Young team needs support right now

[billyblack]

10 hours ago, Eastern said:

I can see what his plan is. Young players, young squad future.

 

but are fans willing to wait 3-4 seasons for frutiation?

Cant wait for dinner most of them

[Roy Of The Roasters]

10 hours ago, Eastern said:

I can see what his plan is. Young players, young squad future.

 

but are fans willing to wait 3-4 seasons for frutiation?

 

Unfortunately, some fans aren’t even willing to wait 3-4 weeks…….

 

In a funny way, Jos hasn’t helped himself with our form up until the international break – with the club in the play-off places and a decent run of form against fancied teams, I think some of our fans were starting to believe that we’re better than we actually are.

 

Reality check people – we are not promotion candidates. Not this season, probably not next. We have our hands tied by FFP rules. We’ve lost players who we can’t replace and we’ve had to plug the gaps with loanees and youth team graduates. And on top of that, a good proportion of our squad are massively injury prone and seem to be either permanently crocked or – even if they’re not – need to have their playing time carefully managed. None of this is going to go away any time soon and if we have to sell one or more of our best players then things may even get more difficult.

 

So maybe we need to stop thinking short term, accept that it’s going to be a difficult season with setbacks and disappointing results, understand that the squad needs a top to bottom overhaul and judge Jos Luhaky on what he can achieve over two seasons rather than just two games.

[gurujuan]

Sounds like excuses to me Look at our squad compared to United’s, but still they are challenging at the top. The biggest difference, well that comes from the coach. Wilder has them on the front foot going at teams, letting opponents worry about their quality. Jos on the other hand, is the complete opposite, and as a consequence, rarely gets the best out of our creative players

[torres]

3 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Sounds like excuses to me Look at our squad compared to United’s, but still they are challenging at the top. The biggest difference, well that comes from the coach. Wilder has them on the front foot going at teams, letting opponents worry about their quality. Jos on the other hand, is the complete opposite, and as a consequence, rarely gets the best out of our creative players

 

Finally some sense!!

 

 

[SiJ]

Pretty sure the only players in that Starting XI under 25 were Dawson, Baker and Onomah.

 

[Roy Of The Roasters]

36 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Sounds like excuses to me Look at our squad compared to United’s, but still they are challenging at the top.

 

Sorry, but this idea we’ve got a great squad, a significantly better squad than the scrubbers at S2 is a delusion. We haven’t.

 

Does the Blunts squad have a similar proportion of perma-crocks to us BTW?

Edited October 24, 2018 by Roy Of The Roasters

[gurujuan]

55 minutes ago, Roy Of The Roasters said:

 

Sorry, but this idea we’ve got a great squad, a significantly better squad than the scrubbers at S2 is a delusion. We haven’t.

 

Does the Blunts squad have a similar proportion of perma-crocks to us BTW?

I’m not being dismissive of their quality, but even with our injuries, we can call on players a level above anything they have 

Their success, and our mediocrity is mainly down to the tactics employed by the respective coaches 

Wilder has them on the front foot from the off, moving the ball at pace, but always looking to create We on the other hand, despite a midfield made up of Onomah, Pelupessy, Bannan and Reach, create virtually nothing We move the ball from side to side, before either going all the way back to the keeper, or simply lifting it into the middle

[Bouncing Owl]

Pigs play a 3-4-1-2 system and they all know what they are doing. They’ve played this system for a long time. Their centre halves are all comfortable on the ball to make it work. They have very good footballers at the back. They play an attacking brand of football and they go to win games. 

 

We don’t know our best team or system and we haven’t an identifiable brand of football. We are a bit of a mish mash and we worry about the opposition too much in my opinion. I’m behind Jos and he’s had a lot on but he needs to sort this sharpish. It’s down to the manager/coaching staff to sort.

[gurujuan]

Yes, our predicament is down to the way we’re asked to play

[hirstys_achilles]

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

I’m not being dismissive of their quality, but even with our injuries, we can call on players a level above anything they have 

Their success, and our mediocrity is mainly down to the tactics employed by the respective coaches 

Wilder has them on the front foot from the off, moving the ball at pace, but always looking to create We on the other hand, despite a midfield made up of Onomah, Pelupessy, Bannan and Reach, create virtually nothing We move the ball from side to side, before either going all the way back to the keeper, or simply lifting it into the middle

This is typical of the mentality of the supporters living in the past. united finished way above us last season and would have beaten us twice if not for Jos coming in and pudil having game of his life at the lane. Yet some say we have a better quality squad. Fact is the league does not lie. Its the only measure of quality in football. Fans who dismiss league position over there own system of judging team quality are in cloud cuckoo land. Its like saying lets ignore 42 games a season when every team plays each other and results counted up in a points system over a deluded fans opinion who watch just 1 team a week play against different opposition. Crazy !! Surely quality is defined as having a squad able to win as many games as possible over a season and the league table is the 100% only the barometer capable of measuring a teams quality. This seems patronising to me but for the deluded they need reminding the aim of each match is to win by scoring more goals than the opposition. Points are awarded on results. More points for a better result. No bonus points are awarded for looking pretty, best hair cut or fastest car. So seriously can anyone tell me how they conclude we have more quality than united.

[room0035]

15 hours ago, hirstys_achilles said:

No is the answer. But the fact is that we have no other option with the mess cc left us with. Aging injury prone highly paid players on long term contracts is cc legacy that Jos has to sort out. 

The mess is not just CC though is it, he coaches the team it those above him that signed the players up to silly contracts, paid fees way over the top and allowed other clubs to hold us to ransom on fees. 

 

Its not CC that ha alienated a large portion of the fans base by charging prices they simply cannot afford, or over charge the corporate packages then been surprised when no one buys into it.

 

Yes CC is to blame for the coaching staff he brought in and the way he prepared thew players but I don't buy into this crap that he picked all the players he wanted. Tell me CC CV has never ventured into anywhere in this country at what point would he had come across Barry Bannan who was then playing in the Palace reserves or Steven Fletcher who has but for one season played all his career in England and Scotland or Jordan Rhodes who we are told was bought for the fans - how is this CC fault.

 

 

[hirstys_achilles]

15 hours ago, Mystic Neg said:

Even more reason to get behind them. We are all up against it

How can that comment be neg'd. The players don't set the prices for admission (directly). The young players on lower pay are even less culpable. Buy neging the post I can only assume you feel the opposite to the post. Which is fans should slate the team for paying more than average for admission etc. I just dont get it. Unless this is your idea of supporting swfc and enjoy shouting abuse and negative comments at games such as your all rubbish cus it cost me 30 quid to get in, regardless of result.

[Ante's Bubbly]

15 hours ago, shezzas left peg said:

Its all so easy to just sit here and blame Carlos, but D. C signed the deals and allowed Carlos to get us into this mess. He also left him to carry on digging us into the hole, then blamed us for it all insisting we made him sign Rhodes and that we were to blame for his buddies short comings. 

 

But SLP, surely Chansiri has spent so much of his own money on Wednesday, he is our saviour not the cause!

 

Sorry mate, only kidding. I am totally with you there. The man has blindly wasted a lot of his money, which quite frankly I would not care a throw about, if it didn't mean that he had led us into a cul-de-sac, but wasting all of OUR money too, is a crime that he really should consider putting right.

 

I am not sure how we can generate any extra revenue, but since Chansiri put all the ticket and club merchandise up through the roof, before he even bothered investing in a team worth the extra ticket prices, since he got us to pay three or more years worth of season ticket money in advance and since he tried starting the 1867 club to squeeze extra money out of anybody daft enough to invest in a man and his cronies, who have already shown us that they know nothing about running a football club, other than chucking more money at it than is actually necessary. Maybe it is about time he does the one honourable thing and sell some shares to fans, giving back the shares that the fans owned originally and were given up so that Mandaric and the Chansiri, could play at being Chairmen/owners of our club. Until we get a real say in how our club is run, everything else that is done with the Wednesday team, ground, club, name etc will be completely out of our control and in the total control of a bloke who in footballing terms, still doesn't and probably never will, know his arsenal from his elbow!

 

 

 

 

[Ante's Bubbly]

Just now, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

But SLP, surely Chansiri has spent so much of his own money on Wednesday, he is our saviour not the cause!

 

Sorry mate, only kidding. I am totally with you there. The man has blindly wasted a lot of his money, which quite frankly I would not care a throw about, if it didn't mean that he had led us into a cul-de-sac, but wasting all of OUR money too, is a crime that he really should consider putting right.

 

I am not sure how we can generate any extra revenue, but since Chansiri put all the ticket and club merchandise up through the roof, before he even bothered investing in a team worth the extra ticket prices, since he got us to pay three or more years worth of season ticket money in advance and since he tried starting the 1867 club to squeeze extra money out of anybody daft enough to invest in a man and his cronies, who have already shown us that they know nothing about running a football club, other than chucking more money at it than is actually necessary. Maybe it is about time he does the one honourable thing and sell some shares to fans, giving back the shares that the fans owned originally and were given up so that Mandaric and the Chansiri, could play at being Chairmen/owners of our club. Until we get a real say in how our club is run, everything else that is done with the Wednesday team, ground, club, name etc will be completely out of our control and in the total control of a bloke who in footballing terms, still doesn't and probably never will, know his arsenal from his elbow!

 

 

 

 

 

I cannot believe that the word T0SS in my post has been changed to "throw"! The expression comes from not being bothered, as though it were just a t0ss of coin, nothing to do with knocking one out! 

 

Good heavens, what a granny state we live in!

 

[hirstys_achilles]

3 minutes ago, room0035 said:

The mess is not just CC though is it, he coaches the team it those above him that signed the players up to silly contracts, paid fees way over the top and allowed other clubs to hold us to ransom on fees. 

 

Its not CC that ha alienated a large portion of the fans base by charging prices they simply cannot afford, or over charge the corporate packages then been surprised when no one buys into it.

 

Yes CC is to blame for the coaching staff he brought in and the way he prepared thew players but I don't buy into this crap that he picked all the players he wanted. Tell me CC CV has never ventured into anywhere in this country at what point would he had come across Barry Bannan who was then playing in the Palace reserves or Steven Fletcher who has but for one season played all his career in England and Scotland or Jordan Rhodes who we are told was bought for the fans - how is this CC fault.

 

 

The prices are relative to the money dc spends. We still in ffp doodoo with current prices. Every bloody signing is for the fans. DC did what CC recommended. The agents tempt CC with players. Who are you to say what CC saw or didn't. If CC didnt spend all the money on poor over age injury prone players DC would not have increased prices. As for the exec boxes etc they should pay more for the experience. DC included other things in the package to balance the increase. If CC had delivered on his promise to us and DC all the exec boxes would be fully booked in advance. Slating DC for putting the money where his mouth is and doing what you are moaning about (putting hand in pocket) is no reason to slate him. He should be thanked by fans for spending all that money (his money) on getting us out of debt and trying to get us promoted. DC has spent as much as ffp will allow. He not skint, he would if allowed be willing to spend the same amount again to get us up. DC has admitted to mistakes. He acknowledges not everyone will agree with his decisions. Its is totally correct to say CC could not with all the money he given achieve what he promised. How can anyone argue that CC is not to blame ????? 

[hirstys_achilles]

15 hours ago, theowlsman said:

The manager’s put them in there, it’s his job to protect them. If he can’t, it doesn’t say a great deal about his qualities as a manager.

I think Jos changes the players more than he likes and certainly more than the fans would like with the thought mainly on protecting our younger players. His quality as a manager is impossible to judge when his options are so limited. QPR is a prime example as only 2 youth players started and look at the performance. 

[gurujuan]

57 minutes ago, hirstys_achilles said:

This is typical of the mentality of the supporters living in the past. united finished way above us last season and would have beaten us twice if not for Jos coming in and pudil having game of his life at the lane. Yet some say we have a better quality squad. Fact is the league does not lie. Its the only measure of quality in football. Fans who dismiss league position over there own system of judging team quality are in cloud cuckoo land. Its like saying lets ignore 42 games a season when every team plays each other and results counted up in a points system over a deluded fans opinion who watch just 1 team a week play against different opposition. Crazy !! Surely quality is defined as having a squad able to win as many games as possible over a season and the league table is the 100% only the barometer capable of measuring a teams quality. This seems patronising to me but for the deluded they need reminding the aim of each match is to win by scoring more goals than the opposition. Points are awarded on results. More points for a better result. No bonus points are awarded for looking pretty, best hair cut or fastest car. So seriously can anyone tell me how they conclude we have more quality than united.

No living in the past from me, I’ve seen what Wilder has done at United. Prior to them coming up, having not really seen that much of them, maybe I was a little dismissive of their chances of causing a stir in this league. Actually saw them give Malaga the run around out in Spain, with a brand of quick forward passing. They were mightily impressive, and I said on here at the time, don’t underestimate them. Wilder has done a fantastic job, with a mixed bag of players.

Thats my point though, the turnaround in their fortunes has been down to Wilder’s tactics, and getting his players to buy into what he wants them to do. Has Jos done that for us? Has he established a pattern of play, which all the players have bought into? Contrary to what some believe, I don’t believe we are a better side than United, as you say, the league table doesn’t back that up. What I do think though, is that we have better individuals than United, but they are hamstrung by the negative tactics the coach employs. Statistics show that we are the worst side when it comes to creating penalty box chances. How can that be the case, when we can call on the likes of Onomah, Bannan, Matias, Reach and Forestieri in the creative department? Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the possession game, but it has to have an end product. United also play a passing game, but they are encouraged to always maintain forward momentum. Last night, QPR had considerably less possession, but they were always looking to play it forward into areas that could hurt us. We just go sideways and backwards

Edited October 24, 2018 by gurujuan

[Hookowl]

21 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

I cannot believe that the word T0SS in my post has been changed to "throw"! The expression comes from not being bothered, as though it were just a t0ss of coin, nothing to do with knocking one out! 

 

Good heavens, what a granny state we live in!

 

 

[hirstys_achilles]

15 hours ago, metallicowl said:

I think 2000 Wednesday fans there is showing full support.

Too many swaps and changes are killing any sense of teamwork dropping Lees tonight was a big mistake

Dropping Lees looks a bad idea but the implications of standing by Jos's comments of no favourites are massive for the future. If Lees had played Jos would seem to be saying that if you have a really bad game and are showing poor form generally you will only keep your place if you are a favourite. Jos had to drop Lees. Blaming Jos for dropping him is mad. It is the player who has lost his form. The manager has to do whats best to get his form back and show others that he has the balls to do as he says.

[room0035]

14 minutes ago, hirstys_achilles said:

The prices are relative to the money dc spends. We still in ffp doodoo with current prices. Every bloody signing is for the fans. DC did what CC recommended. The agents tempt CC with players. Who are you to say what CC saw or didn't. If CC didnt spend all the money on poor over age injury prone players DC would not have increased prices. As for the exec boxes etc they should pay more for the experience. DC included other things in the package to balance the increase. If CC had delivered on his promise to us and DC all the exec boxes would be fully booked in advance. Slating DC for putting the money where his mouth is and doing what you are moaning about (putting hand in pocket) is no reason to slate him. He should be thanked by fans for spending all that money (his money) on getting us out of debt and trying to get us promoted. DC has spent as much as ffp will allow. He not skint, he would if allowed be willing to spend the same amount again to get us up. DC has admitted to mistakes. He acknowledges not everyone will agree with his decisions. Its is totally correct to say CC could not with all the money he given achieve what he promised. How can anyone argue that CC is not to blame ????? 

 

A well run club is not us, we have someone in charge who in 4 years is still making the same mistake and if you truly believe everything that has gone wrong with the club is down to Carlos then I am happy only you live in that world.

 

Did Carlos hold a gun to DC head and tell him which players to hire - when DC himself said in previous interviews he used advisers on everything (Doyes) and only when he was covering his arse recently did he blame it all on the manager. I don't know of many manager in football currently that sit down with players agree fees, contracts and the length of contracts i thought that was the job of the director of football or if you don't have one the PERSON IN CHARGE OF THE CLUB, I stand corrected I didn't know Carlos did all this and DC is an innocent party in everything that has happen.

 

As for the Exec boxes at £48,000 compare to the boxes at the lane for £19,000 you don't have to be completely stupid to guess, which ground a company not a fan a company is going to use for corporate entertaining. You cannot sell something for twice the price and expect people to pay it because your a football team.