Lees why...

[Stan Dupowls]

Everyone needs to calm down. 

Hes a top defender at this level. The Tactics are wrong! It was wrong with CC and it’s wrong now!

Guess what Tom has NEVER been, nor was Loovens, nor is Pudil.....non are “play it out from the back” type players, but Tom can defend all day long. 

This crappy system ends up dragging Bannan back to pick the ball up and we need Bannan further forward. Only time it worked is when an in form Hutch shielded the defence then plays a short pass to Bannan or others....all the last days of CC the ball gravitated back to Loovens and mistakes happened. 

Weak team mates and a junior Goalie make him too responsible- no need for it! Just let him be a team defender with no captain shackle.

Loads of issues tonight but a correctly played Tom Lees is not one of them.

 

[Luke]

If lees was captain of titanic when it hit the iceberg he'd have been to scared to say anything and just hid in his cabin 

 

I've heard more noise from a graveyard

[StudentOwl]

Just now, Stan Dupowls said:

Everyone needs to calm down. 

Hes a top defender at this level. The Tactics are wrong! It was wrong with CC and it’s wrong now!

Guess what Tom has NEVER been, nor was Loovens, nor is Pudil.....non are “play it out from the back” type players, but Tom can defend all day long. 

This crappy system ends up dragging Bannan back to pick the ball up and we need Bannan further forward. Only time it worked is when an in form Hutch shielded the defence then plays a short pass to Bannan or others....all the last days of CC the ball gravitated back to Loovens and mistakes happened. 

Weak team mates and a junior Goalie make him too responsible- no need for it! Just let him be a team defender with no captain shackle.

Loads of issues tonight but a correctly played Tom Lees is not one of them.

 

No, he isn't. He sure as hell can't tackle. 

[s6 owl]

1 minute ago, Stan Dupowls said:

Everyone needs to calm down. 

Hes a top defender at this level. The Tactics are wrong! It was wrong with CC and it’s wrong now!

Guess what Tom has NEVER been, nor was Loovens, nor is Pudil.....non are “play it out from the back” type players, but Tom can defend all day long. 

This crappy system ends up dragging Bannan back to pick the ball up and we need Bannan further forward. Only time it worked is when an in form Hutch shielded the defence then plays a short pass to Bannan or others....all the last days of CC the ball gravitated back to Loovens and mistakes happened. 

Weak team mates and a junior Goalie make him too responsible- no need for it! Just let him be a team defender with no captain shackle.

Loads of issues tonight but a correctly played Tom Lees is not one of them.

 

Based on what? 

[109Waddle]

1 hour ago, owler66 said:

I think Tom Lee's can tonight 

Win as a team, lose as a team

[Otley Owl]

He had a mare for the goal. Name any other times he's let us down. Fair enough, he looks better with certain other players. He's captaining a side with young players brought through this season. Alright he might not be the ideal captain, but what are the other options? Loads of hysterical nonsense on this thread. 

[Otley Owl]

2 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

No, he isn't. He sure as hell can't tackle. 

Bizarre. I've seen loads of great posts from you, but this is genuinely bizarre. 

[Taximark]

2 minutes ago, Stan Dupowls said:

Everyone needs to calm down. 

Hes a top defender at this level. The Tactics are wrong! It was wrong with CC and it’s wrong now!

Guess what Tom has NEVER been, nor was Loovens, nor is Pudil.....non are “play it out from the back” type players, but Tom can defend all day long. 

This crappy system ends up dragging Bannan back to pick the ball up and we need Bannan further forward. Only time it worked is when an in form Hutch shielded the defence then plays a short pass to Bannan or others....all the last days of CC the ball gravitated back to Loovens and mistakes happened. 

Weak team mates and a junior Goalie make him too responsible- no need for it! Just let him be a team defender with no captain shackle.

Loads of issues tonight but a correctly played Tom Lees is not one of them.

 

I dont agree, your only as good as your last game and hes been shitall season pal, hes not a leader and fuckknows why jos game him the armband.

Yes the system isnt helping him but he needs to help him self, see mboros second goal for someone who shitshimself on ball.

Since he singed the long contract hes been wowful.

[OwlofOliveGrove]

1 hour ago, alanharper said:

At least Lees' error takes the attention off Thorniley costing us the first goal. Criminal to let the ball bounce in that position, just clear it ffs.  

 

Absolutely, Thorniley screamed bloody murder for Penney to leave the ball and then went nowhere near the bounce!

 

Defending 101. NEVER LET IT BOUNCE

[StudentOwl]

5 minutes ago, Hotten Owl said:

Bizarre. I've seen loads of great posts from you, but this is genuinely bizarre. 

 

21 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

He has the heart of a mouse when you want your captain to have the heart of a lion. 

I remember a couple of seasons ago, during our first game under CC's reign at home to Bristol City, there was the most amazing stat that neither Loovens nor Lees made a tackle the entire game. Which you can argue is an execution of superb marshalling. What worries me, however, is that he can't tackle. At all. He's actually ruddy cack at it and he indeed cacks himself whenever anyone runs at him. Want proof? Look at their first goal today. Look at West Brom's second the other week. 

 

"Oh but that's not fair," I hear some Owlstalkers cry, "you can't take two isolated incidents". You're right, I can't. According to whoscored, he has made a total of 11 tackles this season in 13 Championship appearances. As a running total, that is lower than: Penney, Thorniley, Pelupessy, Bannan, Baker and Forestieri. If you look at it as an average per 90 minutes, that is lower than: van Aken, Fox, Baker, Penney, Onomah, Thorniley, Forestieri, Pelupessy, Pudil, Hector, Nuhiu, Matias, Bannan, Palmer and Hutchinson, and the same per 90 minutes as Adam Reach.  

 

It's not lack of ability that means he's so down that list. It's lack of guts.

Despite not being the tallest CB in the world, he's a relative beast in the air for someone his height. He's decent at tracking people and marking them well. But the second that ball is on the deck within 5 yards of him, either in his control or out of it, he's scared sh*tless. The second there's any sort of pressure, he reverts into a mute mouse. And I'm sick of our captain being like that.

I genuinely look forward to your response having been presented with the facts

EDIT: as an addition, whoscored.com has a handy feature where you can filter to view all Championship CB's and the number of tackles they average per 90 minutes. Tom Lees sits at 72nd out of a total of 87 Championship CB's. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by StudentOwl

[s6 owl]

3 minutes ago, Hotten Owl said:

Bizarre. I've seen loads of great posts from you, but this is genuinely bizarre. 

He's right did you watch him against West Brom? Burton? Pigs at home? Hull play off final? Hee seems to freeze in the big moments and that's not a very good trait for a captain is it.

[Stan Dupowls]

Just now, StudentOwl said:

No, he isn't. He sure as hell can't tackle. 

Probably the wrong night to try and defend him as the knives are out, And yes he dropped a clanger, but “he can’t tackle”..what have you been watching for the last few years?!

Dont you think we need to address how we try and retain the ball higher up the pitch better rather than asking defenders who aren’t comfortable playing it at the back to take the blame. 

 

[StudentOwl]

1 minute ago, Stan Dupowls said:

Probably the wrong night to try and defend him as the knives are out, And yes he dropped a clanger, but “he can’t tackle”..what have you been watching for the last few years?!

Dont you think we need to address how we try and retain the ball higher up the pitch better rather than asking defenders who aren’t comfortable playing it at the back to take the blame. 

 

Please see my above post which shows just how few tackles he's making per game. 

[TheLastSleepingGiant]

There’s a lot to be said for selling players when they are at their peak. Last few close seasons we could have fetched good money for Lees but instead his form has faltered.

 

Brentford do a great job of this.

 

The same could be said for Reach, £15m January and re-invest. Unfortunately our academy and scouting network don’t give us the back fill to capitalise like this.

[Stan Dupowls]

2 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

Please see my above post which shows just how few tackles he's making per game. 

Oh, so your not counting headers ......a CB defending must, where he, for a short arse, is nearly dominating and has saved loads of last ditch defending over the years.

All the faults of the squad and the tactics and you turn on Tom Lees...

 

[Ronnie Starling]

21 minutes ago, Hotten Owl said:

He had a mare for the goal. Name any other times he's let us down. Fair enough, he looks better with certain other players. He's captaining a side with young players brought through this season. Alright he might not be the ideal captain, but what are the other options? Loads of hysterical nonsense on this thread. 

The one that stands out for me was Ipswich away last season. Describing it as schoolboy defending would be unkind to young footballers.

[FreshOwl]

49 minutes ago, Pacific said:

Don’t want to see that mother f*****g c***t in a Wednesday shirt again.

 

Nooo you can’t be that mad  

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

58 minutes ago, David1867 said:

No pace, turning circle of a tank, very poor distribution, needs someone next to him to hold his hand. He can do the basic stuff like tackle or head the ball, defenders like that are 10 a penny. 

 

What sort of fee do you think he would command then? 

I beg to differ. He ticks all the boxes for what you need as a centre back except pace. He’s strong in the air, good in the tackle and brave. He’s a solid Championship defender. These players are not 10 a penny at all. Look last week, Bristol City’s cb’s cost way more than Lees yet Joao too the mick out of them. No way would Lees have been bullied like that. He’s one of the best centre halves we’ve had since the Premiership days. If you can’t see that get to the Lane

[Otley Owl]

12 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

 

I genuinely look forward to your response having been presented with the facts

I can only see one other central defender in that list of facts you've provided. I'm not sure what that proves? Maybe stats compared to other central defenders would help. I'm only going on what I've seen of Tom Lees, which is a fair amount - and I've seen him make plenty of high quality, last ditch tackles, some goal saving, some not. I've seen him have 6, 7, 8, 9 out of 10 performances. Mostly 7's and 8's. Overall, I rate him as a genuinely quality defender. I don't particularly want to argue with you about it, it's more the hysterical nonsense posters that you get on here and facebook, twitter etc that don't have a clue. It just bothers me when a player is scapegoated.Tom Lees is a quality championship central defender. He's possibly been shown up by having to take extra responsibility on with younger players around him. 

[StudentOwl]

4 minutes ago, Stan Dupowls said:

Oh, so your not counting headers ......a CB defending must, where he, for a short arse, is nearly dominating and has saved loads of last ditch defending over the years.

All the faults of the squad and the tactics and you turn on Tom Lees...

 

Good thing I also said 

Despite not being the tallest CB in the world, he's a relative beast in the air for someone his height. He's decent at tracking people and marking them well. 

And even initially said to you

He sure as hell can't tackle. 

 

I'm not doubting anything that you've said. He's positionally astute and commanding in the air. But as a defender you've got to be able to tackle too. And there is anecdotal as well as historical and current-season evidence to show that he struggles at it. Big time. Call me old fashioned, but I want my CB to be able to confidently deal with a situation when someone runs at him.