Carlos Carvalhal says he's back on the market

[handworth52]

8 hours ago, torryowl said:

we've been here before …… how can carlos be responsible for the crippling debt & mega bucks that the players get  paid …… ….chansiri  and his advisors would know what they could  or couldn't t spend to keep the club onside of FFP  and they just spent anyway trying to reach the pot of gold that is the prem …if .you think carlos is a crap coach I wouldn't argue with you on that coz we all have different opinions  but financial matters is a different story .  

if another clubs manager signed 19 bad players out of 20 to play top end championship football they all will be getting 2-3 year contracts and the club would be stuck with them if there on there last big contract like most of ours are ,chansiri has made many many mistakes but he had to trust his managers judgement on players sadly for us failed big time. 

[torryowl]

1 hour ago, Socialist_Owl said:

Jaap Stam got to Wembley.  Left Reading a dull shitshow.

 

The footballing world is full of few year flukes.  Who cares.  He neglected youth development, played his faves to no end, and showed absolutely no tactical nous ever.  Those negatives still affect the club, and they far outweigh some fleeting bit of brilliance that was more on the collected players absolutely clicking than some managerial acumen.

I don't dispute that the football was dull …...I find it strange that he's accused of neglecting the youth set up …...he gave the 1st pro contracts to penney,thorniley,baker ,and many others in the dev squad , he sent penney,thorniley,clare,stobbs & dawson out on loan to aid there development . he brought wildsmith into the squad as a 19 year old …….as for tactical nous he had plenty it just erred on the cautious side .doing the double over managers like wagner (twice) & benitez proves he must have some idea how to eke out results ….it's ridiculous to praise the players for there brilliance when they won and then blame the manager when they didn't . a fleeting bit of brilliance doesn't accrue 81 points does it .

[torryowl]

8 hours ago, james o connor said:

His legacy dictates he was dreadful , hence the mess we have been in since he left. The signings he made were awful . His tactics were awful and the team picked up results because it was decent , we won In spite of him. When it matters he fails every time. Both seasons we were dire in the play offs . Swansea’s crunch mat h at home to Southampton,   Needing only a point for survival , they lose.  Everywhere he goes he ultimately fails .

he's only responsible for the playing side and while we have some aged players to shift out he has in the main left  a decent squad who'll be competitive this season  ….the financial mess cannot be laid at his feet .we could solve the financial mess by selling FF,BB & joao  all carlos signings who would fetch in far far more than we paid for them so the legacy cant have been that bad …... 

[The Wall]

2 hours ago, @owlstalk said:

WTF

I think it was a fair question. 

Players were injured under Carlos, but what is the evidence that it was his fault and not bad luck?

Were youth team players actually told that "they had no chance of playing, ever", or were they just deemed not to warrant a place in the team at that time?

Were "non favourites" told that they would only play when there was no other option, or were they just treated as squad players (like at every other club in the league)?

Did players really turn up for training whenever they wanted, or was it agreed that certain players wouldn't train all the time (as is common with lots of players with injury concerns)

Fair enough if you have info from inside the club, but it sounds at bit like you're jumping to conclusions to suit your argument

[Earlsfieldowl]

20 hours ago, Kagoshimaowl said:

I find the Carlis hatred on here weird. We were ONE game away from going up in a season where we played the best football I’ve seen since the mid 90’s and in a season where some pundits predicted us for the drop. Yes, it went south after that but I will never hate him for that season that he gave us.

 

Weird really as Megson is treated like a god in here, yet that was in a lower division and he didn’t get us promoted either.

 

It was chiefly the no show at Wembley, shambles that followed, supine efforts against Huddersfield and the overall casual transfer policy amongst other things that rankle.

 

..and leaving us in a rotten state last season! 

 

Megson had had his faults but left a great platform for Jones to add in the extra 5% needed to get us promoted. 

[fatbloke]

Which Market Barnsley or Doncaster?

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

30 minutes ago, fatbloke said:

Which Market Barnsley or Doncaster?

Skegness 

[s73owl]

12 minutes ago, Andoverowl said:

Skegness 

Skeggy market, f*****g hate that place, full of chavs and thieving twohats, and when we go r lass insists on walking round it 2/3 times every frigin day 

Edited September 19, 2018 by s73owl

[OWLERTON GHOST]

1 hour ago, emersonthome said:

I think it was a fair question. 

Players were injured under Carlos, but what is the evidence that it was his fault and not bad luck?

Were youth team players actually told that "they had no chance of playing, ever", or were they just deemed not to warrant a place in the team at that time?

Were "non favourites" told that they would only play when there was no other option, or were they just treated as squad players (like at every other club in the league)?

Did players really turn up for training whenever they wanted, or was it agreed that certain players wouldn't train all the time (as is common with lots of players with injury concerns)

Fair enough if you have info from inside the club, but it sounds at bit like you're jumping to conclusions to suit your argument

 

[The Wall]

Just now, OWLERTON GHOST said:

 

Yeah, great... but it's not really an answer is it?

[OWLERTON GHOST]

4 minutes ago, emersonthome said:

Yeah, great... but it's not really an answer is it?

Because you wouldn't like it ..

 

[james o connor]

1 hour ago, torryowl said:

he's only responsible for the playing side and while we have some aged players to shift out he has in the main left  a decent squad who'll be competitive this season  ….the financial mess cannot be laid at his feet .we could solve the financial mess by selling FF,BB & joao  all carlos signings who would fetch in far far more than we paid for them so the legacy cant have been that bad …... 

No those three we signed by the transfer committee ... the signature mugs after this were noticeably poorer , once our good friend Carlos got in charge of transfers 

[torryowl]

6 minutes ago, james o connor said:

No those three we signed by the transfer committee ... the signature mugs after this were noticeably poorer , once our good friend Carlos got in charge of transfers 

that's not what chansiri said at the steering group meeting last November  or carlos said  only the other week ……..

[james o connor]

Just now, torryowl said:

that's not what chansiri said at the steering group meeting last November  or carlos said  only the other week ……..

Are you sure ? Either way those three, reach aside we’re the last three decent signings made under Carlos management. This is exactly why he was garbage. For two years he made shocking signings , mostly over the hill has beens. There was no plan, nothing was thought out . Why The hell did we sign George Boyd last summer when we already had an over the hill winger In the same mould, Ross Wallace? 

You are one of the more sensible posters on here , but I can’t for the life of me understand why you are so quick to defend a manager who blew our greatest chance of success and left us in a poorer state than when he arrived 

[torryowl]

5 minutes ago, james o connor said:

Are you sure ? Either way those three, reach aside we’re the last three decent signings made under Carlos management. This is exactly why he was garbage. For two years he made shocking signings , mostly over the hill has beens. There was no plan, nothing was thought out . Why The hell did we sign George Boyd last summer when we already had an over the hill winger In the same mould, Ross Wallace? 

You are one of the more sensible posters on here , but I can’t for the life of me understand why you are so quick to defend a manager who blew our greatest chance of success and left us in a poorer state than when he arrived 

I don't defend how he played it was shocking to watch and was glad to see him go …..what I will contest though is the that he's the one responsible for the financial state of the club coz he clearly isn't . as for transfers dealings having the final say on a list of players that the advisors/agents/committee give you isn't the same as signing players you'd like . 

[The Wall]

3 hours ago, OWLERTON GHOST said:

Because you wouldn't like it ..

 

Classic Owlstalk....

[Socialist_Owl]

4 hours ago, torryowl said:

that's not what chansiri said at the steering group meeting last November  or carlos said  only the other week ……..

Carlos also said he supported Swans as a kid.

 

 

[hawksmore]

On 18/09/2018 at 13:25, @owlstalk said:

Hence the main reason people have a grudge

We're the ones left with paying the price for years to come

Why some fans still defend this absolute travesty of a time under Carlos I will never know because 99% of the issues at this football club have come directly from his actions

 

Lol come on, let's at least apply some logic here. 

 

A few things to consider which you've thrown out before but never backed up with anything of note:

 

- fitness issues - how can these be solely attributed to carlos, we have a full s&c team as well as having a medical team too

- he was set the goal of achieving promotion within 2 years - no sane coach would opt for untested youth over seasoned pro's like boyd and jones who had been promoted before

- additionally in season 1 he had doyen, plus roeder early on to help with transfers, 2nd season they were gone so how was he supposed to magic up a full scouting network so quickly to again challenge for promotion

- Hirt situation was not his fault 

- DC has said buying rhodes was the fans fault as they wanted him, look what that did to our finances

- i dare say carlos didn't agree the contracts for the players either

- how was the kit arriving late, poor stock in the shop, high ticket prices, cakeball all carlos fault?!

 

I agree that the football in his second season was awful, we were grinding out results and it seemed like we were robbing teams, but it was workingso he wasn't going to change it. Early on in his first season we played 3 up front and it wasn't working so he changed it as everyone was going mad about it. 

 

He had his hands tied to an extent and anyone can see that the real problems came from much higher up, from the same guy who said he only sacked carlos because of the fans. Carlos was never going to take us up, but it's weird how he gets so much stick with such ridiculous unsubstantiated claims on here. Also the swansea job was pretty much an impossible task too, but at one point it looked as if he was going to keep them up, despite them having a poor squad with many injuries. 

[@owlstalk]

38 minutes ago, hawksmore said:

- DC has said buying rhodes was the fans fault as they wanted him, look what that did to our finances

 

I'll take just one sentence from your Carlos loving excuse ridden post

This one about Rhodes

Carlos said he nodded this deal through recently 

The issue I have with Carlos fans is not that they've been taken in by a salesman (although that's annoying), it's that they blindly defend Carlos without any use of facts or historical evidence.

They just say "yeah you can't blame Carlos for stuff that went wrong under his time here"

 

[hawksmore]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

 

I'll take just one sentence from your Carlos loving excuse ridden post

This one about Rhodes

Carlos said he nodded this deal through recently 

The issue I have with Carlos fans is not that they've been taken in by a salesman (although that's annoying), it's that they blindly defend Carlos without any use of facts or historical evidence.

They just say "yeah you can't blame Carlos for stuff that went wrong under his time here"

 

 

The fact you’re only capable of taking one sentence and offering such a meek counter shows it’s just a personal issue you have, rather than one substantiated with any sort of tangible evidence. 

 

I don’t have a love in, I was calling for him to go months before he actually did as the football was so terrible to watch. 

 

I just find it weird when people go on about things like fitness, 99% of the clubs problems being down to 1 guy when it’s clearly not true. 

 

Try applying some critical thinking.