Lord Snooty Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, room0035 said: I seem to remember that bloke but didn't he have a champions league semi final on his cv, two world cups and 60+ appearance for his national side - As you may have guess i am not talking about Nuihu I also seem to remember us signing a 35 year old center back who in two season played over 70 games for us and chipped in with 8 league goals or more goals than Nuihu and Lees have got between them in two season. Age should not be an issue if the players are fit and managed correctly but both of these players were managed by and English manager with experience of managing in the English league and also one that was able to play different formations. We had an excellent side at the time challenging for top honours. They were older. Certainly. And had usually had a thorough pre season fitness regime to work through with Roger Spry didn't they? A good base fitness will always help rather than playing catch up. Though I think we'd all agree that the game is a bit more furious these days isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitcat Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Yawn. English manager, familiar with the English game.....Yawn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, room0035 said: STOP PLAYING SO DEFENSIVELY, stop picking players that the chairman decide on and instead pick your strongest 11 players who are fit Sorry to just pick the one bit out of your post. But are you genuinly suggesting the Chairman is picking the team? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxonOwl Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I think there are some that extrapolate from "DC will not allow GH to play in the first team" to "the chairman is picking the team". They are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torres Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, ramone said: Got away with murder over a 46 game season and finished 4th??.... Come on mate. ''Away with murder'' is a bit OTT granted but look through that season and there is 30 points easily we gained when we second best Yes it's all about winning, but performances catch up with you at some point - we only played well in 3 or 4 games last season - 2 were against Newcastle!! We papered over the cracks and we are getting punished for it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramone Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, torres said: ''Away with murder'' is a bit OTT granted but look through that season and there is 30 points easily we gained when we second best Yes it's all about winning, but performances catch up with you at some point - we only played well in 3 or 4 games last season - 2 were against Newcastle!! We papered over the cracks and we are getting punished for it now In my opinion, we just changed approach. I agree that last wasn't particularly pretty to watch but we got the job done. No complaints from me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Arcadianrocket Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 3 hours ago, ramone said: Its really starting to wind me up this argument. These are professional footballers for christs sake. They are players that, if given the right tools and instructions, are more than capable of going out and winning games of football. Easily. Paul Cook set his team of League One footballers and beat the best team on the planet currently. Keith Hill and Mike Flynn set their team of League One and League Two players up to get a result against Tottenham. Leicester City were a team that had nearly been relegated the season before and Claudio went and won the Premier League with them. My point is, even if we had a bunch of wasters on the pitch, you can still make them feel 10 feet tall and go out on a pitch for 90 minutes and get a result. My issue here is Jos has consistently rubbished the players that are currently available, talking about players being out etc and this has knocked the last remaining bit of confidence out of them. Along with constantly changing the team so players cant form partnerships and a consistency in their performances. The players aren't good enough to get us in the play offs, granted. But blimey, the players have the capabilities to pick up up a few wins every now and then if given the right instructions to do so. How many of these players get into our team...? B.Biakowski B.Alnwick A.Webster A.Taylor L.Chambers M.Beevers C.Carter-Vickers R.Burke J.Knudsen J.Flannagan C.Connelly Derik C.Skuse K.Henry L.Hiam W.Buckley J.Spence D.Pratley M.Waghorn S.Ameobi M.Carayol A.Le Fondre Go on, you're telling me that ANY of these players that we've faced (ON OUR OWN PATCH) in the last 2 games get into our current side? None of them do in my opinion. And we managed ONE solitary point against them. The problem, in my opinion, is the mindset they're being sent on to the pitch with. Spot on mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: We had an excellent side at the time challenging for top honours. They were older. Certainly. And had usually had a thorough pre season fitness regime to work through with Roger Spry didn't they? A good base fitness will always help rather than playing catch up. Though I think we'd all agree that the game is a bit more furious these days isn't it? Different game now, not as much quality as the 80/90's everything seems to be built on pass the two best left wingers we have had in the last 30 years in Waddle and Brunt neither could sprint a full back for pace but both tricked their way to the byline to get the crosses in. It is scary to think watching Hirst, Waddle, Sheridan, Carbone DiCanio play for us could be the best it will ever get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
room0035 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said: Sorry to just pick the one bit out of your post. But are you genuinly suggesting the Chairman is picking the team? No it was me ranting about one player not being able to play and other players mysteriously having injuries when they haven't signed a contract ala Clare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Snooty Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, room0035 said: Different game now, not as much quality as the 80/90's everything seems to be built on pass the two best left wingers we have had in the last 30 years in Waddle and Brunt neither could sprint a full back for pace but both tricked their way to the byline to get the crosses in. It is scary to think watching Hirst, Waddle, Sheridan, Carbone DiCanio play for us could be the best it will ever get. Who knows. We might both be worm food by the time it happens but one day The Wednesday wise rise again to glory! 4 minutes ago, room0035 said: No it was me ranting about one player not being able to play and other players mysteriously having injuries when they haven't signed a contract ala Clare. Aye. The Hirst situation seems a unique one. Clearly much more to it than meets the eye. Doubt we'll ever get full disclosure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prowl Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, room0035 said: Different game now, not as much quality as the 80/90's everything seems to be built on pass the two best left wingers we have had in the last 30 years in Waddle and Brunt neither could sprint a full back for pace but both tricked their way to the byline to get the crosses in. It is scary to think watching Hirst, Waddle, Sheridan, Carbone DiCanio play for us could be the best it will ever get. To be fair if we can get players 70% as good as those I'd be reasonably happy. I'm an optimist so I have to believe that at some point when the stars align in a certain way and the wind blows in the right direction for long enough we will have players just as good. I don't know if it will happen, I don't know when it will happen but I live in hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitcat Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I've heard it's all just a cunning plan.. Can't divulge my sources, but we're deliberately holding back so our odds lengthen next season. The chairman will then stick a wad on and fund the following season. This is FACT from a first team player and in no way a conspiracy theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldishowl Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 4 hours ago, ramone said: Its really starting to wind me up this argument. These are professional footballers for christs sake. They are players that, if given the right tools and instructions, are more than capable of going out and winning games of football. Easily. Paul Cook set his team of League One footballers and beat the best team on the planet currently. Keith Hill and Mike Flynn set their team of League One and League Two players up to get a result against Tottenham. Leicester City were a team that had nearly been relegated the season before and Claudio went and won the Premier League with them. My point is, even if we had a bunch of wasters on the pitch, you can still make them feel 10 feet tall and go out on a pitch for 90 minutes and get a result. My issue here is Jos has consistently rubbished the players that are currently available, talking about players being out etc and this has knocked the last remaining bit of confidence out of them. Along with constantly changing the team so players cant form partnerships and a consistency in their performances. The players aren't good enough to get us in the play offs, granted. But blimey, the players have the capabilities to pick up up a few wins every now and then if given the right instructions to do so. How many of these players get into our team...? B.Biakowski B.Alnwick A.Webster A.Taylor L.Chambers M.Beevers C.Carter-Vickers R.Burke J.Knudsen J.Flannagan C.Connelly Derik C.Skuse K.Henry L.Hiam W.Buckley J.Spence D.Pratley M.Waghorn S.Ameobi M.Carayol A.Le Fondre Go on, you're telling me that ANY of these players that we've faced (ON OUR OWN PATCH) in the last 2 games get into our current side? None of them do in my opinion. And we managed ONE solitary point against them. The problem, in my opinion, is the mindset they're being sent on to the pitch with. Just the names I know and have seen play more than one game Both keepers are better than Wildsmith Chambers and Beevers would strengthen our back 3 alongside Tom Lees Knudsen is a better left back than any of ours Skuse, Henry and Pratley would all have added steel and workrate to our midfield which was missing in both games Waghorn and Amoebi do a far better job week in week out in the championship than Atty or Rhodes. When a player crosses the white line he is accountable for his own performance and doing his job. Tom Lees stood out on Saturday because he won his personal battles against the opposition player. Too many of our players don’t do that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshOwl Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Xxxxxxxxcxcc said: Carlos's last 7 games showed that the wheels were coming off and he had Hutch, Lees, Bannan, Wallace, Van Aken and Hooper available for quite a few of those games IIRC and Lee for one or two. Jos admittedly had Wallace for his first few games. Hutch, Bannan and Lees might well all be fit and ready after the international break; possibly FF too. I'm very confident that the value of those will be seen on their return and our fortunes will change. Carlos is rightly gone and its now just a case of limping over the line this season. Jos should best be judged after a pre-season and his own squad after a summer of wheeling and dealing. I’m sorry but since when was Van Aken the shining light? Everyone highlights him as one of our main stars out injured, apart from the forest home game he hasn’t been very good and made a number of mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frastheowl Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I've stated this in another thread, where a lack of PASHUN from the manager and the players is the reason for our poor form. But, performance is a matrix of a number of factors..ability.fitness, work rate, confidence, sharpness, mentality, experience etc. etc. At the minute, the club is in a situation where arguably NINE of our best XI are unavailable. Now that is simply unprecedented. And it's not a scenario that is going to yield consistent, high level performances. We are forced to play players who have been deemed either 2nd best (at best!) or totally surplus to requirements over the past 12 to 18 months. Add another ingredient into the mix...we've been forced (or used the opportunity) to blood youngsters. Clare, Stobbs, Thorniley, Wildmsith and Dawson have only a handful of first team appearances between them...we're expecting them to come into a side, totally decimated by injuries, and play alongside players who have been deemed not good enough for the past 12 months. And then lets finally throw in, confidence. The biggest factor of all. The team are totally, and utterly bereft of confidence, perhaps Joao aside. They are continually making poor decisions, normal routine passes look difficult, every first touch appears to be thought about. Nothing is happening naturally...2nd nature. So, compared to Bolton and Ipswich was our starting XI inferior? Maybe...maybe not. There's valid arguments either way. Neither can be proved. But, the ability of the players is just one of a number of factors at play. We're Bolton's and Ipswich's starting XI missing NINE of their normal first XI? No. Did they contain an almost entirety of players who have been deemed not good enough for them over a long period of time? No. Have they been forced to throw in youngsters with only a handful of appearances under their belt at this level? No. Are they players of Ipswich and Bolton, totally and utterly bereft of confidence like we are? No. That's why results and performances aren't great. There's no big conspiracy. The manager isn't useless. The players aren't not caring (except Palmer on Tuesday night). It's simply a utterly bizarre and almost unheard of set of circumstances. That's not to absolve blame altogether. Some players performances are good enough, but there's reasons for it. Luhukay has made some errors, but he's fire fighting with a bucket of water with holes in the bottom...he's not going to be flawless in that situation. As fans we need to acknowledge it. And we need to accept, that it's going to be a slog towards the end of the season. Hopefully, the reduction in the rate of fixtures can see Luhukay finally begin to instil his philosophy on the side, and hopefully ease some players back from injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitcat Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) Wednesday will rise again, like a bulbous cöck. Edited March 12, 2018 by Hitcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 hour ago, torres said: ''Away with murder'' is a bit OTT granted but look through that season and there is 30 points easily we gained when we second best Yes it's all about winning, but performances catch up with you at some point - we only played well in 3 or 4 games last season - 2 were against Newcastle!! We papered over the cracks and we are getting punished for it now .you stop the other side scoring and score yourself you deserve to win the game .....it's not down to luck , we scored a shed load of late goals last season again that's nothing to do with luck . it's what good sides do .......you cant finish 4th with 81 points and only play well 3 or 4 times .you might not like how we played but just because we erred on the defensive side doesn't mean we were lucky or didn't play it well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancashireowl Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 5 hours ago, ramone said: Its really starting to wind me up this argument. These are professional footballers for christs sake. They are players that, if given the right tools and instructions, are more than capable of going out and winning games of football. Easily. Paul Cook set his team of League One footballers and beat the best team on the planet currently. Keith Hill and Mike Flynn set their team of League One and League Two players up to get a result against Tottenham. Leicester City were a team that had nearly been relegated the season before and Claudio went and won the Premier League with them. My point is, even if we had a bunch of wasters on the pitch, you can still make them feel 10 feet tall and go out on a pitch for 90 minutes and get a result. My issue here is Jos has consistently rubbished the players that are currently available, talking about players being out etc and this has knocked the last remaining bit of confidence out of them. Along with constantly changing the team so players cant form partnerships and a consistency in their performances. The players aren't good enough to get us in the play offs, granted. But blimey, the players have the capabilities to pick up up a few wins every now and then if given the right instructions to do so. How many of these players get into our team...? B.Biakowski B.Alnwick A.Webster A.Taylor L.Chambers M.Beevers C.Carter-Vickers R.Burke J.Knudsen J.Flannagan C.Connelly Derik C.Skuse K.Henry L.Hiam W.Buckley J.Spence D.Pratley M.Waghorn S.Ameobi M.Carayol A.Le Fondre Go on, you're telling me that ANY of these players that we've faced (ON OUR OWN PATCH) in the last 2 games get into our current side? None of them do in my opinion. And we managed ONE solitary point against them. The problem, in my opinion, is the mindset they're being sent on to the pitch with. Agree but pretty much the entire Ipswich defence would get into our side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 hour ago, FreshOwl said: I’m sorry but since when was Van Aken the shining light? Everyone highlights him as one of our main stars out injured, apart from the forest home game he hasn’t been very good and made a number of mistakes I wouldnt start van aken Pudil been playing well and deserves to keep his place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torres Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 1 minute ago, torryowl said: .you stop the other side scoring and score yourself you deserve to win the game .....it's not down to luck , we scored a shed load of late goals last season again that's nothing to do with luck . it's what good sides do .......you cant finish 4th with 81 points and only play well 3 or 4 times .you might not like how we played but just because we erred on the defensive side doesn't mean we were lucky or didn't play it well . There were countless games last season where i came out thinking - how the hell have we won that. Agree completely it is all about the result - if we somehow got 46 1-0 wins i would be the happiest man alive -EVER But if you fail to recognise that you are being a tad fortunate - it can often bite you in the backside - step forward this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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