Adam Reach - at last a player takes responsibility

[Wakefield owl]

23 minutes ago, Walt said:

 

Laughable. They are professional athletes, they get paid to be fit. It's their responsibility first and foremost.

We are not talking about kids here as our first team under CC was experienced pro's. They will know exactly how fit they need to be to play Championship football, just like any other athlete knows how fit they need to be to compete in their sport and exactly what they need to do to get to that standard. They will know exactly what works for them as they've been in an industry that gives them every bit of fitness, dietary and recovery information and equipment they need. Anyone who is into fitness will tell you the same, it's down to yourself to be the best that you can. You know when you are slacking.

 

This is probably the best post I've read over the past 12 months and not just because I agree with it. 

 

It points out the responsibilities professional sportsmen (and sportswoman) have. Can you imagine an athlete not performing in a race and then blaming the coach for not been fit enough? No, I can't either.

[MrTacoSWFC]

People who have a profession get paid to do that job... that doesn't mean those professional's don't get lazy or take shortcuts.. it's human nature. No one is perfect.

NOW for any profession structures are usually  in place to keep an eye on and monitor those individuals to ensure that the job or profession they do is carried out correctly and to certain standards. 

So... what I'm trying to get at is that not all players will have the same mind set as others. A player might have great talent but needs to be monitored and procedures in place to ensure that he's at the correct fitness levels. Some will be happy to work that bit extra and others my lack the same motivation. So under the regime of Carlos these procedures put into place were sub standard, the fitness levels were not maintained to a high level.

It's easy to say.. we pay towards their wages but we also put faith into the manager and coaching staff, they should ensure the players are fit and if they aren't it's their job to make sure they are.

[GY-owl.4]

Just now, Wakefield owl said:

 

This is probably the best post I've read over the past 12 months and not just because I agree with it. 

 

It points out the responsibilities professional sportsmen (and sportswoman) have. Can you imagine an athlete not performing in a race and then blaming the coach for not been fit enough? No, I can't either.

 

Lets be reyt all our players were fit. they trained, played matches, probably did do running on there own most of them,

but the level they had to reach to play CC style of football they obviously reached, CC was happy.

 

Our new man wants to make the fitness AS important as the ball work, he wants them to be one of the strongest in the league, still flying about at 95mins, so just like last year our professional athletes will be at the standard their boss demands.

 

our team will be better for it, but i say it again, it stems from the top. your blaming the wrong people.

[Plonk]

As an older contributor to this forum I have to say I’ve had a lot of “gaffers” in my working life. Some of them I loved working for, and put in an extra ten per cent. Some of them were absolute c@nts and my work suffered as a result. It’s human nature and I don’t think footballs any different. Wilco had a team of players that would run through brick walls. BFR had a team that were audacious in their style. But who will ever forget that 2 2 draw against nine men. That’s why good managers get paid a fortune. 

[Wakefield owl]

23 minutes ago, GY-owl.4 said:

 

Lets be reyt all our players were fit. they trained, played matches, probably did do running on there own most of them,

but the level they had to reach to play CC style of football they obviously reached, CC was happy.

 

Our new man wants to make the fitness AS important as the ball work, he wants them to be one of the strongest in the league, still flying about at 95mins, so just like last year our professional athletes will be at the standard their boss demands.

 

our team will be better for it, but i say it again, it stems from the top. your blaming the wrong people.

 

Fair points but I still think you're being too easy on the players. What about desire to be the best, to be the fittest - that comes from within not from a coach and it is lacking in some of our players. Maybe this is what Reach is alluding to - after all he is one of our fittest players.

[GY-owl.4]

1 minute ago, Wakefield owl said:

 

Fair points but I still think you're being too easy on the players. What about desire to be the best, to be the fittest - that comes from within not from a coach and it is lacking in some of our players. Maybe this is what Reach is alluding to - after all he is one of our fittest players.

 

When they come back for first day of pre-season they have certain requirements they have to meet. if they fail them, then sure they should be criticized and probably fined. but it shouldnt be terminal to their fitness for the season. 

 

the training that goes on together within the training ground walls should have them catching up in no time, even if they foookd up personally, the fact that it never (caught up) tells us all we need to know about our coaches standards to fitness.

 

Jos wont leave it in the players hands to do it alone away from the training ground. 

[Socialist_Owl]

2 hours ago, Wakefield owl said:

 

This is probably the best post I've read over the past 12 months and not just because I agree with it. 

 

It points out the responsibilities professional sportsmen (and sportswoman) have. Can you imagine an athlete not performing in a race and then blaming the coach for not been fit enough? No, I can't either.

You're out of touch with this antiquated thinking.  Professional sports players must comform with the proscribed training regimen as espoused by the manager.  You start doing training on your own, you're in direct violation of whatever program has been put in place by the staff.  If the training is half arsed, what is the player supposed to do? Risk incurring a contract-violating injury while training on his own?  Get real.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Socialist_Owl

[areNOTwhatTHEYseem]

6 hours ago, daztheowl said:

Can someone tell me how complacency equates to lack of fitness. 

 

Yours kindly

 

Mr Confused. 

 

It doesn't.

 

This thread is based on the OP's interpretation of what Reach means by 'complacent', but unless he's also commenting on the fitness levels of the Reading players as well as our medical staff, manager and chairman, I doubt that's all he's getting at. It seems to me he's making a wider point about the mentality of the entire club going into last season on the back of an unsuccessful playoff campaign.

 

“It was not just us (who were complacent),” stressed Reach, who was named the Owls Player of the Year. “It’s teams like Reading who came a penalty shoot-out away from reaching the Premier League and then they were on the brink of relegation.

 

“Every department of this club, whether it’s the players, the medical staff or higher up, need to look at themselves after every season whether it’s a positive or negative season and really think about how they can improve.”

[torryowl]

6 hours ago, Wakefield owl said:

 

Fair points but I still think you're being too easy on the players. What about desire to be the best, to be the fittest - that comes from within not from a coach and it is lacking in some of our players. Maybe this is what Reach is alluding to - after all he is one of our fittest players.

think it's understandable that most old pro's will just do the minimum required when it comes to training & fitness....they've  made there money from the game and know  that it's probably there last good contract so why bust a gut when it's obvious to them that they wont be getting a new one ......I know when I was coming up to retiring I just went thru the motions and no reason to think that most footballers wouldn't think the same . ........the responsibility lies with the people who employ them , if they cant get the best out of them then maybe they shouldn't have signed them in the first place and certainly not on highly paid long contracts .perhaps jos will crack the whip and make them work harder but he'll have a tough job putting some va va voom into the likes of jones ,boyd,fletch,abdi and few more of the millionaires who are winding down there careers .  

[shezzas left peg]

Kieron Lee did an interview a while back, think it was the end of Carlos first season. In this interview he mentioned when he was one of the young lads and another young lad had just signed "Ronaldo" "he mentioned in it how they would get to training and Ron would already be out on the training ground and how when him and his mates left to go home Ron would still be there for a few hours afterwards still. 

What I'm pointing out is dedication, if you want to be the best, you have to train to be the best, if our players weren't fit enough they obviously weren't dedicated enough 

[darklord]

11 minutes ago, shezzas left peg said:

Kieron Lee did an interview a while back, think it was the end of Carlos first season. In this interview he mentioned when he was one of the young lads and another young lad had just signed "Ronaldo" "he mentioned in it how they would get to training and Ron would already be out on the training ground and how when him and his mates left to go home Ron would still be there for a few hours afterwards still. 

What I'm pointing out is dedication, if you want to be the best, you have to train to be the best, if our players weren't fit enough they obviously weren't dedicated enough 

 

Dedications what you need if you wanna be a record breaker

[Owl999]

9 hours ago, Wakefield owl said:

 

That's what a lot of you miss. It's not about Carlos, I don't care now he's gone.

 

But I am bothered about our players who think it's acceptable to be less fit than they should be - unfortunately they are still with us.

Carlos allowed that to happen during his tenure, which part of that font you understand, attitudes slackened because Carlos allowed it too, it really is that simple .

[Owl999]

8 minutes ago, darklord said:

 

Dedications what you need if you wanna be a record breaker

If you want to be the best and you want to beat the rest, dedications what you need .

Completely agree Roy Darklord 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Owl999

[OxonOwl]

11 hours ago, Wakefield owl said:

Finally one of our players accepts responsibility for our poor season - Adam Reach says he believes complacency crept in last season. By this I believe he means many/some of our players thought it acceptable not to be as fit as they could, perhaps mistakenly believing they were good enough to compete against fitter teams.

 

Very noticeable that one of the few players beyond criticism should say this.

 

This is a big reason why our squad needs a overhaul, some players have been milking the club. I don't understand why our fans accept this.

 

Interesting to note that if Adam's comments had been about fitness, or lack of, then a thread would have been immediately opened and would now be several pages long, criticising the previous regime but absolving the players of any responsibility.

 

Without a big change in attitude we won't be going anywhere again next season.

 

Where and when did he say this?

[Walt]

13 hours ago, GY-owl.4 said:

 

Get your point and its generally right, athletics, tennis boxing etc, your in it for yourself.

 

but footballers, different breed, all a footballer needs to do is keep the boss happy. do what he says. 

they was doing that fine, so wasnt letting anyone down as they was doing everything asked.

 

the buck stops with the coaching regime, the manager. If CC was big on stamina fitness, our players would have been super fit, but he wasnt (far from it) and looking at hooper, Nuhiu, Pudil neither were our players.

 

But lets say these 3 dont really wanna put the pre season hard yards in this time, tough. Jos will be getting them super fit in front of his own eyes and there is not a chance players will be able to do anything about it.

 

come first game they will be well ready, but not because of them having a change in attitude, but purely because they have, just like last pre-season, done what the boss wants.

They were letting themselves down if they weren’t as fit as they should have been. Yes, they may have done exactly what was asked from them in their training regimens but they will have known  perfectly well if they weren’t fit enough. I Don’t know whether you do any competitive sport to any level but anyone who does will tell you they know exactly how fit they currently are and exactly how fit they should be and what steps to take if they want to be at their peak level. 

I’m all for Jos bringing in a fitness ethos as that can only be a good thing but ultimately it’s down to the individual to buy into it, what’s stopping a certain player from only giving it 90% or going and stuffing his face with pizza when he gets home? 

 

[NorthernOwl]

13 hours ago, Walt said:

 

Laughable. They are professional athletes, they get paid to be fit. It's their responsibility first and foremost.

We are not talking about kids here as our first team under CC was experienced pro's. They will know exactly how fit they need to be to play Championship football, just like any other athlete knows how fit they need to be to compete in their sport and exactly what they need to do to get to that standard. They will know exactly what works for them as they've been in an industry that gives them every bit of fitness, dietary and recovery information and equipment they need. Anyone who is into fitness will tell you the same, it's down to yourself to be the best that you can. You know when you are slacking.

 

Except that isn't how it works. Clubs spends huge amounts employing experts in nutrition, fitness and coaching  to tell players what to do and to create individualised plans for them to follow. If a player says this is rubbish and I'm going to do my own thing then that is a potential disciplinary. Let's flip things round for a moment. If a player says during this pre season that Jos is working him too hard and he is going to do less training than he is being asked will that be deemed acceptable? Of course not because it isn't within the players remit to choose their own fitness regime.

[Walt]

25 minutes ago, NorthernOwl said:

 

Except that isn't how it works. Clubs spends huge amounts employing experts in nutrition, fitness and coaching  to tell players what to do and to create individualised plans for them to follow. If a player says this is rubbish and I'm going to do my own thing then that is a potential disciplinary. Let's flip things round for a moment. If a player says during this pre season that Jos is working him too hard and he is going to do less training than he is being asked will that be deemed acceptable? Of course not because it isn't within the players remit to choose their own fitness regime.

I keep repeating the same thing. A player will know if he’s fit or not. It really is that simple. You can dress it up all you want but that’s the bottom line. I’ve no doubt that the players will have spoken to each other about training, about how intense it is or isn’t and about how fit they are. If they have issues with it they as a group can make their feelings known, maybe some will moan like fizz if it’s hard, maybe some will happily take it being easy but they will know if they are honest with themselves if it’s getting the best out of them.

 

The players will even have their fitness data available to them from over the years to prove how fit they are, if their current results are worse than previous years then it would be unprofessional not to act on this information. 

 

 

 

[Daizan10]

16 hours ago, Wakefield owl said:

Finally one of our players accepts responsibility for our poor season - Adam Reach says he believes complacency crept in last season. By this I believe he means many/some of our players thought it acceptable not to be as fit as they could, perhaps mistakenly believing they were good enough to compete against fitter teams.

 

Very noticeable that one of the few players beyond criticism should say this.

 

This is a big reason why our squad needs a overhaul, some players have been milking the club. I don't understand why our fans accept this.

 

Interesting to note that if Adam's comments had been about fitness, or lack of, then a thread would have been immediately opened and would now be several pages long, criticising the previous regime but absolving the players of any responsibility.

 

Without a big change in attitude we won't be going anywhere again next season.

The manager instills the attitude. If the players, or certain players, know they are in the team whatever then some will allow standards to drop. In the same way why would a fringe player bust a gut if they are never going to make the leap to first team. I believe Jos has installed the right environment where those with a positive attitude are rewarded, so players see doing the right thing as beneficial to them and do so as a matter of course. Up the Jos and down with that scoundrel who fizzed us over. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Daizan10
Slobu

[Musn't Grumble]

14 hours ago, Plonk said:

As an older contributor to this forum I have to say I’ve had a lot of “gaffers” in my working life. Some of them I loved working for, and put in an extra ten per cent. Some of them were absolute c@nts and my work suffered as a result. It’s human nature and I don’t think footballs any different. Wilco had a team of players that would run through brick walls. BFR had a team that were audacious in their style. But who will ever forget that 2 2 draw against nine men. That’s why good managers get paid a fortune. 

 

Bang on.

 

The art of good management is getting people to do things because THEY want to do it.

[NorthernOwl]

1 hour ago, Walt said:

I keep repeating the same thing. A player will know if he’s fit or not. It really is that simple. You can dress it up all you want but that’s the bottom line. I’ve no doubt that the players will have spoken to each other about training, about how intense it is or isn’t and about how fit they are. If they have issues with it they as a group can make their feelings known, maybe some will moan like fizz if it’s hard, maybe some will happily take it being easy but they will know if they are honest with themselves if it’s getting the best out of them.

 

The players will even have their fitness data available to them from over the years to prove how fit they are, if their current results are worse than previous years then it would be unprofessional not to act on this information. 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't matter how many times you say it you are still wrong. Any player who doesn't toe the line will soon be out of the team. There is a hierarchy they have to respect. Carlos and his team will have had their reasons for setting the fitness regime as they did. The players may or may not have bought into those reasons but it is not up to them to make decisions of this nature. You may as well say as professionals they should have ignored Carlos's tactics because they knew they were garbage. Clubs do not spend vast sums on fitness and conditioning coaches only to let the players themselves choose what fitness work to carry out.