Sonny Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I’m in two minds about it all. Obviously I love Hillsborough but so much of it now is not fit to support our future. The seats face the pitch, which is great and all that some people want, but we need to be as progressive now as those who built it were back then if we are going to prosper. The stadium is degrading and it needs to be addressed soon. I’d be happy with a quality new stadium in the right place. I’d be happy with a redeveloped Hillsborough. I wouldn’t be happy with the World Cup plans which were just a sticking plaster. Isn’t it more realistic that we’ll just rebuild one stand at a time without any kind of master plan to do it all at once or in quick succession. That’s whats always happened. Starting with the West Stand and then the Kop. What else are we ever really going to be able to afford, premiership or no premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 hour ago, sw1867 said: Surely 2 week and will cost £350k if past Owlstalk rumours are anything to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quist Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 hour ago, sw1867 said: As an extreme, look at the space available to build the shard and I am sure there are projects competed which are even more difficult than that. Accepting however that increased logistics equal higher construction costs. One for you to use @Quist Most of it has been gone over in thread, I was told a few years ago. It was a problem to rebuild as figures did not add up. I would not want us to move for the sake of moving but many arguments are more emotional than based on reality. I think everyone knows with issues it would be expensive and I could not being seeing undertaken unless we were ensconced in Premier division. The point about Health and Safety was what impact would these considerations have on attendance during several years of refurbishment. I am not saying ground would be closed but capacity would be reduced to have dramatic impact on club receipts. Segregation of away fans ensuring gaps between ongoing work from fans, routing of fans around stadium so separation of away fans stream from home fans etc. If we were in Premier league think its fair to say we would be pushing 30,000 and for some it would be full house. Unfortunately some only read one comment and do not follow entire thread and so get hold of wrong idea. (I am not saying this is you). When you consider future non football income which may be acquired from different location I could quite understand why some one would say pay not to rebuild. Think more clubs have gone down rebuild route rather than substantial refurbishment. Tottenham and Chelsea are using Wembley whilst work done we do not have luxury of using an independent stadium if Hillsborough had to closed temporarily. I can not remember a ground recently which was 3 sided during development work, Seen at cricket grounds recently where huge proportion of ground closed to allow for development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlyegg Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Quist said: Look at non football income returns for clubs and you will see how poorly located Hillsborough is. Its about access surrounding facilities and parking. After a game if stay to final whistle it is minimum of 30 minutes before I get on to motorway sometimes longer. Why is everyone concerned with motorways, most wednesdayites do not use, Nearly 20% walk to the game. And a big percentage live within 10 miles of the ground. Parking is a pain for every club in the country...unless you would like an out of town bowl. But then who go except for football? Hillsborough is absolutely perfectly located for the vast majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 18 hours ago, OWLERTON GHOST said: Quist..... In all his Glory !!! He lives in the outskirts of reading... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roaminowl Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 15 hours ago, casbahowl said: Reading have special match day busses from the train station to the ground and back at a cost of £2 each way which makes it extremely comparable to Sheffield but they’re under used because no one wants to go out to a soulless business park next to a motorway! With match day prices being the cheapest in the division AND subsidised busses to and from the ground they still struggle to half fill it. They also have a hotel which is NEVER anywhere near full built into the ground which is also a massive white elephant! Reading will be lucky to survive in the championship this season and could easily end up back in the third tier of English football with massive outgoings and minimal income. Should this happen Reading would be in grave danger of being the first EFL club to go into liquidation as a direct result of moving to a pre packed soulless out of town bowl that locals have absolutely no affiliation to ! Be careful what you wish for! Nearly a full house in one sentence. Has anybody said Ikea yet? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hillsborough Mole Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Sham67 said: You really can't get any lower than using the disaster to score points. Reprehensible. What?? Don't be ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hillsborough Mole Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Sonny said: I’m in two minds about it all. Obviously I love Hillsborough but so much of it now is not fit to support our future. The seats face the pitch, which is great and all that some people want, but we need to be as progressive now as those who built it were back then if we are going to prosper. The stadium is degrading and it needs to be addressed soon. I’d be happy with a quality new stadium in the right place. I’d be happy with a redeveloped Hillsborough. I wouldn’t be happy with the World Cup plans which were just a sticking plaster. Isn’t it more realistic that we’ll just rebuild one stand at a time without any kind of master plan to do it all at once or in quick succession. That’s whats always happened. Starting with the West Stand and then the Kop. What else are we ever really going to be able to afford, premiership or no premiership. Without a doubt we need to rebuild 3 stands (at a minimum) First for me would be the Kop. It's one of the worst stands anywhere in football. The only thing it had going for it is size Take it to the floor, build from the bottom up, incorporate the club offices, new shop, all facing the road with a huge area in front of it. Build a covered corner to align with the North. That way the club's current offices on the 2nd floor of the South can be repurposed into restaurant space in readiness for the Premier. Next the West Stand and another covered corner to align with the North. Build exec facilities into both Kop and West stands, fan bars overlooking the pitch. The North could probably be left as is, but build out behind, extend the concourses, that would cost much to do. Incorporate new dressing rooms and a tunnel, in readiness for the final phase, the replacement of the South, which still incorporates the original Archibald Leach structure None of this fixes the issue of parking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveger Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Hillsborough Mole said: Without a doubt we need to rebuild 3 stands (at a minimum) First for me would be the Kop. It's one of the worst stands anywhere in football. The only thing it had going for it is size Take it to the floor, build from the bottom up, incorporate the club offices, new shop, all facing the road with a huge area in front of it. Build a covered corner to align with the North. That way the club's current offices on the 2nd floor of the South can be repurposed into restaurant space in readiness for the Premier. Next the West Stand and another covered corner to align with the North. Build exec facilities into both Kop and West stands, fan bars overlooking the pitch. The North could probably be left as is, but build out behind, extend the concourses, that would cost much to do. Incorporate new dressing rooms and a tunnel, in readiness for the final phase, the replacement of the South, which still incorporates the original Archibald Leach structure None of this fixes the issue of parking or non matchday income as it's still located where it is, no one would want to travel out there apart from the people who live there and football fans, sorry but it's the truth like it or not... Edited October 14, 2018 by steveger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casbahowl Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hillsborough Mole said: Without a doubt we need to rebuild 3 stands (at a minimum) First for me would be the Kop. It's one of the worst stands anywhere in football. The only thing it had going for it is size Take it to the floor, build from the bottom up, incorporate the club offices, new shop, all facing the road with a huge area in front of it. Build a covered corner to align with the North. That way the club's current offices on the 2nd floor of the South can be repurposed into restaurant space in readiness for the Premier. Next the West Stand and another covered corner to align with the North. Build exec facilities into both Kop and West stands, fan bars overlooking the pitch. The North could probably be left as is, but build out behind, extend the concourses, that would cost much to do. Incorporate new dressing rooms and a tunnel, in readiness for the final phase, the replacement of the South, which still incorporates the original Archibald Leach structure None of this fixes the issue of parking One of the worst stands anywhere in football? what the actualfuck are you rambling on about ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Hillsborough Mole said: Without a doubt we need to rebuild 3 stands (at a minimum) First for me would be the Kop. It's one of the worst stands anywhere in football. The only thing it had going for it is size Take it to the floor, build from the bottom up, incorporate the club offices, new shop, all facing the road with a huge area in front of it. Build a covered corner to align with the North. That way the club's current offices on the 2nd floor of the South can be repurposed into restaurant space in readiness for the Premier. Next the West Stand and another covered corner to align with the North. Build exec facilities into both Kop and West stands, fan bars overlooking the pitch. The North could probably be left as is, but build out behind, extend the concourses, that would cost much to do. Incorporate new dressing rooms and a tunnel, in readiness for the final phase, the replacement of the South, which still incorporates the original Archibald Leach structure None of this fixes the issue of parking If we’re staying then I’d happily go with all that. I can see the merit in redeveloping the Kop first as I suppose (once the hill is flattened) it would offer the most immediate potential in terms of newly available space fronting on to the public. That’s a good point that the area in front could be brilliant once the need for it to accommodate turnstiles and all the facilities so close to the road was removed. It’s about so much more than remvoving the pillars. Doing the Kop properly and the West stand plus corners could leave us with something similar to that brilliant old model with a prominent original South Stand. No offence to Strafford as the World Cup plans would have made us a World Cup stadium and probably given us a shot in the arm but they were short term. We need long term. Sorted. Let’s get cracking eh (unless the council want to give us some land in the city centre - either). Edited October 14, 2018 by Sonny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshOwl Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) Just do up hillsborough ffs, what’s this fascination with moving to a new ground, and why are you labelled unambitious or stuck in the past because you want to stay? Edited October 14, 2018 by FreshOwl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S36 OWL Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 27 minutes ago, FreshOwl said: Just do up hillsborough ffs, what’s this fascination with moving to a new ground, and why are you labelled unambitious or stuck in the past because you want to stay? ^^^^^^^^^^ What this man said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Has anybody thought that chansiri can't capitalise building a new stadium? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hillsborough Mole Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 52 minutes ago, casbahowl said: One of the worst stands anywhere in football? what the actualfuck are you rambling on about ??? 80% of the area behind the turnstiles is open to the elements The 2 main areas serving alcohol to fans are open to the elements, including the new area which has expanded into the South Stand car park The toilet facilities are from the 1950s, and there is no hot water in any of them (in breach of Building Regulations that states that hot water must be provided ‘to any washbasin in, or adjacent to, a room containing a sanitary convenience') 50% of the toilet facilities only provide cold water at (at maximum) a trickle There are only 4 small catering outlets to provide for 11,200 people. The largest concourse was funded by supporters - and is entirely unsuitable for standing in due to the queues to the busiest bar (which is also the area where people exit the gents toilets and have to fight their way through the same queues) A large proportion of the seats in the stand are listed as 'Restricted View' due to the posts in the way Theres a bloody tree growing in the muck behind the stand Other than in the corner sections leg room is very restricted The area immediately behind the turnstiles gets very congested - especially as 3 of the 4 catering outlets use the same area. There are only 4 main gangways for entry/exit Thats for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello 77 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I love that tree. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hillsborough Mole Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Costello 77 said: I love that tree. Me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Owl Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 4 hours ago, Animis said: Of course we can - but it will cost £10s millions. DC may or may not share your view about Hillsborough being one of the finest football stadiums in the country. Our fans rightly look at Hillsborough with pride and emotion - this will also play a part in the decision I'm sure. To properly redevelop Hillsborough is going to cost c 100 million at least if we are being realistic, but to build a new stadium, the costs would be astronomical. Just check out the situation that Spurs now find themselves in with costs fast approaching 1 billion. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/30/tottenham-reality-check-stadium-costs-escalate-mauricio-pochettino As for the argument that work would not start until we are in the Premier League, this is where I have my doubts about DC's level of commitment. The way in which to redevelop the stadium with the minimum impact on gates and subsequent loss of income is to start the work now whilst we do not need the full capacity. Take the current West Stand out of the equation and the capacity of Hillsborough falls to 32k (assuming the North and South Stands have the necessary remedial work done to bring them back up to full capacity. Allowing for segregation at the West end of either the North or South Stands to accommodate up to 2k away fans realistically the capacity could be kept at c30k overall with 28k for home fans. That is adequate for all bar maybe one or two games per season at Hillsborough. From there start work on a phased development of the West Stand on the basis of a 12k three tier stand including the NWC joining on to the North Stand complete with exec suites etc. (there is plenty of room there for this), then the lower tier could be done as phase 1 giving a capacity of c 4k+ after just one season, with the remaining work being completed the following year. Proper segregation facilities could easily be incorporated so that the new West Stand could accommodate c 8k home fans and up to 4k away fans with the design being flexible so that this could be varied later on in the EPL for really large crowds. Once the West Stand is done you can redevelop the Kop end on the same basis 3 tiers accommodating c.15k fans with exec boxes and everything opening the lower tier quickly then moving onto the rest. This would mean that the ground could be redeveloped to bring capacity up to c 47k without the need for overall capacity during redevelopment to drop below 30-32k. Further development re corners, back of North Stand etc could take place later as necessary, but the site overall can easily accommodate a 52-55k capacity stadium. Infrastructure is of course another matter because these days people don't use public transport the way they did 30/40/50years ago, but a change in that direction is inevitably coming and regardless of where we end up infrastructure is always going to be an issue. What it needs is for the owner to show the same commitment and faith in our long term prospects as a club that the fans do. Sadly I fear that the sole motivation is money and for that reason it will not happen as and when it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulva Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 £100m?? Who’s doing the work, same lad that did the Shard? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteener1867 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Am on the Kop, leg room is fine, rarely have to queue any length of time for food or drink , view us excellent Rarely have a promble "One of the worst stands in football" Nowt like exaggerating to get a point across,rather detracts from the rest of the argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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