RUMBELOWS91 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 17 hours ago, Wakefield owl said: So you just accept that. From our players, the players whose wages we contribute towards. Not acceptable at all on any level to me. Just illustrates how little they care about the club - no shock there though. 20 something year old blokes slacking off a bit as a result of weak discipline from the management. Who'd have thought it? Blame on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, RUMBELOWS91 said: 20 something year old blokes slacking off a bit as a result of weak discipline from the management. Who'd have thought it? Blame on both sides. Really ? Many other sportsmen have to discipline themselves to be fit and practice without supervision, why should footballers be any different ? It is the long standing culture deep rooted in the game that leads to a "jack the lad" attitude. They are paid huge wages and have a responsibility to themselves, club and fans to be super fit and perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owler66 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Suppose if the previous coach isn't going to take responsibility you can't expect the players to do it either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 53 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said: Doesn't matter how many times you say it you are still wrong. Any player who doesn't toe the line will soon be out of the team. There is a hierarchy they have to respect. Carlos and his team will have had their reasons for setting the fitness regime as they did. The players may or may not have bought into those reasons but it is not up to them to make decisions of this nature. You may as well say as professionals they should have ignored Carlos's tactics because they knew they were garbage. Clubs do not spend vast sums on fitness and conditioning coaches only to let the players themselves choose what fitness work to carry out. It has nothing to do with toeing the line and players doing what they want, it's about being in the best shape that you can be to do your job. An experienced dedicated 28 years old pro goes through pre season and finds at the end of it he isn't at the same standards as he was in previous years. He has all the relevant data to back this up, although he will know through experience that he isn't at those same previous levels. What does he do about this? If he's got anything about him he will go and see the the fitness staff and raise his concerns showing them his factual data. This is not being him being an arse, it's him caring and wanting to be the best that he can. Any fitness coach should be able to address his concerns and may well tell him that they are changing the fitness work so that he and the group can be better for longer periods of the season instead of just being fit for the off. The fitness coach may also see the data and think, 'yes he has got a point' and we need to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 19 hours ago, Wakefield owl said: Finally one of our players accepts responsibility for our poor season - Adam Reach says he believes complacency crept in last season. By this I believe he means many/some of our players thought it acceptable not to be as fit as they could, perhaps mistakenly believing they were good enough to compete against fitter teams. Very noticeable that one of the few players beyond criticism should say this. This is a big reason why our squad needs a overhaul, some players have been milking the club. I don't understand why our fans accept this. Interesting to note that if Adam's comments had been about fitness, or lack of, then a thread would have been immediately opened and would now be several pages long, criticising the previous regime but absolving the players of any responsibility. Without a big change in attitude we won't be going anywhere again next season. Which players in your opinion (or you know as a fact) have been milking the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUMBELOWS91 Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Bob said: Really ? Many other sportsmen have to discipline themselves to be fit and practice without supervision, why should footballers be any different ? It is the long standing culture deep rooted in the game that leads to a "jack the lad" attitude. They are paid huge wages and have a responsibility to themselves, club and fans to be super fit and perform. I agree- but that culture manifests itself in many team sports - and it's down to the coach to manage the characters. If they're disciplined enough to looks after themselves, great (and I'm sure many of them are) but there'll often be a few 'bad eggs' that need to be kept in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialist_Owl Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Walt said: I keep repeating the same thing. A player will know if he’s fit or not. It really is that simple. You can dress it up all you want but that’s the bottom line. I’ve no doubt that the players will have spoken to each other about training, about how intense it is or isn’t and about how fit they are. If they have issues with it they as a group can make their feelings known, maybe some will moan like fizz if it’s hard, maybe some will happily take it being easy but they will know if they are honest with themselves if it’s getting the best out of them. The players will even have their fitness data available to them from over the years to prove how fit they are, if their current results are worse than previous years then it would be unprofessional not to act on this information. This isn't how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attyjake Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Why is everyone jumping on the fitness bandwagon, Reach never mentioned fitness, I think he was referring to mental attitude more than anything else players thinking they don't have to try as hard because the believed they were better than they actually are, that kind of thing. Just my opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umeeksk Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Worth remembering that most professional footballers are young, inexperienced people in their teens and 20s. Ask yourself - would you be fitter if you had a coach busting your balls every day, or if you had to motivate yourself? People in any organisation need leadership and coaching to do a better job, however motivated they are. All other things being equal, the coaching staff not taking responsibility for fitness is criminally incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umeeksk Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, attyjake said: Why is everyone jumping on the fitness bandwagon, Reach never mentioned fitness, I think he was referring to mental attitude more than anything else players thinking they don't have to try as hard because the believed they were better than they actually are, that kind of thing. Just my opinion! Just reacting to the OP. If you want to debunk it as a theory, feel free, but it'll help if you post a link to what Reach actually said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attyjake Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 35 minutes ago, Umeeksk said: Just reacting to the OP. If you want to debunk it as a theory, feel free, but it'll help if you post a link to what Reach actually said. Reach, who made 53 appearances in all competitions, notching four goals and chipping in with 11 assists, told The Star: “It’s natural sometimes complacency can creep in. “I’m not speaking on behalf of the squad. This is my opinion but maybe a bit of complacency crept in and we paid the price for that. “Over the summer and pre-season months, we will try to rectify that and we will come back in with a new attitude and a new hunger to do better.” Read more at: https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/sheffield-wednesday-adam-reach-makes-big-admission-over-the-owls-season-1-9164179 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakefield owl Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Socialist_Owl said: This isn't how it works. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakefield owl Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Watson said: Which players in your opinion (or you know as a fact) have been milking the club? Not going there for various reasons but I'm sure most of us are capable of identifying this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakefield owl Posted May 16, 2018 Author Share Posted May 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Walt said: It has nothing to do with toeing the line and players doing what they want, it's about being in the best shape that you can be to do your job. An experienced dedicated 28 years old pro goes through pre season and finds at the end of it he isn't at the same standards as he was in previous years. He has all the relevant data to back this up, although he will know through experience that he isn't at those same previous levels. What does he do about this? If he's got anything about him he will go and see the the fitness staff and raise his concerns showing them his factual data. This is not being him being an arse, it's him caring and wanting to be the best that he can. Any fitness coach should be able to address his concerns and may well tell him that they are changing the fitness work so that he and the group can be better for longer periods of the season instead of just being fit for the off. The fitness coach may also see the data and think, 'yes he has got a point' and we need to do something about it. And it's possible Reach saw examples of this happening hence the complacency comment. Perhaps he knows some players were not at the level they should have been but thought that was ok - it's fairly clear Reach doesn't. Probably should be our captain if we don't sell him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Lestrade Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Wakefield owl said: Not going there for various reasons but I'm sure most of us are capable of identifying this. No, go there it would make for an interesting debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialist_Owl Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Wakefield owl said: Why not? Fit? Subjective term. Each staff has it's own program to ensure "fitness". The responsibility of the player is to adhere to whatever program the staff has laid down. Nothing more. They contractually CANNOT. Edited May 16, 2018 by Socialist_Owl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Any management set up that allows players to be "complacent" or not as fit as they should be, is not fit for purpose. When I go to work, my boss makes sure thst I'm trained to the correct level and thst I'm doing my job properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 18 hours ago, Socialist_Owl said: Fit? Subjective term. Each staff has it's own program to ensure "fitness". The responsibility of the player is to adhere to whatever program the staff has laid down. Nothing more. They contractually CANNOT. Absolutely and their training stats will show exactly where they are fitness wise and will determine what they have to do. What hasn't been mentioned is players coming back from injury too soon and ending up being out long term OR the medical staff not being listened to. Jos said categorically with our players coming back that we will not take chances with any of them until the medical staff say it's ok regardless of where we were in the league. Now THAT'S a change in ethos no more short termism. Sounds to me that Jos has got it spot on. Let's look forward to next season with some optimism and forget what's gone before...it's the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialist_Owl Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I think we can all agree that Jos knows what to do re: training & fitness programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakefield owl Posted May 17, 2018 Author Share Posted May 17, 2018 On 16 May 2018 at 21:15, Socialist_Owl said: Fit? Subjective term. Each staff has it's own program to ensure "fitness". The responsibility of the player is to adhere to whatever program the staff has laid down. Nothing more. They contractually CANNOT. How do you know all this? How do all the stories about players staying behind after training to work on certain things fit in with this theory? What about Tom Lees season before last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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