A E Neuman NYowl Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Lees is a good solid championship defender, he has proved that to us in the past. Like others have said at the moment he doesn't come over as leadership material but he is still young enough to pick it up. Its a massive step up when you have to manage others rather than just looking after number one. Maybe the additional responsibility is affecting his overall game, playing someone with experience like Pudil alongside him sharing the responsibility could help. Certainly think removing the captaincy like some have said would be a rotten move and ruin his confidence. ( I don't think Jos would do this for one minute) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlandished Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, LittleG said: That's absolute rubbish, Thorniley was at fault for the first one. Thorniley was at fault, but Lees did not help 1. He played them onside. Had he pushed up, their winger would have been off 2. Failed to block the shot that scored the first goal For their second, Lees obviously was a fault for that. His back pass was going sideways, not sure if he was aiming for Dawson or Palmer. Probably his brain said Dawson but his boot said Palmer. Went into no man's land, picked up and game over. Jos should not be using him as a sweeper To cap it all, Lees could have equalised for us in that last minute scramble, had he focused on scoring and not trying to claim a pen by raising his hand Hopefully Lees got all his mistakes out of the way in that one game, he's been a good player for us Edited October 21, 2018 by owlandished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, NYowl said: Lees is a good solid championship defender, he has proved that to us in the past. Like others have said at the moment he doesn't come over as leadership material but he is still young enough to pick it up. Its a massive step up when you have to manage others rather than just looking after number one. Maybe the additional responsibility is affecting his overall game, playing someone with experience like Pudil alongside him sharing the responsibility could help. Certainly think removing the captaincy like some have said would be a rotten move and ruin his confidence. ( I don't think Jos would do this for one minute) He's basically 28... the shelf life of a footballer at his peak these days is normally until about the age of 32 bar a few freaks like Ronaldo... the bloke's about three-quarters of the way into his best years as a footballer (about 22 to 32). If he's not got it now... when? Venancio and Pelupessy were both club captains in their early 20s. He's also been captain on the pitch for about two years now considering Loovens' lack of playing time... he's had plenty of practice. I also genuinely think that two failed play-off campaigns have left him somewhat mentally fragile. I firmly believe he's a decent Championship defender... but he's not a captain. He's a professional and I can only imagine a fantastic influence behind the scenes, hence the armband, but (personally) he's just not a leader on the pitch. Edited October 21, 2018 by StudentOwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LittleG Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, owlandished said: Thorniley was at fault, but Lees did not help 1. He played them onside. Had he pushed up, their winger would have been off 2. Failed to block the shot that scored the first goal For their second, Lees obviously was a fault for that. His back pass was going sideways, not sure if he was aiming for Dawson or Palmer. Probably his brain said Dawson but his boot said Palmer. Went into no man's land, picked up and game over. Jos should not be using him as a sweeper To cap it all, Lees could have equalised for us in that last minute scramble, had he focused on scoring and not trying to claim a pen by raising his hand Hopefully Lees got all his mistakes out of the way in that one game, he's been a good player for us Lees did have a poor game but,apart from Hector, the rest of them were also well below average. Like you say hopefully Lees has got the mistakes out of him, although the system does him no favours when hes expected to play it out from the back. At the end of the day hes basically an out and out defender and not a ball playing centre half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHERSTATE Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Reckon hes struggling to implement what jos is asking him to do. He said in an interview that the players are just getting used to the new style. He didnt sound happy about it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGHERSTATE Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Seems to me, as with carlos, hes asking them to play a passing game that they dont have the abilitly to implement as well as he wants them to..altho with jos they like to mix it up a bit..also im still not sure about these fluid tactics and defensive first halves..so very carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyswfc Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 He's not good enough for a team aiming for top 6. Without loovens there is no one to carry him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A E Neuman NYowl Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 1 hour ago, StudentOwl said: He's basically 28... the shelf life of a footballer at his peak these days is normally until about the age of 32 bar a few freaks like Ronaldo... the bloke's about three-quarters of the way into his best years as a footballer (about 22 to 32). If he's not got it now... when? Venancio and Pelupessy were both club captains in their early 20s. He's also been captain on the pitch for about two years now considering Loovens' lack of playing time... he's had plenty of practice. I also genuinely think that two failed play-off campaigns have left him somewhat mentally fragile. I firmly believe he's a decent Championship defender... but he's not a captain. He's a professional and I can only imagine a fantastic influence behind the scenes, hence the armband, but (personally) he's just not a leader on the pitch. Would you take the captaincy away from him and if so who would you choose ? Vanencio and Pelupessy poor examples as they captained teams at a much lower status. The only player that springs to mind who is a guaranteed regular is Bannan, who is around the same age and suffered the 2 play off defeats as Lees so that would rule him out in your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 18 hours ago, NorthernOwl said: Disagree with this (not the Bannan as captain bit). Tom Lees has always shown plenty of passion and always gives it 100%. He's in poor form for sure but he certainly doesn't lack passion. I'm not sure I've seen him show passion tbf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Gerry Young, Paul Warhurst, Des Walker, Nigel Pearson , Viv Anderson, They've all dropped boĺĺocks. Part and parcel of the game. His general form hasn't been brilliant. But take out the cockup and I don't think he was as horrific on friday as some are making out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modboy Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, Lord Snooty said: Gerry Young, Paul Warhurst, Des Walker, Nigel Pearson , Viv Anderson, They've all dropped boĺĺocks. Part and parcel of the game. His general form hasn't been brilliant. But take out the cockup and I don't think he was as horrific on friday as some are making out. He did make some outstanding goal saving blocks, as far as I can remember too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 2 hours ago, NYowl said: Lees is a good solid championship defender, he has proved that to us in the past. Like others have said at the moment he doesn't come over as leadership material but he is still young enough to pick it up. Its a massive step up when you have to manage others rather than just looking after number one. Maybe the additional responsibility is affecting his overall game, playing someone with experience like Pudil alongside him sharing the responsibility could help. Certainly think removing the captaincy like some have said would be a rotten move and ruin his confidence. ( I don't think Jos would do this for one minute) You don't train to be a leader, you are born a leader. Something TL will never be. I don't thinks it just a case of removing the captaincy he needs dropping as well. At present is is undroppable and that is the problem. Jos needs to try Pudil and Hector together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshOwl Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Very average, doesn’t have any redeeming qualities which stand out. You wanna make someone in the stature of Hector as captain, not sure hector himself, but some giant CB whose a beast in the air and assured in possession and doesn’t panic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, NYowl said: Would you take the captaincy away from him and if so who would you choose ? Vanencio and Pelupessy poor examples as they captained teams at a much lower status. The only player that springs to mind who is a guaranteed regular is Bannan, who is around the same age and suffered the 2 play off defeats as Lees so that would rule him out in your eyes. I don't think losing two play-offs automatically means you can't go for captain. If you're mentally strong enough, it makes no difference. The question mark is over whether he's mentally strong enough. Based on his on-the-pitch demeanour and form over the last year or so, I'd say no. But what a fan sees once or twice a week (at best) is not a reflection ofthe day-to-day... so maybe I'm just chatting a load of baloney. From the outside looking in though... it's a questionable appointment to the role of captain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhubarb n Custard Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 2 hours ago, StudentOwl said: I don't think losing two play-offs automatically means you can't go for captain. I would agree. Bannan would be a prime example, his drive is a strong as ever. If the rest of the team would react to adversity the way he does we would be auto-promotion candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I have seen absolutely nothing, despite what happened on Friday to suggest we would be a better team without Lees in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debram Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 On 20/10/2018 at 10:34, wakefieldowl said: So why is that Carlos fault. The obsession with some people blaming c.c for everuthing STILL, s frightening Its not, did you read my apology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborne_rat_of_s6 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 On 19/10/2018 at 21:30, CF83OWL said: Leave it go mate. Jos made him captain. Hate to say it but he certainly isn't Captain material. Too quiet and not commanding enough. Shame we haven't got too many options at the back as it would be worth dropping him for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxonOwl Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Never thought of Tom Lees as captain material. He is better with someone else taking the responsibility for the defence so he can concentrate on playing. Then he can be at his best as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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