The future of Joao

[NorthernOwl]

1 hour ago, cookeh said:

 

It's not really changing the way we play. we played a front 2 a lot last season. we played nuhiu a lot last season. we probably would have played fletch a lot if not for injuries. so just putting rhodes on the park on a regular basis isnt really "changing the way we play".

 

Even if he's not that great in a front 3, and he ends up just being really good in a front 2, then.. well.. that's fine. How long have we been saying we need a play b? so if we know the opponent is strong at fullback and tends to pack the middle of the park, then we're going to want to start with a front 2 and 3 in the mid. I'm absolutely fine with players not playing every single game because we have players who better fit the needed system than they do.

 

We want different options and having players who excel at specific things is fine. Semedo wasn't around for so long because of his distribution.. he came on, he did a fairly limited job of just trying to block and break things up and that was it. If we're going to regularly switch between a front 2 and a front 3, as seems likely, then having a guy who excels in a front 2 seems like a great idea to me. Kind of like a wide right forward player with some skill and pace would be a really good signing. If we play a front 2, he won't get a game. but when we play 3 he'll be vital.

 

We all like hooper, but his age, injury record and contract all spell exit door for him this summer. I feel like we're going to need Rhodes next season.. or we're going to need to replace him at least, should he go.

 

All well and good but Rhodes is the type of player who needs to play week in week out to do well. If he's in and out of the team he's shown he doesn't perform. 

[cookeh]

2 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

All well and good but Rhodes is the type of player who needs to play week in week out to do well. If he's in and out of the team he's shown he doesn't perform. 

 

That doesn't correlate with his games for us. When he's played full matches (or >60 minutes) he tends to find the net. Relatively few of those games have come in sequences. The main pattern of his use during his time with us is 3-4 10-20 min sub appearances followed by a start. So he's been in and out of the side, and yet still finds the net when coming into the side.

 

e.g. under Carlos earlier this season.

his minutes when he played from September to mid October:
12, 26, 22, 28, 1, 45, 16, 87 (scored), 73 (scored).
So came into the side and score.

 

skipping to late November:

8,45, 90 (scored).

And the Hull game.. benched for 4 games in a row, then got 7 minutes. Then 87 against Hull and scored.

 

So i don't think there's a real case to make for him needing to be in the starting line up week in, week out in order to find the net. It really does seem that he just needs to actually play.
 

[Walt]

3 hours ago, cookeh said:

 

That doesn't correlate with his games for us. When he's played full matches (or >60 minutes) he tends to find the net. Relatively few of those games have come in sequences. The main pattern of his use during his time with us is 3-4 10-20 min sub appearances followed by a start. So he's been in and out of the side, and yet still finds the net when coming into the side.

 

e.g. under Carlos earlier this season.

his minutes when he played from September to mid October:
12, 26, 22, 28, 1, 45, 16, 87 (scored), 73 (scored).
So came into the side and score.

 

skipping to late November:

8,45, 90 (scored).

And the Hull game.. benched for 4 games in a row, then got 7 minutes. Then 87 against Hull and scored.

 

So i don't think there's a real case to make for him needing to be in the starting line up week in, week out in order to find the net. It really does seem that he just needs to actually play.
 

Where do you get those stats mate? I've got the following (league games): Suppose it doesn't take into account if he gets subbed at half time.

2016/2017 Rhodes starts 14, goals 3

2017/2018 Rhodes starts 17, goals 5

[DIPPS_S.W.F.C]

On 23/05/2018 at 16:39, fred mciver said:

No one will buy Rhodes on 40k per week.

 

He feeds off a target man and we are going route 1 to Atty.

 

From Reach's crosses, the goals will come for both these strikers.

Hes not on 40k a week ffs...

[cookeh]

On 25/05/2018 at 19:14, Walt said:

Where do you get those stats mate? I've got the following (league games): Suppose it doesn't take into account if he gets subbed at half time.

2016/2017 Rhodes starts 14, goals 3

2017/2018 Rhodes starts 17, goals 5

 

His appearance data on transfermarkt.

[dorian gray]

On 21/05/2018 at 21:09, Watson said:

Next season needs to kick on and aim for 20 goals if he gets the playing time and plays to his ability he's more than capable of achieving this. 

i'd figure a fully fit side would have nuhiu with hooper up top, and that's IF were going 2 up.

[dorian gray]

On 21/05/2018 at 22:31, Southie_Owl said:

Joao should be seen as a first team striker next season and let’s see what he can do. More important is ensuring they get decent supply to him, so a new creative midfielder/winger may be needed to help 

who do we drop?

[OxonOwl]

Everyone has to earn their place. It is not about what Hooper did last year or what Nuhiu has done these last few months but what Jos sees in pre season.

 

Trust in Jos!

[fred mciver]

Unless he signs a new contract now, sadly he has to go.

 

Especially as we need to re-balance squad, with 8 strikers already.

 

And need dosh - am thinking ex -suitors Wigan and Blackburn for £5 mil. minimum. 

 

Plus 30% sell on.

 

We don't want Doyen nicking another one for free.

Edited May 29, 2018 by fred mciver

[Southie_Owl]

4 hours ago, dnhc said:

who do we drop?

 

Personally I would be playing Joao with Forestieri and either Hooper or Nuhiu, in a front 3.  Rhodes and Winnall can be moved on and Fletcher may still have some use. 

[swfc-dan]

On 21/05/2018 at 21:26, torryowl said:

always thought he was a bit rubbish but since he got back into the team he's certainly won me over ......how he gets into the side next season if hooper is fit I don't know but it's a good problem for jos to have .

We can't rely on Hooper now getting back to his best after a huge layoff. He never was the fittest either, sure he can play a Rhodes poachers role but not sure his pace/work rate will be up to scratch anymore as hes getting on for a striker.

 

Joao offers a lot more in terms of creating chances but his finishing is unreliable. Id definately want to keep Joao as hes not far away from becoming a gem.

 

With Adthes transformation and Jos preference for young players, I think Joao will play a big part and it will be Hooper playing the role of super sub which could be a great formula. Just like pre 2018 Adthe, all hes missing is more conistency in front of goal.

[Southie_Owl]

In my opinion Joao is a bit of a Andy Cole type striker. Yes he sometimes needs a few chances to score but i’d still back him to score 20+ goals next season if he starts  games and we improve the creativity in the side, which we did in the 343 formation. 

[Inspector Lestrade]

5 hours ago, dnhc said:

i'd figure a fully fit side would have nuhiu with hooper up top, and that's IF were going 2 up.

 

Can't see Nuhiu and Hopper working, Joao with anyone would work.  Dare I say Joao, Hooper, with Matias and FF?

 

Sorry, Nuhiu it's back to the bench for you ... for now. 

[Southie_Owl]

10 minutes ago, Watson said:

 

Can't see Nuhiu and Hopper working, Joao with anyone would work.  Dare I say Joao, Hooper, with Matias and FF?

 

Sorry, Nuhiu it's back to the bench for you ... for now. 

 

Yes I think we have some good options for the 3 players ahead of the midfield, with Joao, Forestieri, Hooper, Nuhiu, Matias and I’ll whisper it, a fit Abdi, hahaha. But seriously, we can maybe throw in a young Preston there too. 

 

Plus theres Fletcher, Winnall and Rhodes if they aren’t moved on.

 

If Matias and Abdi, hahaha, aren’t going to be fit enough then we may need one more creative forward player to the squad. Otherwise I think our attack is alright for a promotion challenge 

[Inspector Lestrade]

2 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

 

Yes I think we have some good options for the 3 players ahead of the midfield, with Joao, Forestieri, Hooper, Nuhiu, Matias and I’ll whisper it, a fit Abdi, hahaha. But seriously, we can maybe throw in a young Preston there too. 

 

Plus theres Fletcher, Winnall and Rhodes if they aren’t moved on.

 

If Matias and Abdi, hahaha, aren’t going to be fit enough then we may need one more creative forward player to the squad. Otherwise I think our attack is alright for a promotion challenge 

 

Quite agree not the biggest fan of having a big man up front but on his day Fletcher can be very effective and Winnall should he come back has proven that he knows where the goal is.

 

Running with a fit squad we should give most teams major headaches, especially if Jos lets them off the lead.  

[dorian gray]

19 minutes ago, Watson said:

 

Can't see Nuhiu and Hopper working, Joao with anyone would work.  Dare I say Joao, Hooper, with Matias and FF?

 

Sorry, Nuhiu it's back to the bench for you ... for now. 

yes but don't forget we'll need cover for matias once october, november, december, january, and february come along.

[Southie_Owl]

6 minutes ago, Watson said:

 

Quite agree not the biggest fan of having a big man up front but on his day Fletcher can be very effective and Winnall should he come back has proven that he knows where the goal is.

 

Running with a fit squad we should give most teams major headaches, especially if Jos lets them off the lead.  

 

Yes we saw at the end of the season when Jos played 343 that we steam rolled teams at S6 with our attack. I’d rather we are set up to win games 5-4 than 1-0, as I think creating and scoring goals is the best way to get promotion. The Keegan Man City way is how I hope we’ll do it.  None of this, we’re 1-0 up so let’s take off a striker business 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Southie_Owl

[Inspector Lestrade]

2 minutes ago, Southie_Owl said:

 

Yes we saw at the end of the season when Jos played 343 that we steam rolled teams at S6 with our attack. I’d rather we are set up to win games 5-4 than 1-0, as I think creating and scoring goals is the best way to get promotion. The Keegan Man City way is how I hope we’ll do it.  None of this, we’re 1-0 up so let’s take off a striker business 

 

I can't see Jos having that mentality but he certainly should let teams worry about us instead of us worrying about them.  

[Daizan10]

As John Pearson likes to tell us. He has the potential and ability to be the best player we have had for a long time. 

 

Sign him up!

[dorian gray]

On 29/05/2018 at 17:03, Southie_Owl said:

 

Yes we saw at the end of the season when Jos played 343 that we steam rolled teams at S6 with our attack. I’d rather we are set up to win games 5-4 than 1-0, as I think creating and scoring goals is the best way to get promotion. The Keegan Man City way is how I hope we’ll do it.  None of this, we’re 1-0 up so let’s take off a striker business 

every fan in the land wants their team to score plenty and win, BUT management has to have a professional (using your head) approach, so it's a tad likely that you'll not see us winning 5-4, but WILL see more 1-0's.

we'd all like to score 5 and win every week, so would jos, but he'll temper that with 'proper football knowledge' that says scoring a hatfull and winning all the time just isn't going to happen.