This press conference has got me very angry

[Guest]

12 hours ago, gurujuan said:

Or the players he wanted It’s all ifs and buts really, but it’s what we do now that counts

 

So he couldn't get the players he wanted due to our transfer committee choosing players rather than him and yet he had the opportunity to go to Swansea twice before he did but chose to stick it out in the division below with a regime that was restricting his ability to work properly?

[gurujuan]

3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

So he couldn't get the players he wanted due to our transfer committee choosing players rather than him and yet he had the opportunity to go to Swansea twice before he did but chose to stick it out in the division below with a regime that was restricting his ability to work properly?

Exactly, he just got on with it

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, dnhc said:

what jos needs to do, is putting all carlos' failings correct, and he's on with that now, but when it takes 12/18 months to take something apart we can hardy expect it to be rebuilt in 2 months.

12-18 months?

So in that respect if we don't have a decent season next season it is still down to Carlos?

We were a bottom half side with Stevie May as our marquee recent signing when Carlos took over, it didn't take him that long to make us into a top 6 side from scratch.

Yes he has left a mess behind but not one which we should keep accounting for failure for a season and a half.

[Guest Xxxxxxxxcxcc]

17 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

The long and the short of it is, there are a whole myriad of reasons we find ourselves where we are, some of them undoubtably down to Carlos My issue is the thread, we can carry on pointing fingers, and picking things apart, but better to look ahead 

As others have said, we are not going to solve these problems overnight If Jos is not happy with the fitness levels, there’s not an awful lot he can do about it now, that can come later Our first priority needs to be avoiding the drop, so getting wins under our belt is a must, starting on Saturday

Agreed

[dorian gray]

8 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

12-18 months?

So in that respect if we don't have a decent season next season it is still down to Carlos?

We were a bottom half side with Stevie May as our marquee recent signing when Carlos took over, it didn't take him that long to make us into a top 6 side from scratch.

Yes he has left a mess behind but not one which we should keep accounting for failure for a season and a half.

we were a bottom half side when carlos took over? 

really, we were a mid table side who'd ended the season by bloodying afcb and watford's noses for them on their own turf. gray had built that out of next to **** all, certainly not the king's ransom carvalhal was to get.

my relation to the 'season and a half' was the time it took for things to go from 'he's the best manager we've ever had' to the situation we had on our hands around a month ago, where we were due with carlos at the lane for a hiding. carvalhal couldn't have done what jos did that night.

[oldishowl]

25 minutes ago, gurujuan said:

The long and the short of it is, there are a whole myriad of reasons we find ourselves where we are, some of them undoubtably down to Carlos My issue is the thread, we can carry on pointing fingers, and picking things apart, but better to look ahead 

As others have said, we are not going to solve these problems overnight If Jos is not happy with the fitness levels, there’s not an awful lot he can do about it now, that can come later Our first priority needs to be avoiding the drop, so getting wins under our belt is a must, starting on Saturday

 

So stop looking backwards and making excuses for the manager who has gone and left a mess.

 

Accept that Jos has “ got on with it” very well given the paucity of resources. He answered one question truthfully and you accuse  him of not getting on with it.

 

Carlos was a good coach on the pitch but apparently very poor off it. 

Will Jos be as good a coach for us. My view is that he will sort us out off the pitch, eventually produce a fit , organised squad but it is too early to be confident he will deliver results 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, dnhc said:

we were a bottom half side when carlos took over? 

really, we were a mid table side who'd ended the season by bloodying afcb and watford's noses for them on their own turf. gray had built that out of next to **** all, certainly not the king's ransom carvalhal was to get.

my relation to the 'season and a half' was the time it took for things to go from 'he's the best manager we've ever had' to the situation we had on our hands around a month ago, where we were due with carlos at the lane for a hiding. carvalhal couldn't have done what jos did that night.

 

A couple of good results at the end of the season didn't make us a great side. We finished 13th that season - yes creditable enough for what Gray had to work with but we were still a bottom half side as we had been for the 3 seasons since promotion.

Yes there was significant investment in the team that summer but not more than many teams in the top half of the division and we were not fancied by most for a top 6 challenge.

 

You said it will take 12-18 months for the mess he has left to be turned around. That is in effect giving the new manager a free pass for next season as he is still sorting out Carlos's mess.

 

Football doesn't work like that anymore, I don't think the owner will be expecting it to take that long to turn around. He has done his survey and has kept prices at the level that implies investment will continue with the aim of challenging for promotion.

We haven't lost many of the players that the apparently inept previous manager led to 2 top 6 finishes. Yes a few of them are past their best and need replacing but that should be possible and with a proper pre-season behind them better will be expected next season.

 

[Owlinmad]

People see and read what they want to see and read.

 

Human nature.

[@owlstalk]

1 minute ago, Owlinmad said:

People see and read what they want to see and read.

 

Human nature.

Very true

[dorian gray]

27 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

A couple of good results at the end of the season didn't make us a great side. We finished 13th that season - yes creditable enough for what Gray had to work with but we were still a bottom half side as we had been for the 3 seasons since promotion.

Yes there was significant investment in the team that summer but not more than many teams in the top half of the division and we were not fancied by most for a top 6 challenge.

 

You said it will take 12-18 months for the mess he has left to be turned around. That is in effect giving the new manager a free pass for next season as he is still sorting out Carlos's mess.

 

Football doesn't work like that anymore, I don't think the owner will be expecting it to take that long to turn around. He has done his survey and has kept prices at the level that implies investment will continue with the aim of challenging for promotion.

We haven't lost many of the players that the apparently inept previous manager led to 2 top 6 finishes. Yes a few of them are past their best and need replacing but that should be possible and with a proper pre-season behind them better will be expected next season.

 

i didn't say it would take 12-18 months, i said it had taken 12 -18 months TO MAKE THE MESS, we could hardly expect jos to clear it up in 2 months.

as for the couple of good results at the end of the season, no we weren't a great side, but was carlos' side a great one after that amount of money spent?. 

gray needed forwards, carlos rebuilt the whole lot, big difference in capital needed, we'll never know what gray would have achieved with £20/25m to spend on attacking play.

[dorian gray]

38 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

A couple of good results at the end of the season didn't make us a great side. We finished 13th that season - yes creditable enough for what Gray had to work with but we were still a bottom half side as we had been for the 3 seasons since promotion.

Yes there was significant investment in the team that summer but not more than many teams in the top half of the division and we were not fancied by most for a top 6 challenge.

 

You said it will take 12-18 months for the mess he has left to be turned around. That is in effect giving the new manager a free pass for next season as he is still sorting out Carlos's mess.

 

Football doesn't work like that anymore, I don't think the owner will be expecting it to take that long to turn around. He has done his survey and has kept prices at the level that implies investment will continue with the aim of challenging for promotion.

We haven't lost many of the players that the apparently inept previous manager led to 2 top 6 finishes. Yes a few of them are past their best and need replacing but that should be possible and with a proper pre-season behind them better will be expected next season.

 

we may have to sell this closed season, i don't know, none of us do.

i hope we don't, and jos can get a full pre season into them, as we have some good players.

i think without doubt he may want to strengthen the defence (and i'm not sure what finance is available for that), time and funding will tell.

we have to survive firstly this season, then plan and rebuild next, i expect that the quality in our squad, plus the players jos has discovered in our system that weren't worthy a look in may hold a few surprises for us next term.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, dnhc said:

i didn't say it would take 12-18 months, i said it had taken 12 -18 months TO MAKE THE MESS, we could hardly expect jos to clear it up in 2 months.

as for the couple of good results at the end of the season, no we weren't a great side, but was carlos' side a great one after that amount of money spent?. 

gray needed forwards, carlos rebuilt the whole lot, big difference in capital needed, we'll never know what gray would have achieved with £20/25m to spend on attacking play.

 

No we won't know what Stuart Gray would have been capable of but he hasn't fancied or been afforded the opportunity to take on a managerial position since, if he was a potential top 6 Championship manager then maybe there would have been an opportunity for him to take in the past couple of years.

 

Yes, I misread your post regarding the 12-18 months to turn things around, apologies for that. 

If the mess he has inherited was 12-18 months in the making though, it could be argued that we did remarkably well to finish 4th with such a developing mess and with a summer to put things right there should be no reason not to expect an improvement on 4th if the previous manager achieved that despite getting so many things wrong?

[gurujuan]

54 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

 

So stop looking backwards and making excuses for the manager who has gone and left a mess.

 

Accept that Jos has “ got on with it” very well given the paucity of resources. He answered one question truthfully and you accuse  him of not getting on with it.

 

Carlos was a good coach on the pitch but apparently very poor off it. 

Will Jos be as good a coach for us. My view is that he will sort us out off the pitch, eventually produce a fit , organised squad but it is too early to be confident he will deliver results 

As I mentioned, my response was initially to this thread It’s all about looking back, and the blame game Plenty of people are responsible for where we are now, why do we need to have a thread that targets just the previous manager

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, dnhc said:

we may have to sell this closed season, i don't know, none of us do.

i hope we don't, and jos can get a full pre season into them, as we have some good players.

i think without doubt he may want to strengthen the defence (and i'm not sure what finance is available for that), time and funding will tell.

we have to survive firstly this season, then plan and rebuild next, i expect that the quality in our squad, plus the players jos has discovered in our system that weren't worthy a look in may hold a few surprises for us next term.

 

No doubt in that. It should have been addressed with a couple of additions as a priority after Wembley and this season time has caught up with a couple of them and Venancio is no better than Sasso.

Given that the club know what current financial situation they are in, having surveyed supporters on the investment approach they wish to take forward, announcing that supporters overwhelming want to see continued investment and then releasing season ticket prices in accordance with that strategy then there should be some funding made available. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Guest

[dorian gray]

1 minute ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

No we won't know what Stuart Gray would have been capable of but he hasn't fancied or been afforded the opportunity to take on a managerial position since, if he was a potential top 6 Championship manager then maybe there would have been an opportunity for him to take in the past couple of years.

 

Yes, I misread your post regarding the 12-18 months to turn things around, apologies for that. 

If the mess he has inherited was 12-18 months in the making though, it could be argued that we did remarkably well to finish 4th with such a developing mess and with a summer to put things right there should be no reason not to expect an improvement on 4th if the previous manager achieved that despite getting so many things wrong?

as someone on here keeps pointing out championship sides are spending vast fortunes now, and 12 months from now a struggling side are up at the top, so judging the competition of 2 years ago with what we will face next year is impossible, and our players are 2 years older also. but i fully expect with little investment that next season's results will be better than this one's.

as for gray as a manager, i remember when the first name mentioned for half the premier and all the championship was curbishley, what happened there, just because one man has a flash in the pan success, far from makes him one in his next club. carlos for instance is doing exceptionally well at swansea, but he has a fit side, something he had here in the first season.

the second season cries of 'why aren't we playing last season's high tempo pressing game?' appears to have been solved.

[dorian gray]

3 minutes ago, hirstyboywonder said:

 

No doubt in that. It should have been addressed with a couple of additions as a priority after Wembley and this season time has caught up with a couple of them and Venancio is no better than Sasso.

Given that the club know what current financial situation they are in, having surveyed supporters on the investment approach they wish to take forward, announcing that supporters overwhelming want to see continued investment and then releasing season ticket prices in accordance with that strategy then there should be some funding made available. 

let us hope so.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, dnhc said:

as someone on here keeps pointing out championship sides are spending vast fortunes now, and 12 months from now a struggling side are up at the top, so judging the competition of 2 years ago with what we will face next year is impossible, and our players are 2 years older also. but i fully expect with little investment that next season's results will be better than this one's.

as for gray as a manager, i remember when the first name mentioned for half the premier and all the championship was curbishley, what happened there, just because one man has a flash in the pan success, far from makes him one in his next club. carlos for instance is doing exceptionally well at swansea, but he has a fit side, something he had here in the first season.

the second season cries of 'why aren't we playing last season's high tempo pressing game?' appears to have been solved.

 

I think the standard at the top of the Championship last season in Newcastle and Brighton was better than this season, both of those would have been well up there with Wolves this season. The money spent may be getting more but I am not sure it is making such a big difference across the board. Derby have spent less than in previous seasons but look like having a better crack of it this time around, Bristol's net spend isn't as high as many in the division and Utd & Cardiff haven't spent as much as others, though Cardiff appear to have caught the bug in January by what they spent on Madine - many of their freebies and modest purchases will have been far better value for money. 

There is enough quality out there without having to send vast amounts and with some of they good players we have to come back next season then we should still be able to build a good squad.  

[Dooogs]

2 hours ago, gurujuan said:

 

As others have said, we are not going to solve these problems overnight If Jos is not happy with the fitness levels, there’s not an awful lot he can do about it now, that can come later

Hmm... a couple of questions come to mind from that...

 

1) Have we still got Carlos' fitness coach team or did they leave when he did? (and if so, has Jos replaced them with his own picks?) ; and

 

2) For any physios / fitness trainers out there, how much can you do to improve a squad's fitness regime mid-season? Obviously, you can't do much with the injured players, but how much scope is there to raise training intensity without crocking the remaining players?

 

Assuming we stay up (and Jos stays), I'm looking forward to seeing a fit, hungry squad in August...

[Ante's Bubbly]

On 22/02/2018 at 11:29, @owlstalk said:

 

It's very very clear that there's been a very serious and major issue with player fitness

I know we have had injuries and so do you. It's obvious that players haven't been fit

But Jos's response to the last journalist in this press conference has got me raging

It's clear that the fitness of this squad has been absolutely criminal. 

Carlos really has left us with an absolute total disaster of a squad fitness wise and Jos was as professional as he could be but his response was about as damning as it could possibly be without saying that Carlos might as well have given the squad an ice-cream and told them all to go for a walk on Scarborough Beach every day instead of any kind of fitness training whatsoever.

I'll post the video when it's up on Youtube so you can see for yourselves but I'll be honest I'm absolutely raging about what Carlos has done to our players on the fitness side now.

I feel very very sorry for Jos having to sort this mess out and getting stick whilst he's trying to do so. It sounds like the fitness of this squad at a professional football club in the Championship has been neglected by Carlos and his staff about as badly as it could have been.

Anyone knocking Jos right now or bigging up Carlos anymore can sod off. After this press conference neither are acceptable options to me. We need to back Jos 100% right now as he cleans up the worst possible mess left behind.

Disgraceful


If you've not seen the press conference please for the love of god watch it before posting any replies because this is YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB that is in this mess.

 

Yours faithfully Mr Genuinely Livid

 

 

We did not look fit most of last season, it has just been continuing into this one. Yes I have been concerned about it for a long time, but not now, I have moved on and I am positive about our new fully fit future. I cannot understand, considering "Owlstalk's"/your stance on other negative aspects, why you insist in going on about it. If players are injured, carrying injuries etc do you expect them to continue training on a training ground which has itself been blamed for many of those injuries coming about in the first place? Maybe you should show Carlos some positivity for letting AA, FF and others continue their specialist training sessions away from our crippling training ground and maybe also show Carlos a little positivity regarding what he has managed for us despite all the injuries and lack of fitness. Or maybe you expect the players to train on Wadsley common, or in Hillsborough Park? Maybe you should just draw a line under it and move on in true positive fashion. There seems to be a plethora of Owlstalk instigated posts lately, but not all of them are actually positive are they? Let us please move on with this. We have a new manager and the same problems, did you not hear the rest of the questions from the RS reporter?

 

OK we have a lot of players out injured, but we did last season and despite several unfit players playing against Huddersfield in the play off semi final, which we only lost on penalties, 

 

What gets me livid is that if the interview in question had been put on by Owlstalk, there would have been no awkward questions, we would not be able to comment on it and it would get pulled before the interview had ended.

 

I posted recently in the football forum, asking where the Lee Strafford post had disappeared to and why it had been pulled, because it was first referred to there, most probably because the boardroom area had also been pulled from Owlstalk. Many Owlstalkers were interested in reading these posts and although the Owlstak official reply was reasonable enough, my post was then moved to be stuck away, where none of the previously interested parties could join in, to some obscure corner of the site, with no indication as to where it had gone, or why. Since I was last able to access the thread there have been several replies from people, including you Mr Owlstalk, which I now cannot read because it has now been wiped altogether. My post was polite, it was not controversial and I thought I had raised some good points that other Owlstalkers wanted to discuss. Subject to your recent actions, I now totally disagree with your replies on the matters discussed, because Owlstalk IS being gagged, you are gagging it and severely restricting what can and cannot be discussed on here.I actually was stupid enough to think that Owlstalk was for fans to talk to each other about matters concerning our club, without any external spin or leanings. I shall now have to treat the site as yet another site for trivial banter and boring one sided debate, thatis only allowed to continue as long as it toes your wavy line.

 

Do not try to hide behind the, "it is impossible to have serious discussions" nonsense, because you could easily pull any replies which do not address the issue being discussed,just  as you already pull posts which do try to address matters which Owls fans feel strongly about.

 

As for getting aggrieved about things in the past, let US ALL decide what we do and do not get upset about on here and please go back to letting us discuss these things openly.

 

Yours, a lifelong through and through Wednesday fan, always with a glass half full not too far away!

 

UTFO!

[@owlstalk]

 

Hi mate,

Thanks for that. Some interesting points and I'll read through it a few times and try to take on board what you're saying

 

The boardroom has been pulled. There were things in there that could land posters in trouble and I'm not wanting that at all. 

I"ll back off a bit with the moderating but recently (and you don't see the stuff we have to pull) it's been mad season. 

The Lee Strafford post being pulled is, was and will always be our right as a site to protect the site from any action taking place, and any action taking place against people who post on here. I totally reserve my right to delete and pull threads without any need for explanation however. I'm not willing to keep a thread/post up and the subsquent replies to it that could open up people to action just because you wanted to read it. 

 

I genuinely appreciate you putting your thoughts out there in such a constructive manner and promise I'll act on what you've said re the site

As for my thoughts/posts - they are merely my own thoughts and are no weightier than anyone else's. You're clearly a Carlos fan and that's your right. I'm not. I'm concerned only with this football club and it's clear Carlos left us in a right mess regardless of anything he achieved before it.