Pair of strikers to start next season, reserve pair and pair to go

[akbuk]

Nuhui + 1 other

[frastheowl]

14 hours ago, spike1867 said:

Just an observation about playing FF in the number 10 role, in the hole, regista or whatever. Whilst he will always be available to receive the ball I have 2 major doubts about his ability to play there.

 

First, he is not that effective receiving the ball into feet in central areas. It's congested, it's difficult to turn and he invariably gets out muscled or kicked. Coupled with his "reputation" with referees, he doesn't get half the protection he should.

 

Second, he is too off the cuff. If you are one of two strikers and FF is supplying your bullets, you will end up being disappointed more often than not. He still has a habit of checking out, dropping the shoulder, twist turn and finally deliver the ball. That is counter productive to strikers trying to get the jump on a centre half. Take yesterday's 3rd goal for example, when he received the ball from Nuhiu, he turns and faces up the defender. He has the opportunity to play Boyd or Nuhiu in clean on goal to his left. Simple ball no dramas.  I know he goes on a dribble, nearly loses it twice and provides a stunning finish but if he chooses that option 10 times I'd say he converts maybe 2 times. Play the simple ball and gets into the box with Joao and I reckon we convert that 5 or 6 times out of ten. Over the course of a season that mounts up.

 

Like some have said, I'd prefer him picking the ball up on the left, drifting in, taking the full back where he doesn't want to go. Either on the left in a 4-2-3-1 a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2 if we've the right central midfield duo and full backs.

 

Its not a criticism of FF, he's our game changer, our grab a win out of nothing. If you want to get out of this division you need to be ruthless. Keep clocking up the chances no matter how they arrive and put them away.

 

Anyways, just an observation.

 

I think you make some valid points about FF, and for me, the system that would bring the best out of him, and our other compliment of strikers, would be the 3-4-3 system we employed on Saturday, but more akin to the 2nd half shape rather than the 1st. 

 

However, I've serious concerns about the midfield two playing that system. We've seen before that playing in a two man midfield doesn't bring the best out of Bannan, and on Saturday, in the 1st half especially, he was back to the realities of last season...playing on the centre halves toes, too many sideways passes, generally been too cautious. And I've still got serious reservations over Pelupessy's ability to read the game, and play the deeper holding role which would be required in that system. If we are to go with the 3-4-3 system, then we need a real physical presence in midfield. 

 

So, if that physical presence doesn't arrive, the next best thing would be the 3-4-1-2, with Forestieri playing in the No.10 role. However, with the likelihood of either Nuhiu or Hooper playing ahead of him, Forestieri will not need to be strictly confined to the traditional "in the hole" position. Both Nuhiu and Hooper drop deep, which would allow Forestieri to drift and have a genuine free role. He'll be able to go and find the space and dictate the game from wherever he sees fit. 

 

If we are to be an effective unit next season, it's imperative we see a organised, resilient core to the team...but the flair players, FF, Joao, Hooper, Nuhiu, are given the licence to go and effect things however they see fit. Forestieri playing in that No.10 role could see him producing a good amount of goals and chances.  

[soldierboyblue]

17 hours ago, Holmowl said:

 

Hooper wonderful.

 

FF wonderful.

 

Their strike partnership record awful.

 

If the last handful of games have shown us anything it’s what a team we are when we play Fernando AND two strikers, not as one of the two strikers.

 

But to answer the OP....wow that’s tough. I think our best player is Hooper, but on 11th August it has to be Nuhiu-Joao, with Fernando wide and/or deep.  The Nuhiu-Joao partnership have earned the right to stay in place until their success falls away, or better still they stay there because their fabulous run continues next season.

 

I would have Hooper plus one of the above as first change. 

 

I would have Fletch as 4th choice,

 

I would absolutely Keegan love it if Rhodes impresses Jos and us over the next games and pushes all the above for a start or a sub shirt. 

 

Good OP. 

 

 

If Big Dave is starting as the No1 striker next season then there is something seriously wrong. Agreed he has had a great second half of the season and scored some goals but what about the previous 4 seasons? A fully fit any one of the other strikers is in ahead of Big Dave. 

 

However if we offer him a year extension he has to play but not worth it IMO time to let him go and find another club which taking into account his latest form should not be an issue for him.

[Barr Grylls]

Any fan who suggests letting Hooper go needs to seriously give their head a wobble

[frastheowl]

8 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

If Big Dave is starting as the No1 striker next season then there is something seriously wrong. Agreed he has had a great second half of the season and scored some goals but what about the previous 4 seasons? A fully fit any one of the other strikers is in ahead of Big Dave. 

 

However if we offer him a year extension he has to play but not worth it IMO time to let him go and find another club which taking into account his latest form should not be an issue for him.

 

Why?

 

If Nuhiu continues with his level of performance that he's shown in the 2nd half of this season, then there would be absolutely no issue whatsoever with him been the No.1 striker. He's scored 10 goals since the turn of the year, so continuing that level of scoring, he'd not be far off 20 goals for a season.

 

But, as we all know, and now most appreciate, he brings the best out of other players. Some of the best sides had strikers who perhaps didn't score a great deal, perhaps weren't the most naturally gifted...but they linked the team together. A fit, in-form Nuhiu can without doubt, provide that.

 

But like I've previously said, unfortunately, the ball is totally in Nuhiu's court. We'll have to offer him a good package (and not just financial) to convince him to stay. Finding an equivalent striker to replace would be very, costly. 

 

Having Hooper and Nuhiu competing for a spot, alongside Joao and Forestieri has the hallmarks of a very potent attacking unit. 

[Bouncing Owl]

32 minutes ago, frastheowl said:

 

I think you make some valid points about FF, and for me, the system that would bring the best out of him, and our other compliment of strikers, would be the 3-4-3 system we employed on Saturday, but more akin to the 2nd half shape rather than the 1st. 

 

However, I've serious concerns about the midfield two playing that system. We've seen before that playing in a two man midfield doesn't bring the best out of Bannan, and on Saturday, in the 1st half especially, he was back to the realities of last season...playing on the centre halves toes, too many sideways passes, generally been too cautious. And I've still got serious reservations over Pelupessy's ability to read the game, and play the deeper holding role which would be required in that system. If we are to go with the 3-4-3 system, then we need a real physical presence in midfield. 

 

So, if that physical presence doesn't arrive, the next best thing would be the 3-4-1-2, with Forestieri playing in the No.10 role. However, with the likelihood of either Nuhiu or Hooper playing ahead of him, Forestieri will not need to be strictly confined to the traditional "in the hole" position. Both Nuhiu and Hooper drop deep, which would allow Forestieri to drift and have a genuine free role. He'll be able to go and find the space and dictate the game from wherever he sees fit. 

 

If we are to be an effective unit next season, it's imperative we see a organised, resilient core to the team...but the flair players, FF, Joao, Hooper, Nuhiu, are given the licence to go and effect things however they see fit. Forestieri playing in that No.10 role could see him producing a good amount of goals and chances.  

 

I’d play 4-3-3 but we need a quality centre half to partner Lees and a new left back. 

 

The reason for this formation is to get the best out of key players - FF, Bannan and Lee assuming they are all fit and ready to go.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Bouncing Owl

[soldierboyblue]

12 minutes ago, frastheowl said:

 

Why?

 

If Nuhiu continues with his level of performance that he's shown in the 2nd half of this season, then there would be absolutely no issue whatsoever with him been the No.1 striker. He's scored 10 goals since the turn of the year, so continuing that level of scoring, he'd not be far off 20 goals for a season.

 

But, as we all know, and now most appreciate, he brings the best out of other players. Some of the best sides had strikers who perhaps didn't score a great deal, perhaps weren't the most naturally gifted...but they linked the team together. A fit, in-form Nuhiu can without doubt, provide that.

 

But like I've previously said, unfortunately, the ball is totally in Nuhiu's court. We'll have to offer him a good package (and not just financial) to convince him to stay. Finding an equivalent striker to replace would be very, costly. 

 

Having Hooper and Nuhiu competing for a spot, alongside Joao and Forestieri has the hallmarks of a very potent attacking unit. 

I agree with you but Hooper if fully fit is one of the first names on the team sheet, you just had to look how he was performing before he was ruled out for the season and that would have been about 80% fit.

[Holmowl]

27 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

If Big Dave is starting as the No1 striker next season then there is something seriously wrong. Agreed he has had a great second half of the season and scored some goals but what about the previous 4 seasons? A fully fit any one of the other strikers is in ahead of Big Dave. 

 

However if we offer him a year extension he has to play but not worth it IMO time to let him go and find another club which taking into account his latest form should not be an issue for him.

 

I don’t envisage Nuhiu starting all that many games next season. If you read my post I refer to him deserving to start 11th August, alongside Joao. Unless we buy a superstar those two deserve to start until their partnership loses its sheen. 

 

I think our our best striker is Hooper, and hope that his early season form matches this season’s, and that he starts 30ish games alongside Nuhiu, Joao or Fletcher. 

[peacock1961]

assuming a fit team.

 

gk

hunt/fred/hutch/lees/reach

lee/bannan

hooper

joao/FF

 

Bench from

Nuhui/Joey/Van Aken - new CM and CH and 2 new wing/full backs plus under 23's 

anyone not mentioned is surplus in my view.

[Guest Maxine]

Forestieri and.Hooper.

[Dick_Turpin]

22 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

I don’t envisage Nuhiu starting all that many games next season. If you read my post I refer to him deserving to start 11th August, alongside Joao. Unless we buy a superstar those two deserve to start until their partnership loses its sheen. 

Unlikely though it seemed at the start of the season - when these two came on oo Saturday it gave us some real presence up front - skill, pace and strength

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

Heard we are after a pair... Michael Gash and Rod Fanni a rate pair of  

[oh_weds_we_love_you]

Prefer a 3 of Rhodes, Forestieri, and Hooper - with Fletcher, Joao and Nuhiu coming into the team as and when required.

[jrh]

Keep Hooper, Joao, FF, Rhodes. Let go nuhiu and fletcher. Sell winnall and would potentially consider selling rhodes if the price is right.

[frastheowl]

10 minutes ago, soldierboyblue said:

I agree with you but Hooper if fully fit is one of the first names on the team sheet, you just had to look how he was performing before he was ruled out for the season and that would have been about 80% fit.

 

Unfortunately, Hooper fully fit doesn't happen often enough, and in all likelihood, will happen less now he's 30 years old. 

 

But do similar roles, but bring vastly different attributes to the table. Both would play a deep lying forward's role in a 3-4-3 superbly, but in totally different ways. Horses for courses. They'll be times when Nuhiu is the preferred option, and others when Hooper will be (if fit). 

[vulture_squadron]

21 hours ago, frastheowl said:

 

Long post warning:

 

Ridiculous to pair them up like in the OP.

 

The fact is, we have seven strikers on our books, and realistically, we'll need to shed two of those. 

 

The biggest question mark hangs over Nuhiu's head. He's gone from been a certainty to leave, to someone who we may actually struggle to convince to stay. Nuhiu won't be stopping here on a token gesture one year deal. If we want Nuhiu to stay (and imo, he absolutely HAS to), then we have to offer him what his other suitors will be willing to offer. That'll be a definitive role within the first team and, at the very least, a two year (if not three year) deal.

 

So, let's assume (and it's a big assumption), Nuhiu agrees a new deal, and stays. Thats ONE sorted. 

 

Forestieri stays. He absolutely must stay. TWO. 

 

Joao. Another player who has stepped up, improved hugely and have proven himself to be a key (and versatile) member of our forward line. Not only does he need to be kept on, he needs to be offered a new deal, with only a year left on his current deal. THREE. 

 

Hooper. His future is very much dependant on the interest in him. I just feel, that if we get a decent bid for him (and I believe he was on the verge of leaving in January before getting injured on Boxing Day), he may go. He's now 30 years old, and though there is no doubting his ability (he's one of the finest strikers in the division), he doesn't play enough games to justify our weekly outlay on him. I'm just not sure whether there'll be a host of clubs wanting to take a 30 year old striker with a long history of injury problems on £25-30k a week, queuing up to sign him. If he stays, and stays fit (huge IF), he'll be a valuable asset. FOUR. 

 

Fletcher. Unless a club in the US, India or somewhere exotic or far flung, I think he'll stay. Two years left on his current deal, he'll be in no rush to leave. Wherever he goes, he'll want at least a three year deal (for a 31 year old!) and the equivalent in wages (led to believe £30k/week). But, I think he'll be surplus to requirements. I can't see him playing a great deal, unless we are hit with injury issues again. FIVE...reluctantly. 

 

Rhodes. For me, the only way I can envisage Rhodes having a future at the club, is if two of the following happens... i.) Nuhiu turns down a new contract, and leaves; ii.) a club comes in and offers an acceptable fee for Hooper or iii.) Fletcher finds a club, and leaves on a free transfer somewhere. Otherwise, he's going to be sixth choice. And no club can justify paying their sixth choice striker £30-35k/week. And unlike Fletcher, I think Rhodes will not be content sitting and collecting his wage...he'll want to play football, and will be keen to move, if he isn't a key part of our plans going forward. LEAVE.

 

Winnall. He's the obvious one to move out. Unlike Hooper, Fletcher and Rhodes...Winnall will be an attractive option to a number of Championship clubs. His weekly wage is affordable for most Championship club with ambition (lead to believe £12k/week), and I think clubs would get him for £3-4m, which considering the absurd fees strikers go for, is very reasonable for a striker with a proven record in this division for two seasons now. LEAVE. 

 

That'll leave us in a position going into the new season with FORESTIERI, HOOPER, JOAO, NUHIU and FLETCHER for next season, with Fletcher essentially been made available if any takers come forward. So, we could essentially consider the other four as our forward options for the season. It is absolutely key however, that we don't restrict them in systems that only allow one or two of them to play at any given time (like we had under Carlos). 

 

In the 3-5-2 (3-4-1-2), three of them could be played with Forestieri playing in the hole, behind either of Hooper, Joao and Nuhiu. In the 3-4-3 we played yesterday, having Forestieri and Joao playing either side of a central, deep lying forward (which Hooper or Nuhiu could perform the role, but very differently). 

 

Then add into the equation, the likes of Matias would be a good, unpredictable back up Forestieri, Reach could be pushed further forward to play the No.10 role or the wide forward role, or Lee could play alongside Bannan in midfield and play a more traditional 5-3-2. Plenty of options, plenty of cover...but first and foremost, we MUST find a system that allows three of the four strikers mentioned above, as often as possible. 

Very much this. To think it all hinges around Nuhiu is amazing really but he has definitely shown himself more effective than Rhodes lately.

 

Worth noting that Joao is the only one that can be considered young and likely to improve. 

 

Fletch, Hooper or Rhodes may well be off if the right offer comes in.

[oldishowl]

Hooper is the interesting one for me.

Firstly will he still be here next season.

 

Then can he get up to the level of fitness that hopefully Jos will be demanding and stay there without getting injured. 

 

Hopefully that level of fitness will mean we can play a lot more high tempo. Will that suit him.

 

He was first choice under Carlos who basically built our style around him. Will he be flexible enough to play in anything other than two up front given what Jos said about more flexibility next season.

 

He is our best finisher  but I can’t see Jos letting us get as dependent on him as Carlos did.

 

 

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

20 hours ago, akbuk said:

Nuhui + 1 other

 

Pretty much as things stand.

[Swiss Toni]

 The OP has forgot a crucial pairing.

 

Which pair will be injured?

[Holmowl]

45 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

Hooper is the interesting one for me.

Firstly will he still be here next season.

 

Then can he get up to the level of fitness that hopefully Jos will be demanding and stay there without getting injured. 

 

Hopefully that level of fitness will mean we can play a lot more high tempo. Will that suit him.

 

He was first choice under Carlos who basically built our style around him. Will he be flexible enough to play in anything other than two up front given what Jos said about more flexibility next season.

 

He is our best finisher  but I can’t see Jos letting us get as dependent on him as Carlos did.

 

 

 

It was folly to become so utterly dependent Hooper-Fletcher. It was a surprise to no-one when each broke down.

 

Rhodes, Joao and Nuhiu should have been taking some of the strain, but Carlos just flogged them into the ground. 

 

You are absolutely right. We need a cleverer more flexible manager, and let’s hope we have one in Jos. Looks quite likely.