Lees why...

[DJMortimer]

Just now, Sgt Wednesday said:

 

The mistake Tom Lees makes tonight is equal to any forward player missing a good chance, the amount of chances Nuhiu misses yet you defend him and here you are hanging Lees.

 

Never been a football fan.

 

That last sentence embarrasses you.

 

As I've explained, there is a huge difference between what Lees did tonight for that goal and someone shanking a shot wide or losing concentration for a split second that lets a striker in behind to score. He had ages to consider his options and ended up choosing one that didn't even exist. Not playing a pass blindly across your defence, especially when you must have known you were the last man is a first principle of defending.

 

 

[Shifty Powers]

 

He is never the same player when it’s his responsibility to talk the back four through it. Added with a young, inexperienced (and nervy) GK it really is a perfect storm. 

 

We badly need a Rob Jones / Loovens kinda CB if we can, to get out the best in him as we all know there is a very good CB in there. 

 

I will say this though - not one player (other than Hector) put their arm round him and told him to move on when he made that mistake which was pretty sad to see. 

 

One thing is for certain - we cannot play football from the back. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Shifty Powers

[stanningtonowl]

19 minutes ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

 

Ok, so let me explain, we are trying to play out from the keeper, Dawson's distribution isn't the best, he reminds me of a younger Jordan Pickford, I do think Cam will get there though.

 

Tom Lees is pretty good on the ball for a CB, watch the other 94 minutes of the game.

 

By our CBs dropping in to pick up the ball we are hoping Boro will press, we can then miss the midfield out and go into Fletcher, with Reach and Joao playing off him.

 

Its called beating a press.

 

It's called utter cack. And it happens the same every match. The players clearly aren't comfortable with it so why persist?

[Sgt Wednesday]

8 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

He's been crap for a while now. Say it every week. I wouldn't start him. Slows everything down, awful in this playing it out of the back system, no leadership for a captain. 

 

Correct it wouldn't be good man management but without Loovens holding his hand, Tom Lees is below average. Compare him with the three Boro had at the back tonight. Light years ahead of him. 

 

He defends well, for 94 minutes tonight he played well, he did his job.

 

Slowing everything down is a stupid comment, he's a CB not a number 10.

 

Tom Lees is playing in a very young and inexperienced back 4/5, maybe he is under pressure that wasnt there with Loovens and Westwood alongside him.

 

 

[Sgt Wednesday]

1 minute ago, stanningtonowl said:

It's called utter cack. And it happens the same every match. The players clearly aren't comfortable with it so why persist?

 

Because you Sir are a tactically fool.

 

get it forrard.

[DJMortimer]

It has been notable that our last few opponents have made a point of putting our defenders under pressure quickly. They have obviously identified this as a weakness. I'm inclined to agree with them. We have flirted with disaster far too often and need to have a rethink.

[Guest]

Don’t want to see that mother f*****g c***t in a Wednesday shirt again.

 

[stanningtonowl]

1 minute ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

 

Because you Sir are a tactically fool.

 

get it forrard.

Ok which bit of passing out of the back do we look good at? And how often this season has the "beating the press" worked. Don't throw insults about as well please. I didn't insult you. 

[Shifty Powers]

1 minute ago, DJMortimer said:

It has been notable that our last few opponents have made a point of putting our defenders under pressure quickly. They have obviously identified this as a weakness. I'm inclined to agree with them. We have flirted with disaster far too often and need to have a rethink.

 

Yep - 100% agree. 

 

You can see we aren’t comfortable with it. We simply don’t have the players for it. It’s that simple. 

 

Making us fans nervous when they try and do it really can’t help matters either. 

[vulva]

3 minutes ago, Pacific said:

Don’t want to see that mother f*****g c***t in a Wednesday shirt again.

 

A village appears to have lost its idiot. 

[wellbeaten-the-owl]

1 minute ago, Shifty Powers said:

 

Yep - 100% agree. 

 

You can see we aren’t comfortable with it. We simply don’t have the players for it. It’s that simple. 

 

Making us fans nervous when they try and do it really can’t help matters either. 

Easy to over react though.  Much easier run on games now will tell more about where we will end up this season.  QPR and Birmingham away are winnable and 3 home games in November against waeker sides than Leeds WBA and boro

[TrickyTrev]

25 minutes ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

 

Ok, so let me explain, we are trying to play out from the keeper, Dawson's distribution isn't the best, he reminds me of a younger Jordan Pickford, I do think Cam will get there though.

 

Tom Lees is pretty good on the ball for a CB, watch the other 94 minutes of the game.

 

By our CBs dropping in to pick up the ball we are hoping Boro will press, we can then miss the midfield out and go into Fletcher, with Reach and Joao playing off him.

 

Its called beating a press.

 

Tom Lees is not good on the ball for a CB.

 

I watched the other 94 minutes of the match, I also watched the Leeds match too and whenever we tried to play that routine from a goal kick where Dawson plays it towards the corner flag and it’s Lees he plays it to, Lees always ignores the option of going down the line and cuts back inside playing it back to the keeper or across the back to another defender.

 

Once the ball is either back with Dawson or one of the other defenders, they have 2 or 3 attackers on top of them and we start to look panicked.

 

It happened loads of times against Leeds and tonight too, especially in the first half when for a spell of about 5 minutes we barely got out of our own half.

 

Tom Lees just looks so awkward at times on the ball and if we are going to employ this tactic going forward then his place in the side deserves serious consideration and at the very least Dawson should be playing the ball out to Hector or one of the full backs.

[StudentOwl]

He has the heart of a mouse when you want your captain to have the heart of a lion. 

I remember a couple of seasons ago, during our first game under CC's reign at home to Bristol City, there was the most amazing stat that neither Loovens nor Lees made a tackle the entire game. Which you can argue is an execution of superb marshalling. What worries me, however, is that he can't tackle. At all. He's actually ruddy cack at it and he indeed cacks himself whenever anyone runs at him. Want proof? Look at their first goal today. Look at West Brom's second the other week. 

 

"Oh but that's not fair," I hear some Owlstalkers cry, "you can't take two isolated incidents". You're right, I can't. According to whoscored, he has made a total of 11 tackles this season in 13 Championship appearances. As a running total, that is lower than: Penney, Thorniley, Pelupessy, Bannan, Baker and Forestieri. If you look at it as an average per 90 minutes, that is lower than: van Aken, Fox, Baker, Penney, Onomah, Thorniley, Forestieri, Pelupessy, Pudil, Hector, Nuhiu, Matias, Bannan, Palmer and Hutchinson, and the same per 90 minutes as Adam Reach.  

 

It's not lack of ability that means he's so down that list. It's lack of guts.

Despite not being the tallest CB in the world, he's a relative beast in the air for someone his height. He's decent at tracking people and marking them well. But the second that ball is on the deck within 5 yards of him, either in his control or out of it, he's scared sh*tless. The second there's any sort of pressure, he reverts into a mute mouse. And I'm sick of our captain being like that.

Edited October 19, 2018 by StudentOwl

[vulva]

Tom Lees is the least of our problems. 

 

Our biggest issue is £1m a month worth of footballer sat in the stand. 

 

 

 

[SallyCinnamon]

13 minutes ago, Sgt Wednesday said:

 

He defends well, for 94 minutes tonight he played well, he did his job.

 

Slowing everything down is a stupid comment, he's a CB not a number 10.

 

Tom Lees is playing in a very young and inexperienced back 4/5, maybe he is under pressure that wasnt there with Loovens and Westwood alongside him.

 

 

 

He can play in a a two. He's not comfortable in a three and I'm not sure why Jos persists with it. We've won games this season with a back four. We look so shaky with 5 at the back and have been let off the hook a number of times this season. That mistake has been coming.

 

He shouldn't be captain then if he can't handle the pressure. He misses Venancio or Loovens next to him.

[TrickyTrev]

11 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

It has been notable that our last few opponents have made a point of putting our defenders under pressure quickly. They have obviously identified this as a weakness. I'm inclined to agree with them. We have flirted with disaster far too often and need to have a rethink.

Bang on.

 

And when we go to Bramal Lane next month their forwards will be all over us trying to play it out from the back like flys around s**t just like they were at Hillsborough last season.

 

It is without a doubt a weakness in our side and it’s entirely of our own making.

[SallyCinnamon]

2 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

He has the heart of a mouse when you want your captain to have the heart of a lion. 

I remember a couple of seasons ago, during our first game under CC's reign at home to Bristol City, there was the most amazing stat that neither Loovens nor Lees made a tackle the entire game. Which you can argue is an execution of superb marshalling. What worries me, however, is that he can't tackle. At all. He's actually ruddy cack at it and he indeed cacks himself whenever anyone runs at him. Want proof? Look at their first goal today. Look at West Brom's second the other week. 

 

"Oh but that's not fair," I hear some Owlstalkers cry, "you can't take two isolated incidents". You're right, I can't. According to whoscored, he has made a total of 11 tackles this season in 13 Championship appearances. As a running total, that is lower than: Penney, Thorniley, Pelupessy, Bannan, Baker and Forestieri. If you look at it as an average per 90 minutes, that is lower than: van Aken, Fox, Baker, Penney, Onomah, Thorniley, Forestieri, Pelupessy, Pudil, Hector, Nuhiu, Matias, Bannan, Palmer and Hutchinson and the same per 90 minutes as Adam Reach.  

 

It's not lack of ability that means he's so down that list. It's lack of guts.

Despite not being the tallest CB in the world, he's a relative beast in the air for someone his height. He's decent at tracking people and marking them well. But the second that ball is on the deck within 5 yards of him, either in his control or out of it, he's scared sh*tless. The second there's any sort of pressure, he reverts into a mute mouse. And I'm sick of our captain being like that.

 

100% this.

[Taximark]

1 hour ago, DJMortimer said:

That mistake for the winning goal was one of the most unforgivable things I have ever seen. Several seconds dithering like someone who had never even come across a football before and then one of the most pathetic back passes in all of human history. Players are entitled to make errors, but that was not deserving of a pub league game. Luhukay really needs to think about his place in the team.

 

 

Said it at the game, he needs dropping but the playing it across the back is not helping him one bit but agree it was a shocker from him tonight.

[Taximark]

5 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

He has the heart of a mouse when you want your captain to have the heart of a lion. 

I remember a couple of seasons ago, during our first game under CC's reign at home to Bristol City, there was the most amazing stat that neither Loovens nor Lees made a tackle the entire game. Which you can argue is an execution of superb marshalling. What worries me, however, is that he can't tackle. At all. He's actually ruddy cack at it and he indeed cacks himself whenever anyone runs at him. Want proof? Look at their first goal today. Look at West Brom's second the other week. 

 

"Oh but that's not fair," I hear some Owlstalkers cry, "you can't take two isolated incidents". You're right, I can't. According to whoscored, he has made a total of 11 tackles this season in 13 Championship appearances. As a running total, that is lower than: Penney, Thorniley, Pelupessy, Bannan, Baker and Forestieri. If you look at it as an average per 90 minutes, that is lower than: van Aken, Fox, Baker, Penney, Onomah, Thorniley, Forestieri, Pelupessy, Pudil, Hector, Nuhiu, Matias, Bannan, Palmer and Hutchinson, and the same per 90 minutes as Adam Reach.  

 

It's not lack of ability that means he's so down that list. It's lack of guts.

Despite not being the tallest CB in the world, he's a relative beast in the air for someone his height. He's decent at tracking people and marking them well. But the second that ball is on the deck within 5 yards of him, either in his control or out of it, he's scared sh*tless. The second there's any sort of pressure, he reverts into a mute mouse. And I'm sick of our captain being like that.

Must agree with all of that .

Didnt see those stats but if they are correct ...wow .

[Taximark]

19 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

It has been notable that our last few opponents have made a point of putting our defenders under pressure quickly. They have obviously identified this as a weakness. I'm inclined to agree with them. We have flirted with disaster far too often and need to have a rethink.

We did the same to Millwall all those weeks ago and it got us our first win, but weve stopped, maybe jos is shittinghimself too, maybe we are paying the boros and Wbas on this world too much respect but clearly as a fan I can see two glaring issues we need to address;

A, playing it accross the back 

B, learning how to deal with teams that close us down and press us quickly.

 

Sort it out jos.