expense of more established and better players.

 

Its an investment. That takes time & it may or may not pay off