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Sheffield Wednesday: Reach’s verdict on Forestieri’s fight for an Owls starting role


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2 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Play the game Zedders,  you've been mentioning Nuhiu a for most of the debate!

 

 

 

The second yellow was for a kick I thought.

 

He might have been hung out to dry. Nuhiu certainly was...

 

I think Jos has been very consistent with regard to Forestieri.

 

As I said. I'm sure he'll be in the side sooner rather than later.

 

Play the game what game? At least be honest Snoots.

 

Nuhiu wasnt mentioned ONCE in this thread, until @Holmowl decided to bizarrely quote Nuhiu's goal stats (including last seasons). 

 

Why do think @Holmowl felt the need to do this?

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4 minutes ago, zzmdu said:

 

Play the game what game? At least be honest Snoots.

 

Nuhiu wasnt mentioned ONCE in this thread, until @Holmowl decided to bizarrely quote Nuhiu's goal stats (including last seasons). 

 

Why do think @Holmowl felt the need to do this?

 

Well thats not actually true is it.

Because Holmowl was only replying to sheri who mentioned Nuhiu playing like a drain in just the 5th post of the thread.

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1 minute ago, zzmdu said:

 

All your fault then lol

 

You did mention Atty in one sentence, but it was predictable that one of a few posters would jump all over it.

 

As i said in another post it is not an either or.................i was using it as a yardstick to discuss the differing treatment.

I don`t think anyone can deny that Athde has been cut much more slack this season than FF , regardless of whether you think he has earned it.

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9 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

Why is everyone getting their knickers in a twist?

We aren't good enough to leave him out for long....the manager will know this as well as we do.

 

He's made his point.

 

What point? Still not getting this. What point did JOS have/want to make?

 

FF has played well, scored 2 in 3 starts, and then was one of the better player in a 2 nil defeat aginat one of the strongest teams in the div.

 

PLENTY of players did worse than FF, what point did JOS make about them?

 

IMO he's competed a well known maneuver, for a newish boss. Take out the biggest kid in the playground, so everyone takes notice. I'm sure this used to feature in every episode of Prisoner Cell Block H..

Edited by zzmdu
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3 minutes ago, zzmdu said:

 

What point? Still not getting this. What point did JOS have/want to make?

 

FF has played well, scored 2 in 3 starts, and then was one of the better player in a 2 nil defeat aginat one of the strongest teams in the div.

 

PLENTY of players did worse than FF, what point did JOS make about them?

 

IMO he's competed a well known maneuver, for a newish boss. Take out the biggest kid in the playground, so everyone takes notice. 

The point was that he would require 100% or he could sit on the bench.

Your last paragraph could go a long way to answering your own question.

Reach claims that he was looking for the correct reaction when he got his chance.

 

 

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Just now, Costello 77 said:

The point was that he would require 100% or he could sit on the bench.

Your last paragraph could go a long way to answering your own question.

Reach claims that he was looking for the correct reaction when he got his chance.

 

 

 

I get that Reach was answering a question from a Journalist, but surely to god, he should have kept stum.

 

Imagine you're FF, you've very nearly fired you team to the Prem, over 2 season and look at his situation now.

 

The manager castates him in public, he must now feel that he'e being watched, to see if he has learnt his lesson (what figgin lesson), and now other players are discussing his return in the media, likes he's some kind of pet project. Some naught boy that been told off and now can join the 'rest of the group', so long as he behaves.

 

IMO FF's situation can't be far of untenable. If he does (justifiable) IMO throw the dummy out, of course he'll be to blame.

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4 minutes ago, zzmdu said:

 

IMO FF's situation can't be far off untenable. If he does (justifiable) IMO throw the dummy out, of course he'll be to blame.

 

But he's just put in two terrific performances from the bench and showed clearly that he's buying into the managers tactics and plans...

 

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3 minutes ago, zzmdu said:

 

I get that Reach was answering a question from a Journalist, but surely to god, he should have kept stum.

 

Imagine you're FF, you've very nearly fired you team to the Prem, over 2 season and look at his situation now.

 

The manager castates him in public, he must now feel that he'e being watched, to see if he has learnt his lesson (what figgin lesson), and now other players are discussing his return in the media, likes he's some kind of pet project. Some naught boy that been told off and now can join the 'rest of the group', so long as he behaves.

 

IMO FF's situation can't be far of untenable. If he does (justifiable) IMO throw the dummy out, of course he'll be to blame.

Well....he was forgiven the last time he did it so he might as well do it again...the lovable little scamp.lol

Edited by Costello 77
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1 hour ago, I Love Sturrock said:

When Forestieri plays on the left-wing or as a left-forward, he does work hard making forward runs, but he only works hard defensively when it suits him and it's guaranteed to get the crowd to clap him, like a lung-busting run to close down someone who's just tackled him. He doesn't do the defensive dirty work that nobody notices to help the full-back/wing-back behind him, like tracking a runner if the full-back gets sucked by somebody else on that side. Matias isn't perfect, but he does this dirty work for the man behind him much more.

 

This is even more important at the moment when the person playing on that side is Matt Penney, because the last thing a developing young lad needs is for Forestieri to hang him out to dry. Maybe Penney's looked so confident because Forestieri hasn't been playing in front of him.

 

The last three managers Forestieri's played under (Jokanovic, Carvalhal and Luhukay) haven't had a clue how to use him, because if you play him as a striker, he gets bullied and doesn't have space to run at people, but if you play him as left-winger or left-forward, he sulks (because he prefers playing as a striker) and doesn't do the defensive dirty work to help the full-back behind him.

 

Jokanovic put him on the bench a lot in Watford's promotion season (Deeney and Vydra were untouchable up-front and Forestieri couldn't play on the wing because of the reasons stated) and the club were happy to sell him to us in the end. Carvalhal tried playing Forestieri as a striker but he'd get bullied and go missing a lot as a result, but because of the refusal to track back on the wing, Carlos ended up putting him on the bench and only playing him on the left-wing when we were losing and going for broke anyway. Luhukay has clearly not been impressed with his attitude in the slightest so far, and prefers Matias on the wing instead because he'll do the dirty work.

 

Forestieri apologists who've been questioning Luhukay's sanity for leaving him out might want to consider that there's a common thread running though the last three managers he's had.

 

Superb post.

 

However, I have some hope that Jos has a firm idea where he sees Jos playing, and that right now he is in the process of making that very clear to him.

 

From what we have seen so far, it does appear that his position with Jos is going to be wide left of a three. If Jos succeeds where Carlos failed we will be in a great place.

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16 minutes ago, zzmdu said:

 

I get that Reach was answering a question from a Journalist, but surely to god, he should have kept stum.

 

Imagine you're FF, you've very nearly fired you team to the Prem, over 2 season and look at his situation now.

 

The manager castates him in public, he must now feel that he'e being watched, to see if he has learnt his lesson (what figgin lesson), and now other players are discussing his return in the media, likes he's some kind of pet project. Some naught boy that been told off and now can join the 'rest of the group', so long as he behaves.

 

IMO FF's situation can't be far of untenable. If he does (justifiable) IMO throw the dummy out, of course he'll be to blame.

 

You should maybe read this..

 

https://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/whelan-you-dont-need-attitudes/151990?aff=1197317997&dcmp=SL_TWITTER_PLTablePrediction_0409

 


Owlstalk Shop

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, zzmdu said:

 

What point? Still not getting this. What point did JOS have/want to make?

 

FF has played well, scored 2 in 3 starts, and then was one of the better player in a 2 nil defeat aginat one of the strongest teams in the div.

 

PLENTY of players did worse than FF, what point did JOS make about them?

 

IMO he's competed a well known maneuver, for a newish boss. Take out the biggest kid in the playground, so everyone takes notice. I'm sure this used to feature in every episode of Prisoner Cell Block H..

Why do you keep spelling JOS in capitals?

Is there a subliminal message there?

Genuine question.

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Remember that Foretieri is awating judgement from the FA for hitting a player in the face... likely to bring in at least a 3-game ban. Is Jos pre-empting us not putting all our eggs in 1 basket?

 

Also, and I think more relevant, FF has been very petulant and selfish in the games that I have seen him (I missed the Wolves game admittedly). Against Milwall, he had 2 clear occasions when he could've slipped a teammate in for a simple tap-in to seal the game, but went for glory and missed, thereby putting us under pressure. Milwall's goal was as a direct result of him petulantly idling his way back onside that meant when we (can't remember the player) were looking to pass to him, we realised he was offside and had to look to pass somewhere else that wasn't an option... we lost the ball, Milwall went down the other end and (Lees and Dawson fluff) scored - we wouldn't have been put in that position if he had got his lazy but back on side. These are the things that managers see when analysing the game and will have frustrated the life out of him. Even after the game, when all the subs did a warm-down, FF was walking the pitch whilst the others did lap upon lap. He has a petulant body language this season, and if he's like that in training, then I fully support Jos in leaving him out!

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34 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

It difficult to say that the Top Scorer (and arguably performer) in our 2 play off seasons, needs removing from the team, because of his attitude. And that removal will improve the team.

 

He wasn't the only player absent through injury, last season,. but his enforced absence last year, didn't appear to do us any favours.

 

Edited by zzmdu
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FF and Nuihu are both massively over rated players, but they are also very different too, not just in ability, but key attributes too. 

 

The difference being, FF is still a decent Championship level player, whereas Nuihu is at best mid table level.

 

The key however, is that Jos knows what he wants and expects from them, in that Nuihu is much better than FF at playing the specific role that Jos sets him. 

 

This is how good managers show their true worth, the likes of Warnock, getting a bunch of misfits promoted with Cardiff. If the manager knows the players capabilities, he is better positioned to get a better overall performance out of them for the team. Something FF struggles with. 

 

Pelupessy is similar to Nuihu, in that he doesn't want loads of freedom, he wants a role and clear instructions and with that he will give his all. 

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