You'd expect a striker to score from this situation

[gypsyowl]

19 minutes ago, Emilianenko said:

 

Goals per minute in Championship this season

 

Lucas Joao 7 goals at a rate of a goal every 163 minutes

Gary Hooper 10 goals at a rate of a goal every 193 minutes

Jordan Rhodes 4 goals at a rate of a goal every 355 minutes

Atdhe Nuhiu 2 goals at a rate of a goal every 365 minutes

 

Your argument doesn't stand up.

 goals this calendar year

 

Nuhiu 4

rhodes 0

 

assits

 

Nuhiu 3 

 

rhodes 0

 

decent games

 

Nuhiu several 

 

Rhodes 0

 

 

 

 

[Costello 77]

If it was Hirsty the evil Ipswich defence would have been picking the ball out of the net....... along with the keeper's head.

 

FFS.

[Walt]

Rhodes circa £10 million. A goal every 5.92 hours

Nuhiu £0. A goal every 6.08 hours.

 

£10 million doesn't get you much these days does it?

[Emilianenko]

20 minutes ago, gypsyowl said:

 goals this calendar year

 

Nuhiu 4

rhodes 0

 

assits

 

Nuhiu 3 

 

rhodes 0

 

decent games

 

Nuhiu several 

 

Rhodes 0

 

 

 

 

League wins in games started by Nuhiu in the last 2 years 0

[gypsyowl]

Just now, Emilianenko said:

League wins in games started by Nuhiu in the last 2 years 0

 

Well to say he’s only had starts this season that’s not very fair 

 

rhodes is a disgrace, end of Fred 

[Emilianenko]

6 minutes ago, gypsyowl said:

 

Well to say he’s only had starts this season that’s not very fair 

 

rhodes is a disgrace, end of Fred 

That's not true though is it?

 

[gypsyowl]

7 minutes ago, Emilianenko said:

That's not true though is it?

 

 

As a footballer he is, the worst signing we’ve made in terms of what we paid & got in return 

 

as soon as he’s gone the better 

[Emilianenko]

1 minute ago, gypsyowl said:

 

As a footballer he is, the worst signing we’ve made in terms of what we paid & got in return 

 

as soon as he’s gone the better 

I agree with you, we can:t keep playing Atty he's rubbish.

[DJMortimer]

46 minutes ago, Emilianenko said:

 

Goals per minute in Championship this season

 

Lucas Joao 7 goals at a rate of a goal every 163 minutes

Gary Hooper 10 goals at a rate of a goal every 193 minutes

Jordan Rhodes 4 goals at a rate of a goal every 355 minutes

Atdhe Nuhiu 2 goals at a rate of a goal every 365 minutes

 

Your argument doesn't stand up.

 

Forever bleating about statistics you don't like being "selective" and then brazenly filtering them like this because you know it favours the impression you want to give. But even after that effort, it still fails to demonstrate the vast gulf that is supposed to exist between Rhodes and Nuhiu. It's hilarious you triumphantly post this as if it comprehensively proves any kind of significant difference. Even allowing you this cheating and restricting the criteria to league games, in their entire Wednesday careers, our record signing needs 7 minutes less per goal than the 'big lump'. SEVEN MINUTES ! If cup games were accommodated as well, Nuhiu would actually have the lead. So how is one our saviour in waiting whilst the other is a 'clown' when their average league records are almost identical here?

 

Check out the BBC site and you will see that not only is Rhodes trailing in minutes per goal in all competitions, he's well behind on shooting accuracy and assists as well. He has been here for 31+20 appearances - a full season with a few cup games thrown in, and he has mustered 9 goals. Is that really what we were led to expect? Is it really good enough? By way of comparison, in teams that were much poorer (until the last few months at least), Nuhiu scored 8 in 29+13 in his debut season, then followed that with 11 from 33+14 the following year. Again, hardly any difference at all. For fear of the predictable label, I am well aware that his scoring record was grim after that for a good while. And all of this is ignoring the exploits of Hooper and Forestieri, and to a lesser extent Joao and Fletcher. If you halve all of Rhodes' numbers you near enough have Marco Matias' career totals with us. Even Kieran Lee has scored 8 in his last 38+5 games.

 

Although I have quoted these kinds of numbers myself a good deal, I have acknowledged many times that they are of limited value as they do not account for the intangibles and come with no context whatsoever. The main reason I use them is to highlight how wrong Rhodes' supporters have been so far. This is supposedly Rhodes' realm where his class would show and all would be justified. Yet the difference is negligible at best. Over and over we were lectured about how he "guaranteed goals". Now that has been exposed as a memory from 27 months ago and beyond, the goalposts are forever moving with an astonishing list of excuses that I think is unprecedented at our club in my memory. We even had him being lauded for the unrewarded hard work that fans don't appreciate whilst his rival was 'just' scoring and assisting goals. A quite breathtaking and humiliating about face on such confident and derisive predictions.

 

Apart from the statistics and their limitations, in just about every conceivable category you can imagine, Nuhiu has shown more than his far more illustrious teammate since they were at the club together, despite a large disparity in respective opportunities. About the only thing Rhodes has the edge in is pace; hardly much of a boast against such a huge unit and the result of a sprint race might be surprisingly close anyway. But some seem stuck in a long gone era; seeing a centre forward who is 6'6" and judging him as a failure if he doesn't inspire recollections of Lee Chapman by roughing defenders up, winning endless headers and getting 15-20 goals. Judging a striker solely by that number and without any consideration for anything else they might do is what I'd expect from kids on the playground (but is surprisingly common even amongst well paid pundits who preach selfishness and headline hunting).

 

In the refusal to accept what 51 largely ineffectual appearances have been telling us repeatedly, some have even resorted to downright lies (this paragraph is not aimed at you I should point out - as much of your contribution is at least factual, if prejudiced in my view). So Nuhiu scored the "majority" of his goals against "vastly inferior opponents in cup competitions". It actually turns out he's only scored 3 against lower division teams so then even the bunch immediately below us in the division (Reading, who will go above us if they win their game in hand) were painfully shoehorned into that category (22% of Rhodes career goals for us came against Bolton in the league cup and if Reading are "vastly inferior" then they must be too as they are on the same points). Of course Nuhiu also scored a couple in such circumstances against Premier League teams - yes, I know one was a penalty (which also accounts for another 11% of Rhodes' total output). Nuhiu also "doesn't get enough assists" apparently. Well, despite starting only 11 games all season, he has more of them than EVERYBODY else in the squad except Adam Reach. And in classic, not to mention petulant, foaming at the mouth straw man embarrassment, those of us merely pointing out that Nuhiu is the 2nd best option we have available up front right now were ridiculed for believing that he should be playing for Barcelona. Grow up man, you're better than that... aren't you?

 

The large majority now evidently rate Nuhiu as better than Rhodes on the evidence of the last year and a bit (obviously over the course of their careers the balance swings very much the other way, but that's of no use to us now). Like it or lump it. But the increasing desperation to defend him only makes some of you look like lovestruck teenagers denying what everyone else thinks is obvious. Until Rhodes proves otherwise, he is rightly considered the worst option we currently have available to play. And he's done almost nothing in his 51 appearances so far to suggest that change is coming any time soon.

 

No one (that's NO ONE) thinks Nuhiu is a superstar player with the potential to single-handedly power us to promotion. His limitations are obvious and we are reminded of them constantly. When everyone is fit he's no better than our 4th best striker. If Fletcher and Rhodes return to past form then he goes down to 6th. Should Hirst or Preston get a chance and impress he could go lower still. But what use is any of that to us at the moment? If our record signing suddenly recaptures past glories, then great. I'd have no problem with him being a fixture if it increases the team's chances of success. And that's all we're interested in. If there are external factors that have been debilitating to him then it's in all our best interest that these are resolved. Despite caricatures to try and cheaply reduce the validity of others, there is no vendetta. But until there is evidence of him doing the job well we have to go with the combination that gives us the best chance of getting goals. Rhodes has been involved in 2 in his last 17 appearances - one of those a penalty (before that he scored in 2 consecutive games, then it was 2 in 25). In that same period, Joao has scored 6, Nuhiu has scored 4 and assisted 3. Who gives a toss where the dude is from, what his record three years ago is, how big his beard is, what his name is? Just pick the players who are fit and performing.

 

And yes, I know that statistic about us not winning league games Nuhiu starts in the last 2 years will keep appearing. And I'll repeat the 'coincidence' that immediately before that period we won 9 and lost 1 of the previous such 14 games. So what does either period prove? That two years ago he had better players around him than he does now? Not really a revelation is it? Also, the poor bloke has started a grand total of 9 of our 82 league games in the last two seasons; almost all of them in the midst of a run of 2 wins in 20 attempts no matter who was playing. Does one mediocre squad player really have that degree of influence either way, especially when he is far from the best or worst we have and when there is so much else going wrong right now? "Selective"? Heaven forbid.

 

Yes, this has been something I've posted about a lot lately. So I thought I'd post one long rant and get it over with. Hopefully (for everybody) I can back off a bit now. I would hope that some of those who post just as often about it would do the same as it is all getting rather boring isn't it?

 

Sorry.

 

 

[torryowl]

Rhodes doesn't miss many chances but then he wouldn't as he never seems to get any .....you see him come onto the pitch and the next time you notice him is when they hold the number 7 up and he's  walking off ......I didn't see much of him at hudders & Blackburn but his record was outstanding and out &out goalscorers don't usually lose the knack but for some reason he certainly as here. 

[McRightSide]

5 hours ago, torryowl said:

Rhodes doesn't miss many chances but then he wouldn't as he never seems to get any .....you see him come onto the pitch and the next time you notice him is when they hold the number 7 up and he's  walking off ......I didn't see much of him at hudders & Blackburn but his record was outstanding and out &out goalscorers don't usually lose the knack but for some reason he certainly as here. 

 

Myth.

 

Missed loads of sitters.

[Guest Bulgaria]

6 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

Forever bleating about statistics you don't like being "selective" and then brazenly filtering them like this because you know it favours the impression you want to give. But even after that effort, it still fails to demonstrate the vast gulf that is supposed to exist between Rhodes and Nuhiu. It's hilarious you triumphantly post this as if it comprehensively proves any kind of significant difference. Even allowing you this cheating and restricting the criteria to league games, in their entire Wednesday careers, our record signing needs 7 minutes less per goal than the 'big lump'. SEVEN MINUTES ! If cup games were accommodated as well, Nuhiu would actually have the lead. So how is one our saviour in waiting whilst the other is a 'clown' when their average league records are almost identical here?

 

Check out the BBC site and you will see that not only is Rhodes trailing in minutes per goal in all competitions, he's well behind on shooting accuracy and assists as well. He has been here for 31+20 appearances - a full season with a few cup games thrown in, and he has mustered 9 goals. Is that really what we were led to expect? Is it really good enough? By way of comparison, in teams that were much poorer (until the last few months at least), Nuhiu scored 8 in 29+13 in his debut season, then followed that with 11 from 33+14 the following year. Again, hardly any difference at all. For fear of the predictable label, I am well aware that his scoring record was grim after that for a good while. And all of this is ignoring the exploits of Hooper and Forestieri, and to a lesser extent Joao and Fletcher. If you halve all of Rhodes' numbers you near enough have Marco Matias' career totals with us. Even Kieran Lee has scored 8 in his last 38+5 games.

 

Although I have quoted these kinds of numbers myself a good deal, I have acknowledged many times that they are of limited value as they do not account for the intangibles and come with no context whatsoever. The main reason I use them is to highlight how wrong Rhodes' supporters have been so far. This is supposedly Rhodes' realm where his class would show and all would be justified. Yet the difference is negligible at best. Over and over we were lectured about how he "guaranteed goals". Now that has been exposed as a memory from 27 months ago and beyond, the goalposts are forever moving with an astonishing list of excuses that I think is unprecedented at our club in my memory. We even had him being lauded for the unrewarded hard work that fans don't appreciate whilst his rival was 'just' scoring and assisting goals. A quite breathtaking and humiliating about face on such confident and derisive predictions.

 

Apart from the statistics and their limitations, in just about every conceivable category you can imagine, Nuhiu has shown more than his far more illustrious teammate since they were at the club together, despite a large disparity in respective opportunities. About the only thing Rhodes has the edge in is pace; hardly much of a boast against such a huge unit and the result of a sprint race might be surprisingly close anyway. But some seem stuck in a long gone era; seeing a centre forward who is 6'6" and judging him as a failure if he doesn't inspire recollections of Lee Chapman by roughing defenders up, winning endless headers and getting 15-20 goals. Judging a striker solely by that number and without any consideration for anything else they might do is what I'd expect from kids on the playground (but is surprisingly common even amongst well paid pundits who preach selfishness and headline hunting).

 

In the refusal to accept what 51 largely ineffectual appearances have been telling us repeatedly, some have even resorted to downright lies (this paragraph is not aimed at you I should point out - as much of your contribution is at least factual, if prejudiced in my view). So Nuhiu scored the "majority" of his goals against "vastly inferior opponents in cup competitions". It actually turns out he's only scored 3 against lower division teams so then even the bunch immediately below us in the division (Reading, who will go above us if they win their game in hand) were painfully shoehorned into that category (22% of Rhodes career goals for us came against Bolton in the league cup and if Reading are "vastly inferior" then they must be too as they are on the same points). Of course Nuhiu also scored a couple in such circumstances against Premier League teams - yes, I know one was a penalty (which also accounts for another 11% of Rhodes' total output). Nuhiu also "doesn't get enough assists" apparently. Well, despite starting only 11 games all season, he has more of them than EVERYBODY else in the squad except Adam Reach. And in classic, not to mention petulant, foaming at the mouth straw man embarrassment, those of us merely pointing out that Nuhiu is the 2nd best option we have available up front right now were ridiculed for believing that he should be playing for Barcelona. Grow up man, you're better than that... aren't you?

 

The large majority now evidently rate Nuhiu as better than Rhodes on the evidence of the last year and a bit (obviously over the course of their careers the balance swings very much the other way, but that's of no use to us now). Like it or lump it. But the increasing desperation to defend him only makes some of you look like lovestruck teenagers denying what everyone else thinks is obvious. Until Rhodes proves otherwise, he is rightly considered the worst option we currently have available to play. And he's done almost nothing in his 51 appearances so far to suggest that change is coming any time soon.

 

No one (that's NO ONE) thinks Nuhiu is a superstar player with the potential to single-handedly power us to promotion. His limitations are obvious and we are reminded of them constantly. When everyone is fit he's no better than our 4th best striker. If Fletcher and Rhodes return to past form then he goes down to 6th. Should Hirst or Preston get a chance and impress he could go lower still. But what use is any of that to us at the moment? If our record signing suddenly recaptures past glories, then great. I'd have no problem with him being a fixture if it increases the team's chances of success. And that's all we're interested in. If there are external factors that have been debilitating to him then it's in all our best interest that these are resolved. Despite caricatures to try and cheaply reduce the validity of others, there is no vendetta. But until there is evidence of him doing the job well we have to go with the combination that gives us the best chance of getting goals. Rhodes has been involved in 2 in his last 17 appearances - one of those a penalty (before that he scored in 2 consecutive games, then it was 2 in 25). In that same period, Joao has scored 6, Nuhiu has scored 4 and assisted 3. Who gives a toss where the dude is from, what his record three years ago is, how big his beard is, what his name is? Just pick the players who are fit and performing.

 

And yes, I know that statistic about us not winning league games Nuhiu starts in the last 2 years will keep appearing. And I'll repeat the 'coincidence' that immediately before that period we won 9 and lost 1 of the previous such 14 games. So what does either period prove? That two years ago he had better players around him than he does now? Not really a revelation is it? Also, the poor bloke has started a grand total of 9 of our 82 league games in the last two seasons; almost all of them in the midst of a run of 2 wins in 20 attempts no matter who was playing. Does one mediocre squad player really have that degree of influence either way, especially when he is far from the best or worst we have and when there is so much else going wrong right now? "Selective"? Heaven forbid.

 

Yes, this has been something I've posted about a lot lately. So I thought I'd post one long rant and get it over with. Hopefully (for everybody) I can back off a bit now. I would hope that some of those who post just as often about it would do the same as it is all getting rather boring isn't it?

 

Sorry.

 

 

What an excellent, well thought out post.

 

Good read that.

[Emilianenko]

Put your dummy back in .

Whats up don't you like the FACTS that don't fit your agenda?

 

[Howards back]

8 hours ago, gypsyowl said:

 

As a footballer he is, the worst signing we’ve made in terms of what we paid & got in return 

 

as soon as he’s gone the better 

He’s here to the end of his contract. High wages that no one else will pay. 

[Guest Kagoshimaowl]

This should have scored stuff is nonsense.  It was an amazing strike that their keeper knew nothing about.  Nuhiu did nothing wrong there, just unfortunate. It’s weird cos a scuffed shot would probably have bobbled in. Fine lines!

[WalthamOwl]

If Rhodes had missed that people on here would be crucifying him. Was a terrible miss. 

[DJMortimer]

2 hours ago, Emilianenko said:

Put your dummy back in .

Whats up don't you like the FACTS that don't fit your agenda?

 

 

No, but I do have a problem with hypocrites and people mindlessly parroting the same cliches in place of wisdom.

[Emilianenko]

6 hours ago, DJMortimer said:

 

No, but I do have a problem with hypocrites and people mindlessly parroting the same cliches in place of wisdom.

Ah bless. Is it cos I've exposed your little plan.

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Emilianenko said:

Ah bless. Is it cos I've exposed your little plan.

Give it a rest mate

Your entire history of posts is about Nuhiu and it's getting tedious now - https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/profile/45701-emilianenko/?do=content&type=forums_topic_post&change_section=1

 

 

[Hookowl]

10 hours ago, Emilianenko said:

Put your dummy back in .

Whats up don't you like the FACTS that don't fit your agenda?

 

 

Not got any axe to grind but after reading all posts this strikes me as deserving of the words "pot", "kettle", "black".