Sean Clare future in doubt

[cognacbarnowl]

44 minutes ago, scram said:

They're a Cat 4 - so the money they have is used to buy young scholars and young pro players

 

Makes sense to me tbh

 

Nobody can spot an 8 year old who will play in the premier league - much more likely to spot a 17yr old who might - so even though that player might cost it seems a much better use of resources to me

 

In my opinion there are social issues involved too. If there are no academies for kids to sign in to then they cannot see any possibility of ever playing pro football so go and do other things. Not always the things that would be best for them or society in general ; and definitely to the detriment of the national team.

 

The way things are now these kids NEED some kind of hope for their futures whether they make the grade or not. I don't know what it costs to run an academy these days, but with all the cash sloshing around in the premier league surely it wouldn't make that much of a dent.

 

Football clubs used to be hubs of local society and plenty of young talent was unearthed back in the day. At least the kids then had some hope of "making it" ; even if the money back then wasn't a patch on what footballers earn now. And as far as I am concerned, it's the huge amounts of money that is killing the game we all grew up with and fell in love with.

[Socialist_Owl]

1 hour ago, djorkaeff said:

 

Err the good ones are leaving so it’s not working 

It's absolutely a sign of a working academy.  These players are name enough to warrant interest?   The academy had done it's part in developing and showcasing.

 

Not ideal, but all part of the game.  A few may leave, a few may stay and make the step up to valued contributor, and many will never pan out.  But it's all part of being a football club tied to and in support of its community.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Socialist_Owl

[Lichfield alien]

Wundt surprise me if wednesday scale back the academy

[Jim]

17 minutes ago, Lichfield alien said:

Wundt surprise me if wednesday scale back the academy

 

I think we'll do the opposite TBH. Charlton have a very good Academy and I could see the new CEO wanting to have the same here.

[Inspector Lestrade]

5 minutes ago, Lichfield alien said:

Wundt surprise me if wednesday scale back the academy

 

Why?  Just when we are seeing positive results from it.

[scram]

51 minutes ago, Socialist_Owl said:

I'd have rather righted an unproductive academy rather than binned it entirely.

 

Smacks of short-termism cost-cutting.

 

They haven't cut the cost of running the academy - they've reattributed the money to developing players aged 16 to 23

 

If it were down to me i'd definitely bin of all academy age groups below 12 - I mean clubs are recruiting 5 year olds - WTF?!?

 

Hudds have taken the action they have after a full structural review and decided that their academy has produced nothing in the 17 years it was up and running

 

Theur catchment area isn't good and as we are seeing as soon as you produce a talent worth having you're at the mercy of the premier league big guns who just waft a wad of notes under the noses of the player and they usually fall for the lure of being set for life

 

Meanwhile the clubs get very little in relation to the input and resources dedicated to getting that player to the position where they can hold a club to ransom

 

There are no easy answers while the system is set up to favour the wealthy clubs - and the players

[scram]

58 minutes ago, cognacbarnowl said:

 

In my opinion there are social issues involved too. If there are no academies for kids to sign in to then they cannot see any possibility of ever playing pro football so go and do other things. Not always the things that would be best for them or society in general ; and definitely to the detriment of the national team.

 

The way things are now these kids NEED some kind of hope for their futures whether they make the grade or not. I don't know what it costs to run an academy these days, but with all the cash sloshing around in the premier league surely it wouldn't make that much of a dent.

 

Football clubs used to be hubs of local society and plenty of young talent was unearthed back in the day. At least the kids then had some hope of "making it" ; even if the money back then wasn't a patch on what footballers earn now. And as far as I am concerned, it's the huge amounts of money that is killing the game we all grew up with and fell in love with.

 

I take the point about a club being the hub of its community - but this is getting increasingly stretched to breaking point due to the cost of watching games, the kick off times and the general malaise that clubs increasingly show fans

 

But there is another social cost too - social isolation of kids who get picked up from school - drive anything up to 90 minutes to go to training - train for a couple of hours, get back in the car (often getting a snack along the way) spend another 90 minutes getting home THEN they have to sit down maybe have tea then get their homework etc sorted - they lose the social interaction of their local mates as they hardly ever see them - they become excluded and isolated from their mates due to academy football - and it is becoming an increasingly recognised problem.

 

I know a 9 year old who begged to be allowed to leave an academy for that very reason - he missed his friends and doing normal kid things with them instead of forever being in the car, at training or at matches.

 

I still fully understand what Huddersfield did and why - football can still be hubs for kids to play football - they can do it through community schemes and run as many teams as they can get players for. I remember years ago Wigan was one of the largest (as in player numbers) football clubs in the country even though they were in division 4 at the time.

 

An academy be default is elitist and may not cater for any local kids - yet it could be full of kids from miles away so the social/community aspect doesn't really exist for an academy anyway

[darra]

20 minutes ago, scram said:

 

I take the point about a club being the hub of its community - but this is getting increasingly stretched to breaking point due to the cost of watching games, the kick off times and the general malaise that clubs increasingly show fans

 

But there is another social cost too - social isolation of kids who get picked up from school - drive anything up to 90 minutes to go to training - train for a couple of hours, get back in the car (often getting a snack along the way) spend another 90 minutes getting home THEN they have to sit down maybe have tea then get their homework etc sorted - they lose the social interaction of their local mates as they hardly ever see them - they become excluded and isolated from their mates due to academy football - and it is becoming an increasingly recognised problem.

 

I know a 9 year old who begged to be allowed to leave an academy for that very reason - he missed his friends and doing normal kid things with them instead of forever being in the car, at training or at matches.

 

I still fully understand what Huddersfield did and why - football can still be hubs for kids to play football - they can do it through community schemes and run as many teams as they can get players for. I remember years ago Wigan was one of the largest (as in player numbers) football clubs in the country even though they were in division 4 at the time.

 

An academy be default is elitist and may not cater for any local kids - yet it could be full of kids from miles away so the social/community aspect doesn't really exist for an academy anyway

Top Post Scram. There was a discussion a few months ago on the radio about academies. General consensus is that they are money pits with something like less than 10 out of every 100 kids making the grade. Sure Scram will be able to give a more accurate figure. They are basically money pits and for a lot of clubs it's far easier to buy talent. Suppose Hirst is the prime example. Wednesday have ploughed what I would imagine is a lot of money into his development and now Man U are taking the opportunity to possibly cash in.. When it goes to tribunal we may just about break even.

[DJMortimer]

I've said it from the very beginning of the Premier League (that we were complicit in let's not forget). The system was revamped knowingly to benefit the top clubs in the country and to hell with the rest. Nothing I've seen since has changed my mind about that.

[Owl 44]

54 minutes ago, scram said:

 

I take the point about a club being the hub of its community - but this is getting increasingly stretched to breaking point due to the cost of watching games, the kick off times and the general malaise that clubs increasingly show fans

 

But there is another social cost too - social isolation of kids who get picked up from school - drive anything up to 90 minutes to go to training - train for a couple of hours, get back in the car (often getting a snack along the way) spend another 90 minutes getting home THEN they have to sit down maybe have tea then get their homework etc sorted - they lose the social interaction of their local mates as they hardly ever see them - they become excluded and isolated from their mates due to academy football - and it is becoming an increasingly recognised problem.

 

I know a 9 year old who begged to be allowed to leave an academy for that very reason - he missed his friends and doing normal kid things with them instead of forever being in the car, at training or at matches.

 

I still fully understand what Huddersfield did and why - football can still be hubs for kids to play football - they can do it through community schemes and run as many teams as they can get players for. I remember years ago Wigan was one of the largest (as in player numbers) football clubs in the country even though they were in division 4 at the time.

 

An academy be default is elitist and may not cater for any local kids - yet it could be full of kids from miles away so the social/community aspect doesn't really exist for an academy anyway

I worked in a school in Rotherham last year where a 6-year old lad was scouted by Manchester City. He had to go over there 3 times a week, being picked up from school an hour early and not getting back until after 9.00pm each time. Absolutely crazy. 

[Spondon Owl]

1 hour ago, scram said:

 

They haven't cut the cost of running the academy - they've reattributed the money to developing players aged 16 to 23

 

If it were down to me i'd definitely bin of all academy age groups below 12 - I mean clubs are recruiting 5 year olds - WTF?!?

 

Hudds have taken the action they have after a full structural review and decided that their academy has produced nothing in the 17 years it was up and running

 

Theur catchment area isn't good and as we are seeing as soon as you produce a talent worth having you're at the mercy of the premier league big guns who just waft a wad of notes under the noses of the player and they usually fall for the lure of being set for life

 

Meanwhile the clubs get very little in relation to the input and resources dedicated to getting that player to the position where they can hold a club to ransom

 

There are no easy answers while the system is set up to favour the wealthy clubs - and the players

The change in legislation a few years back when the premier league held the football league over a barrel completely changed the landscape for academies in the EFL. 

 

A case in point for the greed of the premier league.

[cognacbarnowl]

1 hour ago, scram said:

 

I take the point about a club being the hub of its community - but this is getting increasingly stretched to breaking point due to the cost of watching games, the kick off times and the general malaise that clubs increasingly show fans

 

But there is another social cost too - social isolation of kids who get picked up from school - drive anything up to 90 minutes to go to training - train for a couple of hours, get back in the car (often getting a snack along the way) spend another 90 minutes getting home THEN they have to sit down maybe have tea then get their homework etc sorted - they lose the social interaction of their local mates as they hardly ever see them - they become excluded and isolated from their mates due to academy football - and it is becoming an increasingly recognised problem.

 

I know a 9 year old who begged to be allowed to leave an academy for that very reason - he missed his friends and doing normal kid things with them instead of forever being in the car, at training or at matches.

 

I still fully understand what Huddersfield did and why - football can still be hubs for kids to play football - they can do it through community schemes and run as many teams as they can get players for. I remember years ago Wigan was one of the largest (as in player numbers) football clubs in the country even though they were in division 4 at the time.

 

An academy be default is elitist and may not cater for any local kids - yet it could be full of kids from miles away so the social/community aspect doesn't really exist for an academy anyway

 

 

Thanks for the answer Scram. Helluva lot more eloquent than yours truly here. I see and understand the problems with time and social exclusion and fully agree with what you have said. My point though was based more on , "local", than having to drive 90 minutes to get to the place. I also agree, and have said so for a long, long time, that clubs are acting against the best interests of the kids by starting them too young. Sadly , waving a wad of notes or a flashy new car in front of a lot of parents is going to tempt them not to think of their kids welfare but their own. A terrible indictment of where we are as a society. ( Yep, I remember thatcher saying their was no such thing as society  )

   Being an owld git I wasn't actually thinking about kids so young being part of the professional set up. More like young teenagers , which I now see from your posts is still the case at Huddersfield.

   The tapping up of young kids and their parents and throwing silly amounts of cash at them at very young ages is one of the reasons for my disenchantment with football in general. I used to watch and be interested in all football when I was growing up, but since the ascension of the premier league and , as far as the media are concerned, the binning of any football records before it arrived , I only really have any interest when The Wednesday are playing. 

    Once again, thanks for your reply and your posts in general. I enjoy reading them. You're one of a few that post any sense on here, and I include myself in the "others" bracket .

[Tamworthowl]

Whilst we've seen a few academy players play for the first team, even if only for a few minutes, over the last two seasons, only two (goalkeepers apart) have made me think they could establish themselves at championship level: Clare and Thorniley.

 

Im sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think neither worked their way through our academy. Thornily rejected by Everton, Clare left the Nike Academy (whatever that is). Both joined us age 19. So you'd think that seeing their big opportunity being lost they'd be grateful for the second chance at Wednesday. And Thorniley has signed up. Alternatively, experiencing rejection from the cut throat professional footballer making machinery could make them cynical and believe that no one is looking after them except yourself: hence no loyalty or gratitude and Clare is off to where he thinks opportunities and/or pay is best. Or he may just want to go back down South now he is a position to sell himself to clubs. 

 

So I don't resent Clare leaving, just find it disappointing as I think he could have a great future here possibly as a medium term replacement for Bannan. The club just needs to find a way of signing up our better academy prospects (and identifying them) on longer contracts without busting the bank.

[Jon Newsome]

Clare will do the same as Hirst, it's just the way of football these days and we'd all do exactly the same. We as a Championship club can't afford to pay players with potential the same as seasoned pros, no club can do that it's just business madness. He'll go and sit on a pretty wage in a Premier League development squad on a 4 year deal, probably earning 4 times what we can offer.

[Hughdowd]

Both Clare and hirst are in football for one thing only...MONEY !!!!.....pulling a Wednesday shirt on means nothing to them.....so let them both go elsewhere...it’s the way footballs gone nowadays....