The future of Joao

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

7 minutes ago, Blatter said:

Sounds like a few have switched allegiance from get rid of Nuhiu, not good enough,, to get rid of Joao, not good enough.

To be fair there have always been both and both wrong IMO.

[cookeh]

Not sure he has the mentality to score 20 goals a season. You've generally got to be clinical to score 20, and Joao's just not. He misses a lot, he still drifts out of games for the entirety.

 

Tbh I hadn't really considered it prior to this thread, but to me there is now a question whether to retain him. With 12 months left and his "Let's see if i stay", i think i'd listen to offers.

 

There's a good player in there, but he's not managed to come out for an extended period. I'ld like to see him under Jos, but with Fletch and Hooper coming back next season, and the fact we'd lose him for nothing in 12 months, maybe it is worth seeing what people will offer for him.

[OwlinOldham]

2 hours ago, Blatter said:

He's our only forward with any real pace. His return to scoring form coincided with new coaches arriving at the club and circumstances dictating he had more game time. For me he should start along with Atdhe.

Defenders struggled greatly at the latter end of the season with that combination of skill, height, strength and pace and goals flowed. A new contract should be in order for joao.

Any two from Rhodes, Matias, Winnall and Fletcher would not really be missed and would still leave a good strike force.

 

Im not going to disagree with what you say. The issue we have is Joao is currently worth something where as Rhodes, Matias and Fletcher arent.

 

Rhodes needs to be sold for millions before we dont make a loss and his current forms not going to get that. Matias has hardly played so probably doesnt have any value and Fletcher is the wrong end of his career on big wages and a long contract. None of them will be likely to be shifted with enough of any relevance done to ease FFP for us. Ive deliberately not included Winnall as i like many others already consider him already sold for 3.5 to 5 mill whem fit. Add 7 million for Joao to that and we could easily balance things up back into our favour.

 

Not opposed to us keeping him as i think theres defo a player there. Just would rather sell him than one of Fessi, Bannan, Lees, Hooper or Westwood. Beteen them thats the bones of a very very good championship team.

[vulture_squadron]

19 hours ago, Not Jon Newsome said:

Our most complete striker, we need to tie him down. 

Where's Reda? 

[brando]

6 hours ago, NYowl said:

I think these 3 will start the season as they finished the season on great form. They seem to compliment each other nicely each having different attributes.

 

Having said that I think we will see a big improvement from Fletcher under Jos.

 

Hooper suited Carlos,s style and was by far our best forward in his system. Not sure he will have the same impact under Jos.

Hooper,FF and Fletcher when all fit our best front 3 by a counry mile

[brando]

9 hours ago, Spookone said:

 

I think you could always see he had a lot of potential, but some players have potential that they never realise. Hopefully playing regularly under the right coach can show him to be the player he has the potential to be.

 

Has to be aiming for 16+ goals next season and we need to extend his contract rather than seeing him go on a free at some point.

none of our strikers will get 16 goals next season unless we bring Chris Martin in for 500k

[Rogerwyldesmullet]

23 hours ago, Theboylangers said:

He's our Paolo Wanchope, he will create from nothing, he will frustrate but he will always have that something that can turn a game. 

 

 

 

Great call. Blast from the past if ever there was one. Imagine Lucas telling his mates: “I’m the new Paolo One Chop!!”

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

2 hours ago, brando said:

Hooper,FF and Fletcher when all fit our best front 3 by a counry mile

Swap Nuhiu for Fletcher and you'd be correct.

[darra]

The fact that Joao to some extent and Nuhiu became the players we'd hope they'd be under Luhuky I think they deserve the chance to "prove" themselves again

[gurujuan]

14 hours ago, cookeh said:

Not sure he has the mentality to score 20 goals a season. You've generally got to be clinical to score 20, and Joao's just not. He misses a lot, he still drifts out of games for the entirety.

 

Tbh I hadn't really considered it prior to this thread, but to me there is now a question whether to retain him. With 12 months left and his "Let's see if i stay", i think i'd listen to offers.

 

There's a good player in there, but he's not managed to come out for an extended period. I'ld like to see him under Jos, but with Fletch and Hooper coming back next season, and the fact we'd lose him for nothing in 12 months, maybe it is worth seeing what people will offer for him.

On his day, he is the most clinical finisher at the club Nearly every one of his goals last season was a sublime finish

I would agree though, he probably isn’t a 20 goal a season man, but he offers so much more than that

I think those old 20 goal a season men are a thing of the past, unless they have other attributes they can bring to the team

[torryowl]

he scored 9 goals in 1769 minutes so no reason that if he was to play a full season that he wouldn't be able  hit over 20 if he maintains the form he showed of late . …….

[Sticky belly]

28 minutes ago, torryowl said:

he scored 9 goals in 1769 minutes so no reason that if he was to play a full season that he wouldn't be able  hit over 20 if he maintains the form he showed of late . …….

 

Exactly, it's a confidence game. Who would have thought before the season that Nuhiu was capable of such a scoring spree. Not many that's for sure. As Gurujuan says above some of Joao's goals this year were brilliant. A run in the side and a coherent team that actually has a game plan will do wonders for any player and there is no reason why he cannot do it if he starts every week and the team is playing well.

[cookeh]

51 minutes ago, Sticky belly said:

 

Exactly, it's a confidence game. Who would have thought before the season that Nuhiu was capable of such a scoring spree. Not many that's for sure. As Gurujuan says above some of Joao's goals this year were brilliant. A run in the side and a coherent team that actually has a game plan will do wonders for any player and there is no reason why he cannot do it if he starts every week and the team is playing well.

 

Applying that logic of it being a confidence game, and Jos putting out a coherent team with a game plan, i'd rather have an 'all guns firing' Rhodes than Joao. I'm right there with you in terms of 'Joao can get you out of your seat', but he is inconsistent.. and inconsistency doesn't get you promoted.

 

"9 goals in 1769 minutes = 20 goals" well, then Nuhiu is a 20 goal stirker, so it Hooper, so is Nando, so is Rhodes, so is Winnall. I think if i'm honest I still trust Joao and Nuhiu the least in terms of doing it over a season tho.

 

But as has been said numerous times.. we've got an embarrassment of riches up front. We need to slim down a bit in that dept.. and it'll be really interesting to see what Jos does. Joao's contract situation, and his "lets see if i stay" just leaves me thinking we're at risk of losing him for nothing.

[gurujuan]

41 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

Applying that logic of it being a confidence game, and Jos putting out a coherent team with a game plan, i'd rather have an 'all guns firing' Rhodes than Joao. I'm right there with you in terms of 'Joao can get you out of your seat', but he is inconsistent.. and inconsistency doesn't get you promoted.

 

"9 goals in 1769 minutes = 20 goals" well, then Nuhiu is a 20 goal stirker, so it Hooper, so is Nando, so is Rhodes, so is Winnall. I think if i'm honest I still trust Joao and Nuhiu the least in terms of doing it over a season tho.

 

But as has been said numerous times.. we've got an embarrassment of riches up front. We need to slim down a bit in that dept.. and it'll be really interesting to see what Jos does. Joao's contract situation, and his "lets see if i stay" just leaves me thinking we're at risk of losing him for nothing.

Slimming down the striking department, as we all know, will be difficult

In an ideal world, I’d offload Fletcher, Rhodes and Winnall They look more like League One strikers with every passing day Sadly though, they are not on League One wages, and will be hard to shift

Certainly though, I wouldn’t keep any of the them at the expense of Nuhiu, Joao or Forestieri 

[cookeh]

Just now, gurujuan said:

Slimming down the striking department, as we all know, will be difficult

In an ideal world, I’d offload Fletcher, Rhodes and Winnall They look more like League One strikers with every passing day Sadly though, they are not on League One wages, and will be hard to shift

Certainly though, I wouldn’t keep any of the them at the expense of Nuhiu, Joao or Forestieri 

 

in what way are fletch and winnall (both injured) looking more like league one players every day? add rhodes in for fun.. how can anyone can look more and more like a worse player during the summer months?

 

please explain.

[gurujuan]

4 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

in what way are fletch and winnall (both injured) looking more like league one players every day? add rhodes in for fun.. how can anyone can look more and more like a worse player during the summer months?

 

please explain.

Football has changed at Championship level, they don’t have the neccesary skills set for the modern game They’d be bit part players for any club with top flight aspirations

[Bouncing Owl]

2 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Football has changed at Championship level, they don’t have the neccesary skills set for the modern game They’d be bit part players for any club with top flight aspirations

 

I agree re; Rhodes and Winnall. I think a fit Fletcher can do a good job in the Championship. He’s a handful and he has a good all round game up front. He does have a tendency to miss a lot of sitters tho. 

 

Fletcher isnt going nowhere given his age, contract and injury problems last season. I hope we can offload Rhodes in the summer and I’m hoping that Winnall is making a good recovery where we can offload him too. Hes clearly a tail and doesn’t want to be here. He got injured in early February so there is a chance he could be nearing a return in September. 

[cookeh]

21 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

Football has changed at Championship level, they don’t have the neccesary skills set for the modern game They’d be bit part players for any club with top flight aspirations

 

'Football has changed' - lovely smokescreen.

That's a nice way of saying something without actually saying anything.

None of them are becoming league one players more and more each day.

That's just silly hyperbole.

 

There's very obvious reasons why Rhodes has struggled so far.

There's an obvious reason Fletch hasn't had an impressive season.

There's obvious reasons that Winnall is in the position he is as well.

 

But no.. let's go for "football has changed". It's vague enough and silly enough that people might buy it instead of just accepting the blindingly obvious. 10/10.

 

 

[gurujuan]

42 minutes ago, cookeh said:

 

'Football has changed' - lovely smokescreen.

That's a nice way of saying something without actually saying anything.

None of them are becoming league one players more and more each day.

That's just silly hyperbole.

 

There's very obvious reasons why Rhodes has struggled so far.

There's an obvious reason Fletch hasn't had an impressive season.

There's obvious reasons that Winnall is in the position he is as well.

 

But no.. let's go for "football has changed". It's vague enough and silly enough that people might buy it instead of just accepting the blindingly obvious. 10/10.

 

 

The obvious reason that links all three of them, is their limited football skills

You watch football at this level every week, tell me it hasn’t changed massively over the last 2 or 3 years

Look at the pinnacle of the game in England, the national team now plays in a way we could only have dreamed of a few years back The same in the Premier League, and now it’s filtered down to the Championship Look at the quality of player the league can attract now Also the standard of coaching is far more sophisticated these days It’s not a smokescreen it’s real, you watch football, you must see it 

[cookeh]

5 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

The obvious reason that links all three of them, is their limited football skills

You watch football at this level every week, tell me it hasn’t changed massively over the last 2 or 3 years

Look at the pinnacle of the game in England, the national team now plays in a way we could only have dreamed of a few years back The same in the Premier League, and now it’s filtered down to the Championship Look at the quality of player the league can attract now Also the standard of coaching is far more sophisticated these days It’s not a smokescreen it’s real, you watch football, you must see it 

 

limited football skills. :D

 

i certainly haven't seen a _massive_ change.

I'm not sure why i'd watch the England team (we're not all English here).

I'm also not sure why how England plays affects Rhodes' ability to head a ball or Fletch's hold up play.

Most of the Premier League is made up of halfwit cloggers. If there's been a massive change it's been a drop in quality in the top league. Ironic given the funds they now have.

But your Championship staples of QPR, Ipswich, Notts Forest.. they're not playing expansive, fast paced, highly technical football. Rhodes, Fletch and Winnall would be head and shoulders first choices at all of them, and flourish. Winnall flourished at Derby, albeit off the bench, but he still scored a goal every 110 minutes, which is better than every single one of our players this season.

 

There's been a few teams who play decent football in the championship, but for each of those there's one who's just rank rotten. Maybe you're seeing the opposition as being better because we've been playing with the reserves all season. Who knows.

 

Fact remains.. there are simple and obvious reasons why Winnall, Rhodes and Fletch have had the seasons they've had. None of those reasons are that they're are limited skill wise, or because they're league one level players. If you want to believe that they've become 'bad' (which i'll maintain they haven't. being bad and having a bad period are different things) because of some bizarre momentous shift in english football, then that's up to you. I'll stick with reality.