Let's judge Jos on these eight games

[StudentOwl]

There's been a lot of talk of speculation as to whether Jos will stay or leave at the end of the season, with McCarthy being one of a few names touted as a possible replacement. Equally there's been plenty of talking as to whether Jos is the right appointment and has got what it takes to be anything other than a stop-gap boss this season. For me he's done things both good and bad... some decisions and approaches I've been right behind, others have left me as baffled as some of the tactical decisions CC made. Through it all though, I think it's worth bearing in mind that he came in at a low point during the most ridiculous injury crisis I've ever known of in football. Seemingly, he's stopped a bit of a rot in the last 2/3 fixtures too.

 

So with that in mind, we also find that his first international break as manager nicely splits off the back-end of the season into a nice block of 8. We've had a few of our key players and spine returning from injury in the last couple of weeks, with a couple more peripheral players hoping to be back over the next couple of weeks. For me, it's a blank slate. 8 games in which he should be judged... he's had time to settle the squad and impose a bit of his own tactical ideas onto the squad, so no excuses for still settling in. These 8 games are going to be the best indicator we'll get of what a full season with a Jos team will look like. A 4-1 win in game one is a good start... let's see what the others bring. 

[ramone]

I did a similar thread last week.

 

Yesterday, although the 4-1 scoreline reads well, it was as far from a 4-1 game as you'll see and we were dead lucky to win the game, let alone come out with a thrashing. 

 

For me, we need to see much improved performances. The starting line was baffling. It didn't work. Fair play to him, he made the right change at half time. I suspect he wouldn't have made it had Hutch not been injured.

Edited March 31, 2018 by ramone

[Sultan_Pepper]

4 minutes ago, ramone said:

I did a similar thread last week.

 

Yesterday, although the 4-1 scoreline reads well, it was as far from a 4-1 game as you'll see and we were dead lucky to win the game, let alone come out with a thrashing. 

 

For me, we need to see much improved performances. The starting line was baffling. It didn't work. Fair play to him, he made the right change at half time. I suspect he wouldn't have made it had Hutch not been injured.

Every silver lining has a cloud eh?

 

He had his first full week to work with the squad and we beat Leeds 2-0. He gets 12 days with the squad and we win 4-1.

 

With maths like that we should be winning 64-0 after a full close season. All aboard the Jos train. Woo woo.

[ramone]

2 minutes ago, Sultan_Pepper said:

Every silver lining has a cloud eh?

 

He had his first full week to work with the squad and we beat Leeds 2-0. He gets 12 days with the squad and we win 4-1.

 

With maths like that we should be winning 64-0 after a full close season. All aboard the Jos train. Woo woo.

Just a realistic outlook. Its easy to sit there and look at ceefax and see that Wednesday won 4-1 and automatically think we've dominated from start to finish.

 

The reality was so different. Had Hutch not been injured, I dare say it would have been.

 

Joao should never be dropped again while he's in the form he is. He's turning into our most important players at the moment.

Edited March 31, 2018 by ramone

[OxonOwl]

Bit like Villa in reverse. 

[Johnny Concrete]

13 minutes ago, ramone said:

I did a similar thread last week.

 

Yesterday, although the 4-1 scoreline reads well, it was as far from a 4-1 game as you'll see and we were dead lucky to win the game, let alone come out with a thrashing. 

 

For me, we need to see much improved performances. The starting line was baffling. It didn't work. Fair play to him, he made the right change at half time. I suspect he wouldn't have made it had Hutch not been injured.

 

Totally agree, regarding the performance I thought first half it was absolutely woeful and to start with just one man upfront at home is criminal no matter the opposition. If Preston had their shooting boots on yesterday they could have easily had 4/5 themselves. Although the result was fantastic, we rode our luck and as we saw under Carlos eventually the luck will dry up and the lack of persomance will be exposed.

[TheEnchanter]

Shock horror when he has decent players to choose we win games. 

[ramone]

1 minute ago, Johnny Concrete said:

 

Totally agree, regarding the performance I thought first half it was absolutely woeful and to start with just one man upfront at home is criminal no matter the opposition. If Preston had their shooting boots on yesterday they could have easily had 4/5 themselves. Although the result was fantastic, we rode our luck and as we saw under Carlos eventually the luck will dry up and the lack of persomance will be exposed.

Lets not forget that they hit the post as well just after they scored (if I remember correctly) so we could have easily have lost it yesterday even after going 2-0 up. Once we got the second, we stopped playing until the 90th minute.

 

Worrying

[StudentOwl]

16 minutes ago, ramone said:

I did a similar thread last week.

 

Yesterday, although the 4-1 scoreline reads well, it was as far from a 4-1 game as you'll see and we were dead lucky to win the game, let alone come out with a thrashing. 

 

For me, we need to see much improved performances. The starting line was baffling. It didn't work. Fair play to him, he made the right change at half time. I suspect he wouldn't have made it had Hutch not been injured.

I think I'd be less critical in my use of language... but to a certain extent yeah you're right. Delighted with the 4-1 win, but it flattered us a little in what was largely an even game. We probably edged it, but a 3 goal margin is pushing it. After the first 45 minutes I rated it a 3/10 half... very meh. But maybe Jos will learn. And even then, I wouldn't mind it if we get a good result every game, especially with the noticeable second half improvement and tactical correction. It's why I think judging the 8 as a whole is going to be the best way of seeing exactly how he works in an environment where he's got something resembling a squad to choose from, without the immediate threat of relegation with a club in freefall.

 

Also sorry for not seeing/remembering your thread! Can't argue it's the right sort of idea. It's a good test. 

[Salmonbones]

Kind of disagree.

 

Get to the end of the season having assessed what he has at his disposal.    For the first time in a long time, we get a clean slate under a new regime with someone who has a full preseason under his belt and then some.

 

Christmas is when he should be judged to be honest.

[Mr Soul]

I appreciate we were lucky against PNE but that luck returned a win

That there is the reality.

And surely this season we deserved some luck? 

[slinger208b]

Let's not.

 

Let's give him close season...

[ramone]

2 minutes ago, StudentOwl said:

I think I'd be less critical in my use of language... but to a certain extent yeah you're right. Delighted with the 4-1 win, but it flattered us a little in what was largely an even game. We probably edged it, but a 3 goal margin is pushing it. After the first 45 minutes I rated it a 3/10 half... very meh. But maybe Jos will learn. And even then, I wouldn't mind it if we get a good result every game, especially with the noticeable second half improvement and tactical correction. It's why I think judging the 8 as a whole is going to be the best way of seeing exactly how he works in an environment where he's got something resembling a squad to choose from, without the immediate threat of relegation with a club in freefall.

 

Also sorry for not seeing/remembering your thread! Can't argue it's the right sort of idea. It's a good test. 

Oh, no need for an apology. I was just pointing out we share a similar view on this.

 

I think he needed a bit of time with the players. The international break allowed him some serious time on the pitch to implement ideas. I can't say I was too bowled over with what I saw. But I was happy last season when we were winning games without particularly impressing too much. We found a way. I just felt like 'the way' yesterday was because he had his hand forced rather than him doing it off his own back. 

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

The absolute last thing anyone needs is trying to do something with a gun held to their head. Just get on with it Jos, that is all ! 

[StudentOwl]

Just now, HubristicClapper said:

Kind of disagree.

 

Get to the end of the season having assessed what he has at his disposal.    For the first time in a long time, we get a clean slate under a new regime with someone who has a full preseason under his belt and then some.

 

Christmas is when he should be judged to be honest.

As a hypothetical, say we lost our remaining seven games and stayed up by a point... would you want him to stay on until at least Christmas? 

 

I get where you're coming from, but IMO we should be in the play-offs next season, that should be the level of expectation we have (rightly or wrongly). There's no point going into next season with a manager who we don't believe can achieve that. If Jos can get close to a play-off finish points average over these 8 games with a decent-but-still-depleted squad, then I think that works as an indicator about what he can do and he would have earned that chance. But I think it should be something he earns rather than something assumed. And I also think it's unfair to really do much of any sort of judgement based on the last dozen-or-so fixtures because of the difficult position he came into.

[IstillhateSteveBould]

15 minutes ago, ramone said:

Just a realistic outlook. Its easy to sit there and look at ceefax and see that Wednesday won 4-1 and automatically think we've dominated from start to finish.

 

The reality was so different. Had Hutch not been injured, I dare say it would have been.

 

Joao should never be dropped again while he's in the form he is. He's turning into our most important players at the moment.

 

Agreeing with a lot of your posts at the moment.

 

[StudentOwl]

Just now, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

The absolute last thing anyone needs is trying to do something with a gun held to their head. Just get on with it Jos, that is all ! 

Another way of looking at it is it wipes the slate clean of what could be perceived as underperformance in his first few games. Yes we were in the poops, but those run of results will reflect badly on his record. Let's just ignore that and start again. 

[ramone]

1 minute ago, IstillhateSteveBould said:

 

Agreeing with a lot of your posts at the moment.

 

Whats going on!! 

[torres]

27 minutes ago, ramone said:

I did a similar thread last week.

 

Yesterday, although the 4-1 scoreline reads well, it was as far from a 4-1 game as you'll see and we were dead lucky to win the game, let alone come out with a thrashing. 

 

For me, we need to see much improved performances. The starting line was baffling. It didn't work. Fair play to him, he made the right change at half time. I suspect he wouldn't have made it had Hutch not been injured.

 

You’ll probably get hammered on here by the highlight watchers pal but you are totally correct 

 

The way he set us up was nothing short of ridiculous 

Hutchinson getting injured forced him to change it to something more decent 

 

Yet we still only played well for 10-15 in the whole match.

 

I would take a lucky 4-1 win everyday but let’s not kid ourselves we battered them 

 

Jury is still very much out 

[Morepork]

We did well yesterday, we were clinical in front of goal whilst Preston were profligate. It resulted in a somewhat distorted scoreline but one we've been on the wrong end of plenty of times. On another day we could easily have drawn or lost the game but that really is the nature of the Championship, the margins between winning and losing are so fine and as you'll often hear that first goal is critical.

 

Sometimes it's easy to get carried away with the scoreline and dismiss the detail, something we were guilty of in CC's first two seasons. In those seasons we got results and even plenty of clean sheets but for some time we have been a team that affords the opposition way too many opportunities in front of goal, this ultimately makes being successful that much more unlikely.

 

In terms of the OP, I don't think it's fair to judge JL until he's had a season of his own, coming into this car crash has been incredibly difficult and we probably don't know the half of it. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Morepork