End of season clear out

[outlaw pete]

6 hours ago, Holmowl said:

Reality check. Here’s how many games our “crocks” have played in the last 3 seasons:-

 

Fletch 97

Forestieri 83

Hooper 75

Hutch 75

 

Fletcher in particular gets a raw deal from posters. The way he battles and batters it’s hardly surprising he gets hurt. Moreover, unlike many a modern player, including some of our own I’m sure, he plays thru pain and heavy knocks.

 

Forestieri gets off unscathed on here. Despite only having one season in his career where he has been a regular few ever mention his availibility record.

 

All four of these very good players have their issues, but why Fletch is written-off I don’t get. Each needs infinitely better management than they got here over the past two seasons. 

 

 

Hooper has only managed to play a full 90 min on only 30 times over the past three seasons at Hillsbrough.

 

[Ante's Bubbly]

32 minutes ago, beloved_aunt said:

 

 

I think people are being a bit harsh on Fletcher by lumping him in with the likes of Abdi/Jones/Rhodes as people who earn big wages and don't contribute anything.

 

Fair enough he's injured at the moment (and hardly alone in that) but he was fit most of last season and contributed when he did.  There was that period in the autumn (around the time he scored a quality goal against Blackburn) when he scored or assisted in 5 consecutive games and he was crucial for us in the run in to finish 4th.  Likewise our best performances this season (think Leeds at home) have often come when he started with Hooper.

 

If Jos can turn Big Dave into a 9 goals in 12 starts striker imagine what he can do with Fletcher who throughout his career has generally played at a higher level and scored more goals than him? 

 

I was of the same belief, but quite frankly we cannot afford the luxury of having such a player, while scoring so few goals. 11 league goals is pretty good, but not when he is earning mega bucks. If he was scoring 20 plus league goals a season then fair enough, but his stats over the years do not support that and it is a bit too late in the day to teach this old dog any new tricks.

 

I am sorry to have to disappoint you, but I think Carlos managed to get him to his pre-retirement peak by getting 11 league goals out of him against championship opposition. He has not bettered his number of league goals unless you go back 10 years to when he was playing for Hibs against such footballing giants as Gretna and Caledonian Thistle and managed, I think, 12 league goals and his only ever (?) hat trick against Gretna.

 

In his 405 league appearances he has scored 110 goals, so pretty much one in four..

 

 

[Hookowl]

9 minutes ago, bobowl said:

I don't know if i've got this wrong, but didn't i read that even if we sell most of our players it wouldn't now count against FFP?. So it's either go for broke, or just accept that we are going to be punished for a few years and prepair to start again. Why does everyone keep saying we are gonna sell players when our chairman hasn't sold anyone in nearly 3 years?. Big Dave needs to be kept. After all the abuse he's taken over the years he really has shown what a pro he is. Has anyone else noticed how much fitter he looks? under Carlos he had a massive gut.

 

I may also have this wrong, but I'm sure when I read a piece on FFP rules that although a forecast of the current season is counted as the third years profit/loss.

If a club can demonstrate that they intend to recoup losses by sales when possible, this can then be taken into account in certain cases. 

[bobness]

On 4/3/2018 at 07:02, james o connor said:

Agreed but that is football manager stuff. In reality who in their right mind is going to want to take on abdi , Matias , fletcher etc where their injury records ? 

 

[Costello 77]

1 hour ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I think the transfer business will all surround Fernando and whether he fits in to what Jos wants to do. 

 

He's our , I won't say best player that's subjective,  but certainly  most saleable player. 

 

Big month on the pitch coming up where I think Jos will make his mind up on him and where he sees him playing. 

 

Fernando could end up being a Dalian...

Great player. ..but of you can get two in with the money that strengthen other areas.. and you a better 'whole' ....do you do it?...

 

Big big summer ahead.

 

 

Makes sense..the rate we're losing money at.... I can see ALL options on the table... not just FF.

We're not getting out of our financial predicament by being cute in the loan market like some seem to think.

 

It's only my opinion obviously but the accounts are audited and available to read...we need a huge chunk of income... quick.

 

WTF!?

[Lord Snooty]

20 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

Makes sense..the rate we're losing money at.... I can see ALL options on the table... not just FF.

We're not getting out of our financial predicament by being cute in the loan market like some seem to think.

 

It's only my opinion obviously but the accounts are audited and available to read...we need a huge chunk of income... quick.

 

WTF!?

 

Don't worry. She'll make sure we get money.

She got someone to pay three quarters of a million pounds... for Morgan Fox.

Well not be dropping our drawers and taking one up the ricker in any future sales, I'm pretty confident in that.

[Ante's Bubbly]

10 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

Makes sense..the rate we're losing money at.... I can see ALL options on the table... not just FF.

We're not getting out of our financial predicament by being cute in the loan market like some seem to think.

 

It's only my opinion obviously but the accounts are audited and available to read...we need a huge chunk of income... quick.

 

WTF!?

 

 Yes I agree.

 

That is why people are coming up with lists of players to get out of the club. However, it is not just transfer money we are wasting either. When we are told that the club is investing in quality, when they sign older experienced players on free contracts, but with high wages, surely the opposite also applies when we need to save money?

 

We are paying massive wages to players like Westwood, Fletcher, Boyd, Abdi, Jones and Rhodes with very little tangible return, whether under Carlos or under Jos. Now depending on whatever rumours you believe and how you view the wage bill in our last two years accounts, by removing these six players from the wage bill, we would be removing around £150K per week from the wage bill, x 52 gives us a saving of £7.8M per year. If you could just remove these six players from the bill and replace them with three younger fitter players, on a little less money, but with incentives that would take them to the same yearly wages if they perform to their best and get results, we would save just under £4M, with whatever money we could get from selling these players as a bonus.

 

OK we are not going to get rid of all these players, but out of my list of 14 to go, some could be sold, some could go on free contracts and some could be loaned out until they are either bought, or their contracts run out. We will most likely be stuck with some of those players too, as there are not too many clubs able to fork out the wages that they are already on with us, but I really do not believe that we have had anything like value for money out of these players and if they are not put on the transfer list, or touted around clubs that we are trying to get players from, we will have a similar sort of season next year to the one we have had this year. None of them are getting any younger, fitter or more skillful. Quite the opposite.

[gurujuan]

I’m not sure what our financial situation is, so really have no idea of how much we need to generate For me, it’s getting rid of the players who can’t adjust to the way the game is going Given our policy of recruiting players who’s best days are behind them, means we have a lot of them Biggest problem will be, getting the chairman to sanction this He’s spent so long defending our recruitment, that it would be seen as an admission of failure, were he to do so

[beloved_aunt]

1 hour ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

I was of the same belief, but quite frankly we cannot afford the luxury of having such a player, while scoring so few goals. 11 league goals is pretty good, but not when he is earning mega bucks. If he was scoring 20 plus league goals a season then fair enough, but his stats over the years do not support that and it is a bit too late in the day to teach this old dog any new tricks.

 

I am sorry to have to disappoint you, but I think Carlos managed to get him to his pre-retirement peak by getting 11 league goals out of him against championship opposition. He has not bettered his number of league goals unless you go back 10 years to when he was playing for Hibs against such footballing giants as Gretna and Caledonian Thistle and managed, I think, 12 league goals and his only ever (?) hat trick against Gretna.

 

In his 405 league appearances he has scored 110 goals, so pretty much one in four..

 

 

 

To be fair, I never said he was a goal machine in seasons gone past, just that his previous record was always better than Nuhiu's until a few matches ago. 

 

And I'm right.  If Fletch has been 1 in 4 in the past Nuhiu has been lower.  He's scored 26 goals in 170 Champs games (just 15%), 21 in 107 Austrian League games (1 in 5 roughly) and 2 in 28 in the Turkish top flight.

 

So my point - that if Jos's style can get career best figures out of Nuhiu, then he might also be able to coax similar out of a more talented player in Fletcher - still stands.

[DobbinTheDonkey]

9 hours ago, Holmowl said:

Reality check. Here’s how many games our “crocks” have played in the last 3 seasons:-

 

Fletch 97

Forestieri 83

Hooper 75

Hutch 75

 

Fletcher in particular gets a raw deal from posters. The way he battles and batters it’s hardly surprising he gets hurt. Moreover, unlike many a modern player, including some of our own I’m sure, he plays thru pain and heavy knocks.

 

Forestieri gets off unscathed on here. Despite only having one season in his career where he has been a regular few ever mention his availibility record.

 

All four of these very good players have their issues, but why Fletch is written-off I don’t get. Each needs infinitely better management than they got here over the past two seasons. 

 

 

 

 

Full games or part game does it include sub appearance because without the actual time on the pitch a 1 minute sub appearance = a 90 minute appearance.

[Lord Snooty]

Mind. Wanting a clear out is one thing...getting people to take them is quite another. 

[S36 OWL]

34 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

Mind. Wanting a clear out is one thing...getting people to take them is quite another. 

 

Exactly mate 

[Holmowl]

41 minutes ago, DobbinTheDonkey said:

 

 

Full games or part game does it include sub appearance because without the actual time on the pitch a 1 minute sub appearance = a 90 minute appearance.

 

Cor, you don’t want much. 

 

I will look up starts at some point. But even games played shows fitness. 

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

10 hours ago, Holmowl said:

Reality check. Here’s how many games our “crocks” have played in the last 3 seasons:-

 

Fletch 97

Forestieri 83

Hooper 75

Hutch 75

 

Fletcher in particular gets a raw deal from posters. The way he battles and batters it’s hardly surprising he gets hurt. Moreover, unlike many a modern player, including some of our own I’m sure, he plays thru pain and heavy knocks.

 

Forestieri gets off unscathed on here. Despite only having one season in his career where he has been a regular few ever mention his availibility record.

 

All four of these very good players have their issues, but why Fletch is written-off I don’t get. Each needs infinitely better management than they got here over the past two seasons. 

 

 

Are you sure about this mate

Hutch should be 75 minutes 

[handworth52]

westwood,palmer,loovens vanachio ,Wallace ,Hutchinson , jones,abdi,butterfield ,fletcher,hooper Rhodes ,matias  all need to go either there too old,no good,or are continually injured or getting knocks . some good players on my list but we cant afford to pay for players what hardly ever play . chances of all those going zero . 

[handworth52]

4 hours ago, outlaw pete said:

Hooper has only managed to play a full 90 min on only 30 times over the past three seasons at Hillsbrough.

 

wow that's shocking 30 full 90 mins out of 138 games in 3 years . and I believe he played very few 90 mins for his previous clubs too loads of sub appearances  .we cant afford these kind of players they are luxuries . we need players what are capable of playing appx 40 times a season . when hooper is fit I do rate him though at times I think he is lazy .

[shandypants]

On 03/04/2018 at 07:30, Philb125 said:

First time I can remember that I wouldn’t be upset if any of our players left in close season. Only a handful that I’d be close to, and if they went they’d be for good of club as have decent resale values. 

 

I think we could ship upward of ten players without even bringing one in and still have a better season next season. 

 

I’d be looking to move on (obviously requires a willing taker): 

 

Westwood - likely still has good resale value and whilst is probably best keeper in league I’m more than confident in young Joe in years to come. 

 

Loovens - don’t renew contract.

 

Pudil - don’t renew contract, done great job at CB but he’s likely a big earner as a decent CB, I’d rather take chance on JVA or Thornley next season.

 

Wallace - don’t renew contract

 

Butters - send back

 

Abdi - free to a good home, just want him off wage bill

 

Fletch - free to good home just want him off wage bill

 

Rhodes / Winnal Loan out - loan one of these out, neither likely to sell for what they are worth but if a good season as main striker elsewhere both could be worth quite a bit in Jan or next year 

 

That’s 8 and sure could chuck another 6 on if you twisted my arm, obviously all won’t go and we have to get rid of those in a way that is good for the club - which may take several windows and contracts to run down. 

 

I’d be keeping the squad players that are often slated on here but probably earn a lot less Nuhiu, Palmer, Fox - all happy to do a job when called upon and probably combined cost less than Abdi earns. 

 

I’d bring youth through where we can: 2 CB’s looked decent so far, as has Clare. I’d like to see the RWB that’s made bench few times get a game in running as Penney (shame he’s out on loan). 

 

At a rough guess getting rid of 8 of above could save 100k a week (conservative guess), I think we are due a transitional season where we have to balance books a bit at just compete while we ship out some of the deadwood.

I’d agree with that wholeheartedly. 

[daftpenguin]

7 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Don't worry. She'll make sure we get money.

She got someone to pay three quarters of a million pounds... for Morgan Fox.

 

Yeah, US. 

[cognacbarnowl]

On ‎03‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 07:11, bladeshater said:

Will we get an identical thread later because it's been done to death 

 

 

One should be along shortly, old chap. You know what it's like. You wait five minutes for one and then sixteen of the buggers show up together  

[Steelman]

On 03/04/2018 at 06:59, Nath83 said:

Probably still too early to be thinking about the end of season changes needed, but couldn’t help myself now I'm sure we're safe.

I reckon we should move out 10 players:
Palmer
Loovens
Fox
Butterfield
Jones
Wallace
Abdi
Matias
Rhodes
Fletcher

 

In return, I think we need to sign 6:
RB, CB, 2 x LB, a beast in CM & a creative CM.

I would happily drive Fox, Abdi and especially Matias to whichever club will have them. Just got a new motor so it would be fun, distance isn't a problem. I'd even drive them to China and pay for the fuel myself. It would be my pleasure.