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After 15 matches it’s almost set in stone - Season 4


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10 hours ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

For the fourth season running here is my 15 match thread (which I always do after 10 matches - 2 late this season).

 

We have now played 12 matches.  Despite what people say about one team always coming from nowhere - this is absolute rubbish.  It hardly ever happens!

 

As a general rule if you are not within touching distance after 15 matches, you rarely make the top 6.  Indeed, I will go on to show that unless you have at least 20 points after 15 matches you can practically forget it. IN ACTUAL FACT IF YOU GET BELOW 20 POINTS IN ANY THIRD OF THE SEASON IT MAKES LIFE VERY DIFFICULT FOR YOU!

 

Table last season after 15 matches

 

Wolves 32

Cardiff 31

pigs 30

Bristol City 27

Villa 26

Derby 25

Boro 23

Leeds 23

Norwich 22

 

Familiar look to the final table? 5 of the eventual top 6 were in the top 7 after 15 matches.

 

The league table after 15 matches looked like this in 16/17:-

 

Newcastle 34

Brighton 31

Huddersfield 28

Norwich 27

Reading 25

Bristol C 24

Birmingham 24

Wednesday 24

Leeds 23

Brentford 22

Fulham 21

Barnsley 20

Preston 20

QPR 19

Villa 18

Ipswich 18

 

Familiar look to the final table? 5 of the eventual top 6 were in the top 8 after 15 matches.

 

The league table after 15 matches looked like this in 15/16:-

 

Hull 31

Burnley 31

Brighton 31

Derby 30

Boro 30

Brum 25

Reading 24

Wednesday 24

Cardiff 22

Ipswich 21

Brentford 20

Fulham 20

 

Familiar look to the final table? The top 5 after 15 matches finished in the top 5. Wednesday finished 6th and were 8th after 15 matches.

 

The league table after 15 matches in 14/15

 

Watford 29

Bournemouth 27

Boro 27

Wolves 27

Derby 26

Norwich 26

Blackburn 25

Ipswich 24

 

Watford and Bournemouth went on to finish in the top 2.

 

Norwich, Boro and Ipswich finished in the top 6.

 

SO IN THE LAST FOUR SEASONS - 21 OF THE 24 TEAMS THAT HAVE FINISHED IN THE TOP SIX HAVE BEEN EIGHTH OR HIGHER AFTER FIFTEEN MATCHES!

 

ALL EIGHT TEAMS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE TOP TWO AFTER FIFTEEN MATCHES HAVE GONE ON TO FINISH IN THE TOP SIX!  SEVEN OF THE EIGHT HAVE FINISHED IN THE TOP TWO!

 

This is the top 6 for last season broken down by final points - first 15 matches - second 15 matches - last 16 matches

 

Wolves 99-32-36-31

Cardiff 90-31-24-35

Fulham 88-19-32-37

Villa 83-26-30-27

Boro 76-23-22-31

Derby 75-25-32-18

 

As you will see below, this is an unusual season. Fulham made the play offs despite getting less than 20 points in the first 15 matches. This rarely occurs!

 

Also, Derby only got 18 points in their final 16 matches and still made it.

 

This is the top 6 for the 16/17 season broken down by final points - first 15 matches - second 15 matches - last 16 matches

 

Brighton 92- 31-30-31

Newcastle 91-34-31-26

Reading 85-25-31-26

Wednesday 81-24-28-29

Huddersfield 81-28-30-23

Fulham 80-21-25-34

 

So in 16/17 the only team to get below 24 points in ANY third of the season and still make the play offs was Fulham with 21 in the first third.

 

and just for a chuckle you see where Leeds went wrong.

 

Leeds 74-23-31-20

 

This is the top 6 for 2015-16  broken down by final points - first 15 matches - second 15 matches - last 16 matches

 

Burnley 93 - 31 - 24 - 38

Boro 89 - 30 - 28 - 31

Brighton 89 - 31 - 25 - 33

Hull 83 - 31 - 28 - 24

Derby 78 - 30 - 21 - 27

Wednesday 74 - 24 - 26 - 24

 

So in 15/16, the only team to get below 24 points in ANY third of the season and still make the play offs was Derby with 21 in the second third.

 

Below is the top 6 for the season 2014-15 with the same breakdown:-

 

Bournemouth 90-27-31-32

Watford 89-29-24-36

Norwich 86-26-24-36

Middlesbrough 85-27-32-26

Brentford 78-22-30-26

Ipswich 78-24-27-27

 

Again, there is only one team (Brentford) to get below 24 points in ANY third of the season and still make the play offs.

 

In 14/15 Derby suddenly fell away, showing that unless you have an exceptional 15 matches you really can't afford a mediocre 15 matches (77-26-31-20)

 

Points needed to reach play offs followed by points total of the 6th team after the first 15 games: 

 

2017/18 = 75 (Derby). First 15 games had 25 points

 

2016/17 =  80 (Fulham). First 15 games Fulham had 21 points

 

2015/16 = 74 (Wednesday). First 15 games Wednesday had 24

 

2014/15 = 78 (Ipswich). First 15 games Ipswich had 24. 

 

2013/14 = 72 (Brighton). First 15 games Brighton had 21. 

 

2012/13 = 68 (Leicester). First 15 games Leicester had 26. 

 

2011/12 = 75 (Cardiff). First 15 games Cardiff had 24. 

 

2010/11 = 75 (Notts Forest). First 15 games Notts Forest had 20. 

 

 

6th spot average over 8 years = 74.6

 

6th spot teams after 15 games = 23.2

 

So in conclusion, it is highly unlikely that any team that has under 20 points after 15 matches will make the play offs. Ideally, you want at least 24 points.

 

In the last four years, if you are going to make the top 2, you need at least 27 points.

 

We currently have 19 points from 12 matches.  Are we confident of getting to at least 24?  

 

Our next 3 matches to take us to 15 are:-

 

H v Boro

A v QPR

A v Brum

 

Extreme Examples:-

 

Every season I have done this people have tried to come up with extreme examples. And there are a few but they are never as extreme as people remembered:-

 

Palace under Dowie

 

73 points - 16-25-32

 

Sunderland under Keane

 

88 points - 19 - 27 -42

 

Reading 89-18-33-38

 

Blackpool 70-24-16-30

 

They are the only extreme examples I can find in 20 years (plus Fulham last season). By extreme I mean less than 20 points in either the first or second third.

 

So in 20 years, only FOUR teams have had less than 20 points after the first fifteen matches and made the top 6!

 

Why didn't Gary Madine think about this? :wacko:

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2 hours ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

In 2006/07, Sunderland under Keane had 19 points and the 6th team had 25 points.  So they made up 6 points.

 

Fulham last season had 19 points and Derby had 25 in 6th.  So they also managed to get in the play offs after being 6 points adrift after 15 matches.

 

Palace under Dowie (03/04) are the only rxsmple I can find.  They had 16 points after 15 matches.  6th place had 27 points which is very high.  Palace made up 11 points!

 

statistically that is an amazing season because after 15 matches 6th place had 27 points which is the highest in the past 20 years.  Yet Palace ended up making the top 6 with a relatively low total of 73 points.

I understand what your saying but if Fulham can make up 9pts with 26 games left then you'd think  7 from 31 games dosnt  put you out the picture  

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4 minutes ago, torryowl said:

I understand what your saying but if Fulham can make up 9pts with 26 games left then you'd think  7 from 31 games dosnt  put you out the picture  

 

What he's stating is a happening like that is statistically massively rare (In Fulham's case it's actually unique). 

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14 minutes ago, torryowl said:

I understand what your saying but if Fulham can make up 9pts with 26 games left then you'd think  7 from 31 games dosnt  put you out the picture  

 

It doesn't put you out of the picture. It is just very unlikely.

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10 hours ago, hawksmore said:

 

People like you are proper weirdos. 

 

Being disagreed with then going through a number of posters other posts, in non-related threads negging is very worrying behaviour. 

 

Statistically, it is highly likely that such a person is unhappy with life. 

 

You negged me, I negged you.

 

:tango:

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19 hours ago, HirstWhoScoredIt said:

For the fourth season running here is my 15 match thread (which I always do after 10 matches - 2 late this season).

 

We have now played 12 matches.  Despite what people say about one team always coming from nowhere - this is absolute rubbish.  It hardly ever happens!

 

As a general rule if you are not within touching distance after 15 matches, you rarely make the top 6.  Indeed, I will go on to show that unless you have at least 20 points after 15 matches you can practically forget it. IN ACTUAL FACT IF YOU GET BELOW 20 POINTS IN ANY THIRD OF THE SEASON IT MAKES LIFE VERY DIFFICULT FOR YOU!

 

Table last season after 15 matches

 

Wolves 32

Cardiff 31

pigs 30

Bristol City 27

Villa 26

Derby 25

Boro 23

Leeds 23

Norwich 22

 

Familiar look to the final table? 5 of the eventual top 6 were in the top 7 after 15 matches.

 

The league table after 15 matches looked like this in 16/17:-

 

Newcastle 34

Brighton 31

Huddersfield 28

Norwich 27

Reading 25

Bristol C 24

Birmingham 24

Wednesday 24

Leeds 23

Brentford 22

Fulham 21

Barnsley 20

Preston 20

QPR 19

Villa 18

Ipswich 18

 

Familiar look to the final table? 5 of the eventual top 6 were in the top 8 after 15 matches.

 

The league table after 15 matches looked like this in 15/16:-

 

Hull 31

Burnley 31

Brighton 31

Derby 30

Boro 30

Brum 25

Reading 24

Wednesday 24

Cardiff 22

Ipswich 21

Brentford 20

Fulham 20

 

Familiar look to the final table? The top 5 after 15 matches finished in the top 5. Wednesday finished 6th and were 8th after 15 matches.

 

The league table after 15 matches in 14/15

 

Watford 29

Bournemouth 27

Boro 27

Wolves 27

Derby 26

Norwich 26

Blackburn 25

Ipswich 24

 

Watford and Bournemouth went on to finish in the top 2.

 

Norwich, Boro and Ipswich finished in the top 6.

 

SO IN THE LAST FOUR SEASONS - 21 OF THE 24 TEAMS THAT HAVE FINISHED IN THE TOP SIX HAVE BEEN EIGHTH OR HIGHER AFTER FIFTEEN MATCHES!

 

ALL EIGHT TEAMS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE TOP TWO AFTER FIFTEEN MATCHES HAVE GONE ON TO FINISH IN THE TOP SIX!  SEVEN OF THE EIGHT HAVE FINISHED IN THE TOP TWO!

 

This is the top 6 for last season broken down by final points - first 15 matches - second 15 matches - last 16 matches

 

Wolves 99-32-36-31

Cardiff 90-31-24-35

Fulham 88-19-32-37

Villa 83-26-30-27

Boro 76-23-22-31

Derby 75-25-32-18

 

As you will see below, this is an unusual season. Fulham made the play offs despite getting less than 20 points in the first 15 matches. This rarely occurs!

 

Also, Derby only got 18 points in their final 16 matches and still made it.

 

This is the top 6 for the 16/17 season broken down by final points - first 15 matches - second 15 matches - last 16 matches

 

Brighton 92- 31-30-31

Newcastle 91-34-31-26

Reading 85-25-31-26

Wednesday 81-24-28-29

Huddersfield 81-28-30-23

Fulham 80-21-25-34

 

So in 16/17 the only team to get below 24 points in ANY third of the season and still make the play offs was Fulham with 21 in the first third.

 

and just for a chuckle you see where Leeds went wrong.

 

Leeds 74-23-31-20

 

This is the top 6 for 2015-16  broken down by final points - first 15 matches - second 15 matches - last 16 matches

 

Burnley 93 - 31 - 24 - 38

Boro 89 - 30 - 28 - 31

Brighton 89 - 31 - 25 - 33

Hull 83 - 31 - 28 - 24

Derby 78 - 30 - 21 - 27

Wednesday 74 - 24 - 26 - 24

 

So in 15/16, the only team to get below 24 points in ANY third of the season and still make the play offs was Derby with 21 in the second third.

 

Below is the top 6 for the season 2014-15 with the same breakdown:-

 

Bournemouth 90-27-31-32

Watford 89-29-24-36

Norwich 86-26-24-36

Middlesbrough 85-27-32-26

Brentford 78-22-30-26

Ipswich 78-24-27-27

 

Again, there is only one team (Brentford) to get below 24 points in ANY third of the season and still make the play offs.

 

In 14/15 Derby suddenly fell away, showing that unless you have an exceptional 15 matches you really can't afford a mediocre 15 matches (77-26-31-20)

 

Points needed to reach play offs followed by points total of the 6th team after the first 15 games: 

 

2017/18 = 75 (Derby). First 15 games had 25 points

 

2016/17 =  80 (Fulham). First 15 games Fulham had 21 points

 

2015/16 = 74 (Wednesday). First 15 games Wednesday had 24

 

2014/15 = 78 (Ipswich). First 15 games Ipswich had 24. 

 

2013/14 = 72 (Brighton). First 15 games Brighton had 21. 

 

2012/13 = 68 (Leicester). First 15 games Leicester had 26. 

 

2011/12 = 75 (Cardiff). First 15 games Cardiff had 24. 

 

2010/11 = 75 (Notts Forest). First 15 games Notts Forest had 20. 

 

 

6th spot average over 8 years = 74.6

 

6th spot teams after 15 games = 23.2

 

So in conclusion, it is highly unlikely that any team that has under 20 points after 15 matches will make the play offs. Ideally, you want at least 24 points.

 

In the last four years, if you are going to make the top 2, you need at least 27 points.

 

We currently have 19 points from 12 matches.  Are we confident of getting to at least 24?  

 

Our next 3 matches to take us to 15 are:-

 

H v Boro

A v QPR

A v Brum

 

Extreme Examples:-

 

Every season I have done this people have tried to come up with extreme examples. And there are a few but they are never as extreme as people remembered:-

 

Palace under Dowie

 

73 points - 16-25-32

 

Sunderland under Keane

 

88 points - 19 - 27 -42

 

Reading 89-18-33-38

 

Blackpool 70-24-16-30

 

They are the only extreme examples I can find in 20 years (plus Fulham last season). By extreme I mean less than 20 points in either the first or second third.

 

So in 20 years, only FOUR teams have had less than 20 points after the first fifteen matches and made the top 6!

 

So are we getting promoted or not?..

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well done a really good piece of work and enjoyed reading it.

 

If we get 5 pts or more from next 3 games we are in serious business. 

 

The other point worth noting is I think this year will be one of those where quite a low points total will make play offs as no team has really got away from others at this stage and lots on similar points. 

 

Tony Pulis was interviewed on Sky and he said 16 matches was an indicator of how you would go in season. He was being interviewed when Middlesnoro were top I thought just saying that as 10 game mark had been reached and just trying to deflect question. Think this proves there is something in what he was saying.

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1 hour ago, sw1867 said:

 

I’ve re-read the OP and don’t think this is in their but apologies if I’ve missed it.

 

How many teams who achieved 24 points in the first 15 games have then failed to make the playoffs?

 

just look at who has 24 or more points after 15 games in the tables provided!

 

the answer is quite alot of them.

Brizzle city had 27 pts last year and 24 the year before, on both occasions they didnt make the play-offs.

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I think if you make the target in one or two thirds it is very easy to miss the target in one third and not end up in the playoffs.

 

On the other hand, if you fall behind the target in any on third it is pretty difficult to make up the shortfall in the other thirds

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