You'd expect a striker to score from this situation

[Emilianenko]

1 hour ago, @owlstalk said:

Give it a rest mate

Your entire history of posts is about Nuhiu and it's getting tedious now - https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/profile/45701-emilianenko/?do=content&type=forums_topic_post&change_section=1

 

 

Stop exaggerating Neil.

You started this thread knowing full well it would drive traffic.

Another one who can't handle the truth.

Quote "we're a better team when Nuhiu plays"

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Emilianenko said:

Stop exaggerating Neil.

You started this thread knowing full well it would drive traffic.

Another one who can't handle the truth.

Quote "we're a better team when Nuhiu plays"

 

I don't need the traffic
I can handle truth
I like Nuhiu as much as the other strikers at our club
Your constant anti-nuhiu posts are just too much at the moment mate that's all

[upperwinngardensowl]

If you have ever played up front you know in that position with the ball coming down like that you look to connect well and hit the target.

he did both

[Emilianenko]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

 

I don't need the traffic
I can handle truth
I like Nuhiu as much as the other strikers at our club
Your constant anti-nuhiu posts are just too much at the moment mate that's all

What about the anti-Rhodes campaign by Mortimer and friends, just adding balance.

[@owlstalk]

Just now, Emilianenko said:

What about the anti-Rhodes campaign by Mortimer and friends, just adding balance.

Not seen that mate - will take a look

 

 

[Emilianenko]

Just now, @owlstalk said:

Not seen that mate - will take a look

 

 

Thanks

[DJMortimer]

2 hours ago, Emilianenko said:

Ah bless. Is it cos I've exposed your little plan.

 

Plan? I have a plan?  Makes a change from "agenda" I suppose. 

 

When I first used these minutes per goals statistics I was dismissed for being "selective" by at least three posters (two of whom are still extremely defensive about the subject). This was despite the fact that it was EVERY goal, in EVERY competition, by EVERY striker this season. I think I even posted a link to the site to show there was literally nothing else of note I could have included. By definition, it was the very opposite of that being charged. The only logical conclusion is that my accusers simply could not get over the discomfort and resorted to the emotional instead. And as cheerful as you like, you have actually started quoting them too (now that Rhodes has finally sneaked slightly ahead), but with cup games filtered out because you know how that changes the picture. Double standards, no? Anyway, this is all a bit too forensic and dull for other posters and I'd rather not have to keep getting out the microscope.

 

The main thrust is quite simple. A little over a year ago we were told that Rhodes would come here as the final piece in the jigsaw. He would give us a cutting edge we didn't have before. In the process, other strikers (especially Nuhiu) were deemed a near irrelevance and attempts to defend them were scoffed at. Hard work? Strength? Hold up play? Chasing defenders? Defensive headers? Assists? Who needs any of that when you can have a goalscorer? But the wheels have come off spectacularly. With goals not coming, the emphasis started to shift elsewhere with ever more desperate excuses. For a while we had the hilarious few weeks where Nuhiu was getting goals like no one else in the squad whilst our record signing was being praised for his unselfish supporting role. Oh, the irony.

 

You can compare the respective records however you like; this season or their entire Owls career; cup games included or omitted. There is little to choose between them in terms of just hitting the net. And Nuhiu is just the striker we would always expect to be bottom of such measures. Comparisons with other teammates are much worse. There's no getting away from it. The ONLY thing he was supposed to bring, he has not. But the statistical argument is not my territory; it's the one that was chosen for me by Rhodes' advocates. In fact, I've been decrying the idea that strikers can effectively judged just like this as unsophisticated for years. Forwards, like defenders, are part of a unit. It matters who puts the ball away as much as it matters who makes the tackle or clearance at the other end. When you widen the context to include these other factors, Rhodes is left trailing in the distance. As of the last few months, I would actually rate him as at least sixth choice out of our seven strikers based on recent and historical performances. And this is no vendetta on my part. I imagine a significant percentage would share that view.

 

My only concern is that we pick the best players available. I have no problem with rotation and tactical adjustments as the manager sees fit. The only bias I have towards Nuhiu is against the outrageous prejudice against him (one poster in particular flat out lies about him). No one thinks he's indispensable. You don't care for him? I genuinely don't have an issue with that. We all see things differently and it would be offensive to suggest there was only one objective truth about something as complex as football. But it seems whatever standards are applied to him are suspended or amended for Rhodes. At the moment, the only defence left is becoming increasingly ancient history. But should he resolve whatever his issues are and starts banging goals in and contributing to a successful team, do you really believe I'd still be suggesting he should be in the stands?

 

Ah, nuts. I've done it again haven't I?

 

I must stop this or I might need to buy a jacket with really long arms and some rubber wallpaper.

 

 

[Emilianenko]

57 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Plan? I have a plan?  Makes a change from "agenda" I suppose. 

 

When I first used these minutes per goals statistics I was dismissed for being "selective" by at least three posters (two of whom are still extremely defensive about the subject). This was despite the fact that it was EVERY goal, in EVERY competition, by EVERY striker this season. I think I even posted a link to the site to show there was literally nothing else of note I could have included. By definition, it was the very opposite of that being charged. The only logical conclusion is that my accusers simply could not get over the discomfort and resorted to the emotional instead. And as cheerful as you like, you have actually started quoting them too (now that Rhodes has finally sneaked slightly ahead), but with cup games filtered out because you know how that changes the picture. Double standards, no? Anyway, this is all a bit too forensic and dull for other posters and I'd rather not have to keep getting out the microscope.

 

The main thrust is quite simple. A little over a year ago we were told that Rhodes would come here as the final piece in the jigsaw. He would give us a cutting edge we didn't have before. In the process, other strikers (especially Nuhiu) were deemed a near irrelevance and attempts to defend them were scoffed at. Hard work? Strength? Hold up play? Chasing defenders? Defensive headers? Assists? Who needs any of that when you can have a goalscorer? But the wheels have come off spectacularly. With goals not coming, the emphasis started to shift elsewhere with ever more desperate excuses. For a while we had the hilarious few weeks where Nuhiu was getting goals like no one else in the squad whilst our record signing was being praised for his unselfish supporting role. Oh, the irony.

 

You can compare the respective records however you like; this season or their entire Owls career; cup games included or omitted. There is little to choose between them in terms of just hitting the net. And Nuhiu is just the striker we would always expect to be bottom of such measures. Comparisons with other teammates are much worse. There's no getting away from it. The ONLY thing he was supposed to bring, he has not. But the statistical argument is not my territory; it's the one that was chosen for me by Rhodes' advocates. In fact, I've been decrying the idea that strikers can effectively judged just like this as unsophisticated for years. Forwards, like defenders, are part of a unit. It matters who puts the ball away as much as it matters who makes the tackle or clearance at the other end. When you widen the context to include these other factors, Rhodes is left trailing in the distance. As of the last few months, I would actually rate him as at least sixth choice out of our seven strikers based on recent and historical performances. And this is no vendetta on my part. I imagine a significant percentage would share that view.

 

My only concern is that we pick the best players available. I have no problem with rotation and tactical adjustments as the manager sees fit. The only bias I have towards Nuhiu is against the outrageous prejudice against him (one poster in particular flat out lies about him). No one thinks he's indispensable. You don't care for him? I genuinely don't have an issue with that. We all see things differently and it would be offensive to suggest there was only one objective truth about something as complex as football. But it seems whatever standards are applied to him are suspended or amended for Rhodes. At the moment, the only defence left is becoming increasingly ancient history. But should he resolve whatever his issues are and starts banging goals in and contributing to a successful team, do you really believe I'd still be suggesting he should be in the stands?

 

Ah, nuts. I've done it again haven't I?

 

I must stop this or I might need to buy a jacket with really long arms and some rubber wallpaper.

 

 

But when Nuhiu starts we lose

[DJMortimer]

57 minutes ago, Emilianenko said:

But when Nuhiu starts we lose

I thought I'd investigate this further too. Rhodes has made a total of 31 starts in his Wednesday career. That's ALL games in ALL competitions. Therefore, by definition, this cannot be "selective" as I haven't 'selected' anything. You set the criteria for games started so I've gone with that. And I agree it's much more indicative than a cameo as substitute. By way of comparison for Nuhiu, I've gone back from the present day for his last 31 starts, again in ALL competitions. This should really favour your case as he's been starting regularly recently in a thoroughly hapless team. The results are interesting...

[DJMortimer]

Just now, DJMortimer said:

I thought I'd investigate this further too. Rhodes has made a total of 31 starts in his Wednesday career. That's ALL games in ALL competitions. Therefore, by definition, this cannot be "selective" as I haven't 'selected' anything. You set the criteria for games started so I've gone with that. And I agree it's much more indicative than a cameo as substitute. By way of comparison for Nuhiu, I've gone back from the present day for his last 31 starts, again in ALL competitions. This should really favour your case as he's been starting regularly recently in a thoroughly hapless team. The results are interesting...

 

 

                W   D    L     F    A

Rhodes   12   7   12   39   36

Nuhiu      11   9   11   44   44

 

Just one more category of your choosing where the claimed difference does not obviously manifest itself, especially in goals scored - the Rhodes speciaility apparently. 

[Emilianenko]

17 minutes ago, DJMortimer said:

 

                W   D    L     F    A

Rhodes   12   7   12   39   36

Nuhiu      11   9   11   44   44

 

Just one more category of your choosing where the claimed difference does not obviously manifest itself, especially in goals scored - the Rhodes speciaility apparently. 

Selective use of data again I see.

Padding Nuhius record with games against the likes of Carlisle and Reading reserves.

While Rhodes has wins against the better teams like Derby and Villa.

You are fooling nobody.

Thats why I set the criteria of League games started, it's far more balanced.

[DJMortimer]

34 minutes ago, Emilianenko said:

Selective use of data again I see.

Change the record. You're filtering it because you know it favours Rhodes to do so. I'm not filtering it in any way. Simple really. 

 

Padding Nuhius record with games against the likes of Carlisle and Reading reserves.

And Swansea. Whilst of course we fielded our first eleven each time. Plus; how is a weakened Reading team any different from the Bolton one we met in the EFL Cup? That's the game in which Rhodes got 22% of his goals for us. Remove that from consideration and his pathetic record gets considerably worse. In a little over a full year, we've got someone trumpeting those 7 league goals. 

 

While Rhodes has wins against the better teams like Derby and Villa.

Does he really? That inference is so astonishing as to be beyond my ability to ridicule it. 'He' also has a hammering against Burton and failed to impact disappointing results as substitute against all of the bottom 7 and even Carlisle. Swings and roundabouts.

 

You are fooling nobody.

Look around. No one really cares... either way. But the weight of opinion on who most posters want playing speaks for itself, even more so after Tuesday.

 

Thats why I set the criteria of League games started, it's far more balanced.

Or... nearly 80% of Nuhiu's starts in the Championship over the last two years have been during our run of 2 wins in 20 attempts regardless of who we picked. And I know he's had a half decent run in the cups where Rhodes has not featured much, so we'll just lift the rug and kick them out of the way.

         Limiting it to scoring goals in the league also ignores other factors like assists. According to whoscored.com, Rhodes has 2 in his entire time here. Nuhiu has equalled that in the last 5 weeks. And how many times lately have we heard people comment on Rhodes' performance with something like "forgot he was out there" or "offered nothing"?

 

But whilst people yawn away at these semantic arguments to and fro, you are (perhaps deliberately) distracting everyone from the main issue. The competition for Rhodes has been whittled down to the guys who started the season as our 6th and 7th options up front. And he STILL isn't making a good case to start. And you are bigging this guy and his 7 goals (cup games don't count remember) in 13 months up as our saviour? If Joao scores on Saturday, he'll have matched that output in 11 weeks.

 

 

 

[shandypants]

On 07/03/2018 at 12:57, @owlstalk said:

Sorry Neil but that’s bo77oxcks. Nuhiu, like any player with a similar chance, could only focus on getting a good connection given the way the ball found its way into the box, how the ball was dropping and Nuhiu’s relative position to the ball when then chance presented itself. 

 

David Hirst, the greatest forward (if not player) that I have seen play for the Owls, hit the fastest shot ever (at that point in time) from a very similar chance and that shot hit the cross bar. Why? Well we can hazard a good guess that Hirst was focussing on getting a good connection on the ball - the very thing that we can hazard a good guess that Nuhiu was doing.