'The players aren't good enough' - The Myth

[Guest Hillsborough Mole]

We have one of the largest squads in the division

 

All club's have injuries

 

All club's get bad refereeing decisions against them

 

We've got to stop making excuses and accept that neither Carlos or Loss Juhunky are good enough to motivate this squad

[S36 OWL]

Just now, Hillsborough Mole said:

We have one of the largest squads in the division

 

All club's have injuries

 

All club's get bad refereeing decisions against them

 

We've got to stop making excuses and accept that neither Carlos or Loss Juhunky are good enough to motivate this squad

 

Hit the nail on the head mate 

[torryowl]

8 minutes ago, torres said:

 

There were countless games last season where i came out thinking - how the hell have we won that.

 

Agree completely it is all about the result  - if we somehow got 46 1-0 wins i would be the happiest man alive -EVER 

 

But if you fail to recognise that you are being a tad fortunate  - it can often bite you in the backside - step forward this season 

 

 

 

 

you cant possibly think this season is down to us being lucky last season and not recognising the fact .......I prefer to think that having big hitters like FF ,hutch,bannan,fletcher,hooper ,westwood,lee, out for vast numbers of games that they collectively played last season is a more valid reason. .......you count up how many games that lot played last season and the amount they are going to play this . it's huge difference so no surprise that we have struggled as we have . 

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

1 hour ago, FreshOwl said:

I’m sorry but since when was Van Aken the shining light? 

 

Everyone highlights him as one of our main stars out injured, apart from the forest home game he hasn’t been very good and made a number of mistakes 

Was mainly on about the others who are undisputedly huge misses but Van Aken was available then and might well have been useful these past couple of months. 

[torres]

5 minutes ago, torryowl said:

you cant possibly think this season is down to us being lucky last season and not recognising the fact .......I prefer to think that having big hitters like FF ,hutch,bannan,fletcher,hooper ,westwood,lee, out for vast numbers of games that they collectively played last season is a more valid reason. .......you count up how many games that lot played last season and the amount they are going to play this . it's huge difference so no surprise that we have struggled as we have . 

 

We were hardly pulling up trees with most of the ''Big hitters'' in.

 

 

[torres]

21 minutes ago, Hillsborough Mole said:

We have one of the largest squads in the division

 

All club's have injuries

 

All club's get bad refereeing decisions against them

 

We've got to stop making excuses and accept that neither Carlos or Loss Juhunky are good enough to motivate this squad

 

I don't think it's anything to do with motivation personally, i think every player in the squad bar Hooper puts as much as they can into a game.

 

Motivation doesn't make Hunt able to cross a ball or make the right decision in the final third

 

Motivation doesn't make Jones quick or Rhodes  . ..  . .erm  . . .anything!

 

Collectively they are not good enough at the minute 

 

 

 

 

[e6owl]

I think it's too easy to just compare names and assume that because we've payed a lot for a player that means he should just be better than his opponent. 

 

At the end of the day it's a confidence problem, and that's not something that a fitness coach or Jos can fix. It can only really be fixed by the players. You can tell that when the players come out onto the pitch they're already mentally defeated. In the midfield they'd rather do a comfortable backpass than try to be ambitious cause they don't trust themselves to play well. Strikers like Rhodes don't trust themselves to finish properly so just grasp at every chance and end up missing. 

 

It'd be interesting to see if Jos has brought in a sports psychologist, they're really popular in Germany but have never really taken off in England. imo getting the players mentally fit/resilient is gonna be key to survival.

[Belfast Owl 2]

1 hour ago, frastheowl said:

 

I've stated this in another thread, where a lack of PASHUN from the manager and the players is the reason for our poor form.

 

But, performance is a matrix of a number of factors..ability.fitness, work rate, confidence, sharpness, mentality, experience etc. etc. 

 

At the minute, the club is in a situation where arguably NINE of our best XI are unavailable. Now that is simply unprecedented. And it's not a scenario that is going to yield consistent, high level performances.

 

We are forced to play players who have been deemed either 2nd best (at best!) or totally surplus to requirements over the past 12 to 18 months. 

 

Add another ingredient into the mix...we've been forced (or used the opportunity) to blood youngsters. Clare, Stobbs, Thorniley, Wildmsith and Dawson have only a handful of first team appearances between them...we're expecting them to come into a side, totally decimated by injuries, and play alongside players who have been deemed not good enough for the past 12 months. 

 

And then lets finally throw in, confidence. The biggest factor of all. The team are totally, and utterly bereft of confidence, perhaps Joao aside. They are continually making poor decisions, normal routine passes look difficult, every first touch appears to be thought about. Nothing is happening naturally...2nd nature. 

 

So, compared to Bolton and Ipswich was our starting XI inferior? Maybe...maybe not. There's valid arguments either way. Neither can be proved. But, the ability of the players is just one of a number of factors at play. We're Bolton's and Ipswich's starting XI missing NINE of their normal first XI? No. Did they contain an almost entirety of players who have been deemed not good enough for them over a long period of time? No. Have they been forced to throw in youngsters with only a handful of appearances under their belt at this level? No. Are they players of Ipswich and Bolton, totally and utterly bereft of confidence like we are? No.

 

That's why results and performances aren't great. There's no big conspiracy. The manager isn't useless. The players aren't not caring (except Palmer on Tuesday night). It's simply a utterly bizarre and almost unheard of set of circumstances. That's not to absolve blame altogether. Some players performances are good enough, but there's reasons for it. Luhukay has made some errors, but he's fire fighting with a bucket of water with holes in the bottom...he's not going to be flawless in that situation. 

 

As fans we need to acknowledge it. And we need to accept, that it's going to be a slog towards the end of the season. Hopefully, the reduction in the rate of fixtures can see Luhukay finally begin to instil his philosophy on the side, and hopefully ease some players back from injury. 

 

Excellent Post.

 

Sums it up for me and this will go down as the most bizarre season of them all.

 

 

[oldishowl]

19 minutes ago, torres said:

 

I don't think it's anything to do with motivation personally, i think every player in the squad bar Hooper puts as much as they can into a game.

 

Motivation doesn't make Hunt able to cross a ball or make the right decision in the final third

 

Motivation doesn't make Jones quick or Rhodes  . ..  . .erm  . . .anything!

 

Collectively they are not good enough at the minute 

 

 

 

 

I agree

I don’t think Jos is the answer , he has made too many tactical errors for me, but I get so fed up when we continually say that professional footballers are not motivated enough by the manager. 

When they go on the pitch they have a job to do and that includes battling for the team, winning tackles, headers etc. We don’t do it enough and that is down to the individuals will to win. 

Equally the fact that Hunt messed up crosses or Atty missed a great chance is nowt to do with manager.

I hope Jos manages to keep us up but I wouldn’t keep him but I would love to get rid of a lot of the players as well 

[Costello 77]

1 hour ago, frastheowl said:

 

I've stated this in another thread, where a lack of PASHUN from the manager and the players is the reason for our poor form.

 

But, performance is a matrix of a number of factors..ability.fitness, work rate, confidence, sharpness, mentality, experience etc. etc. 

 

At the minute, the club is in a situation where arguably NINE of our best XI are unavailable. Now that is simply unprecedented. And it's not a scenario that is going to yield consistent, high level performances.

 

We are forced to play players who have been deemed either 2nd best (at best!) or totally surplus to requirements over the past 12 to 18 months. 

 

Add another ingredient into the mix...we've been forced (or used the opportunity) to blood youngsters. Clare, Stobbs, Thorniley, Wildmsith and Dawson have only a handful of first team appearances between them...we're expecting them to come into a side, totally decimated by injuries, and play alongside players who have been deemed not good enough for the past 12 months. 

 

And then lets finally throw in, confidence. The biggest factor of all. The team are totally, and utterly bereft of confidence, perhaps Joao aside. They are continually making poor decisions, normal routine passes look difficult, every first touch appears to be thought about. Nothing is happening naturally...2nd nature. 

 

So, compared to Bolton and Ipswich was our starting XI inferior? Maybe...maybe not. There's valid arguments either way. Neither can be proved. But, the ability of the players is just one of a number of factors at play. We're Bolton's and Ipswich's starting XI missing NINE of their normal first XI? No. Did they contain an almost entirety of players who have been deemed not good enough for them over a long period of time? No. Have they been forced to throw in youngsters with only a handful of appearances under their belt at this level? No. Are they players of Ipswich and Bolton, totally and utterly bereft of confidence like we are? No.

 

That's why results and performances aren't great. There's no big conspiracy. The manager isn't useless. The players aren't not caring (except Palmer on Tuesday night). It's simply a utterly bizarre and almost unheard of set of circumstances. That's not to absolve blame altogether. Some players performances are good enough, but there's reasons for it. Luhukay has made some errors, but he's fire fighting with a bucket of water with holes in the bottom...he's not going to be flawless in that situation. 

 

As fans we need to acknowledge it. And we need to accept, that it's going to be a slog towards the end of the season. Hopefully, the reduction in the rate of fixtures can see Luhukay finally begin to instil his philosophy on the side, and hopefully ease some players back from injury. 

Good post.   Goonybird.

 

WTF!?

[mrrodge]

6 hours ago, torryowl said:

that's all he's got available ......bannan,hooper, FF, lee, fletch,matias, Wallace,van aken, abdi, hutch westwood all out .....how do you create a system that can cover for them 

 

I'd have played 3-4-3. Same team but 3 centre backs the same, reach and Hunt as the wing backs, 2 central midfielders and Nuhiu up top through the centre with Joao and Boyd on the flanks

[Lawrie’s Left Peg]

Maybe we could have a virtual swear box for anyone rolling out the tired cliches*

“Its all CC’s fault”

“its all DC’s fault”

”it’s all Rhodes fault”

”all our best players are injured”

”none of our players are fit”

*or variations of the above.

Some or all of the above may be true. We’re in a mess. JLhas a very difficult job. We know. WE GET IT!!!!!!

Surely the OP is about whether JL has done a good job with what he has, not harping on about what he hasn’t got. Personally I don’t think he has been able to make the best of a bad lot due to tactics, formations, team selection, motivation and body language.

[fred mciver]

Where were injuries at Preston away?

 

As seen , squad was way unbalanced with lack of quality stoppers and steel in centre.

 

And Fessi is current Di Canio. Mighty miss.

[Hookowl]

6 minutes ago, Lawrie’s Left Peg said:

Maybe we could have a virtual swear box for anyone rolling out the tired cliches*

“Its all CC’s fault”

“its all DC’s fault”

”it’s all Rhodes fault”

”all our best players are injured”

”none of our players are fit”

*or variations of the above.

Some or all of the above may be true. We’re in a mess. JLhas a very difficult job. We know. WE GET IT!!!!!!

Surely the OP is about whether JL has done a good job with what he has, not harping on about what he hasn’t got. Personally I don’t think he has been able to make the best of a bad lot due to tactics, formations, team selection, motivation and body language.

 

Sorry couldn't resist.

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Hookowl

[Jim]

I think things might improve when Jos is able to switch to his preferred 4-2-3-1 formation but I suspect we won't see this until next season?

[Elvin Parsnip]

The problem is they can’t play as a team - Rochdale did - even if half our team now plays well there is always an individual mistake and the mental strength of these players is exposed for what it is - weak. I remember Carlos saying he took the players who weren’t playing  for training to make them feel involved and important- this totally contradicts his comments about regretting isolating them and not being able to motivate them ....

[Pale Rider]

Not only are they not at the required level, several shouldn’t be playing at this level. You also have the added problem of very little character being in the team. There’s no leadership making easy for players to hide. 

[kingsidney]

11 hours ago, Matt_1 said:

 

Now make a list of how many actual matchwinners we have available to us? How many players would get into any of the top 6 teams as it stands?

 

I'll make a list of the matchwinners who would walk into at least 1 team in the top 6, as it stands.

Forestieri

Bannan

Fletcher

Hooper

Lee

Westwood

 

That's it. Now you tell me, from your list, how many of those players are top 6 match winning standard.

 

I'm not talking about being able to play in a top 6 team.

 

I'm talking players who would displace the players the other top 6 teams currently have.

He didn’t say they should be too 6. Just that they equally shouldn’t be bottom 6. 

[myHero]

12 hours ago, ramone said:

Its really starting to wind me up this argument. 

 

These are professional footballers for christs sake. They are players that, if given the right tools and instructions, are more than capable of going out and winning games of football. Easily. Paul Cook set his team of League One footballers and beat the best team on the planet currently. Keith Hill and Mike Flynn set their team of League One and League Two players up to get a result against Tottenham. Leicester City were a team that had nearly been relegated the season before and Claudio went and won the Premier League with them. 

 

My point is, even if we had a bunch of wasters on the pitch, you can still make them feel 10 feet tall and go out on a pitch for 90 minutes and get a result. My issue here is Jos has consistently rubbished the players that are currently available, talking about players being out etc and this has knocked the last remaining bit of confidence out of them. Along with constantly changing the team so players cant form partnerships and a consistency in their performances. 

 

The players aren't good enough to get us in the play offs, granted. But blimey, the players have the capabilities to pick up up a few wins every now and then if given the right instructions to do so. How many of these players get into our team...?

 

B.Biakowski                                                      B.Alnwick

A.Webster                                                        A.Taylor

L.Chambers                                                     M.Beevers

C.Carter-Vickers                                              R.Burke

J.Knudsen                                                        J.Flannagan

C.Connelly                                                        Derik

C.Skuse                                                            K.Henry

L.Hiam                                                              W.Buckley

J.Spence                                                          D.Pratley

M.Waghorn                                                       S.Ameobi

M.Carayol                                                         A.Le Fondre

 

Go on, you're telling me that ANY of these players that we've faced (ON OUR OWN PATCH) in the last 2 games get into our current side? None of them do in my opinion. And we managed ONE solitary point against them. 

 

The problem, in my opinion, is the mindset they're being sent on to the pitch with. 

 

 

I agree, but that mindset was already there before Jos arrived. 

 

It's difficult to turn things around mid season when things are heading in the wrong direction in the first place. 

 

[vulture_squadron]

12 hours ago, ramone said:

I really wouldn't... You're just making excuses. I'm sorry

If you saw a 3 man midfield of Reach, Pelupessy and Clare and Nuhiu up front at the start of the season you would have gone WTF? who?  who? no flipping way! 

 

Like others have said - this second string aren't terrible players they're just not good enough together. Mixed in with some quality they might do a decent job and even improve but all together it's a stop gap and nothing else.