Buddy Repperton Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 YAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quist Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 The real problem regarding wages from what I can see is how the player is viewed. We were told hirst was offered best Academy contract ever. I think he is now 20 and has to be viewed as a senior player. The problem is many in under23s were seen as not ready for first team football and were offered wages in accordance with this. The last couple of months have demonstrated this is not the situation with several representing the first team and doing well. If Hirst had been in with squad he would have certainly been on bench if not starting a game. The wages offered to those who have signed contracts clearly have to reflect they are now playing in first team (or at least memeber of squad). To me if Hirst is allowed to train with first team and can be assessed by Jos this would be key to breaking the deadlock. I am certain Jos would quickly have an idea of potential of Hirst and could advise on appropriate lcontract for him. The contract offered to a player is guided by what manager/coaches have said to negotiators and when Hirst was in negotiations and different view was held on Academy players by first team coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookone Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: Im OK about 2 of those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Personally can’t see Homebase lasting out a recession. Always dead in there and full of overpriced stock. Much more likely to get what you want at B&Q. *notametaphor Edited February 20, 2018 by Sonny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlZfan84 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 35 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: George walking into DC's office like.. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarn owl Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 What will happen first, Brexit actually happens or Hirst leaves or signs new deal???? Although logically he has gone in the summer I don't believe in logic anymore so god knows. Maybe now the academy saviour Jos has arrived Hirst will play. I'm going for Brexit, in 2020 we will still be debating Hirst and then he'll play his first game for Wednesday and be bang average, or play his first game for Leicester and look like Englands new saviour and shoot them to European glory in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurujuan Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 If it were a choice, though why it would be, I don’t know, but I’d take keeping George over a return to stripes I’d wager there are plenty on here who’s formative years were spent watching Wednesday, playing in similar kits to the ones worn today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Quist said: The real problem regarding wages from what I can see is how the player is viewed. We were told hirst was offered best Academy contract ever. I think he is now 20 and has to be viewed as a senior player. The problem is many in under23s were seen as not ready for first team football and were offered wages in accordance with this. The last couple of months have demonstrated this is not the situation with several representing the first team and doing well. If Hirst had been in with squad he would have certainly been on bench if not starting a game. The wages offered to those who have signed contracts clearly have to reflect they are now playing in first team (or at least memeber of squad). To me if Hirst is allowed to train with first team and can be assessed by Jos this would be key to breaking the deadlock. I am certain Jos would quickly have an idea of potential of Hirst and could advise on appropriate lcontract for him. The contract offered to a player is guided by what manager/coaches have said to negotiators and when Hirst was in negotiations and different view was held on Academy players by first team coach. Yep. DC and Meire don't really know how much a player is worth because they can't directly assess his abilities for themselves, and as you say, JL can't really say much about Hirst till he's worked with him. Why DC felt it the way to go in preventing Hirst from playing all the way back in August, I'll never know. I've no doubt cultural clashes would go someway to explain, but this isn't Thailand, and George Hirst isn't Thai. However DC thought his action would be interpreted, he really ought to know by now that this sort of approach just creates bad blood. Stopping the lad from playing was just a daft thing to do, and now we can only hope against hope that Meire can somehow mend bridges and get all sides talking again. As a start, just let him get back to full training with the U23s and first-team players, and allow him to play in the dev squad games. Let JL assess him in terms of potential, and then see where we are in a couple of months. Forcing him to remain on the periphery and the outcome this summer will be obvious, but bring him back into the fold and we might yet see the lad play for us again (in stripes, of course!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osowl Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, gurujuan said: If it were a choice, though why it would be, I don’t know, but I’d take keeping George over a return to stripes I’d wager there are plenty on here who’s formative years were spent watching Wednesday, playing in similar kits to the ones worn today True but the thing for me is the current strip has now been forever tainted with memories of Morgan Fox and Jacob Butterfield disgracing it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAL Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, cowl said: Yep. DC and Meire don't really know how much a player is worth because they can't directly assess his abilities for themselves, and as you say, JL can't really say much about Hirst till he's worked with him. Why DC felt it the way to go in preventing Hirst from playing all the way back in August, I'll never know. I've no doubt cultural clashes would go someway to explain, but this isn't Thailand, and George Hirst isn't Thai. However DC thought his action would be interpreted, he really ought to know by now that this sort of approach just creates bad blood. Stopping the lad from playing was just a daft thing to do, and now we can only hope against hope that Meire can somehow mend bridges and get all sides talking again. As a start, just let him get back to full training with the U23s and first-team players, and allow him to play in the dev squad games. Let JL assess him in terms of potential, and then see where we are in a couple of months. Forcing him to remain on the periphery and the outcome this summer will be obvious, but bring him back into the fold and we might yet see the lad play for us again (in stripes, of course!) Which player, that has signed his contract, is going to miss out and make way for him then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 What a weird thread. Surely Young George is in Asda not sodding B&Q or Home base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quist Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, cowl said: Yep. DC and Meire don't really know how much a player is worth because they can't directly assess his abilities for themselves, and as you say, JL can't really say much about Hirst till he's worked with him. Why DC felt it the way to go in preventing Hirst from playing all the way back in August, I'll never know. I've no doubt cultural clashes would go someway to explain, but this isn't Thailand, and George Hirst isn't Thai. However DC thought his action would be interpreted, he really ought to know by now that this sort of approach just creates bad blood. Stopping the lad from playing was just a daft thing to do, and now we can only hope against hope that Meire can somehow mend bridges and get all sides talking again. As a start, just let him get back to full training with the U23s and first-team players, and allow him to play in the dev squad games. Let JL assess him in terms of potential, and then see where we are in a couple of months. Forcing him to remain on the periphery and the outcome this summer will be obvious, but bring him back into the fold and we might yet see the lad play for us again (in stripes, of course!) Think there is also agents who I think make more from transfers than just agreeing new contract. DC mentioned they were not even replying to correspondence. Their was also the abuse from member of Georges family directed at a coach, I think this is irrelevant as George can not be blamed for this but depending on what was said who it was directed at may have resulted in club digging in heels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklord Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 33 minutes ago, Sonny said: Personally can’t see Homebase lasting out a recession. Always dead in there and full of overpriced stock. Much more likely to get what you want at B&Q. *notametaphor It amazes me they have lasted the past 10 years. You see more folks at a Sunderland match than in homebase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, MAL said: Which player, that has signed his contract, is going to miss out and make way for him then? George Hirst is currently under contract. Do the last 10 months of a contract not matter anymore? We could've had another 10 months to work with him. And where do we make the cut-off point perhaps we should open negotiations with all the players under 20 and see whether they still plan to be here in 2 or 3 years time, and anyone who's anything less than 100% certain we simply exclude them - after all, we only want those who will commit their futures to the club. Besides, the issue of how the coaches manage and develop the squad of players is separate to whether preventing the lad from playing at all when he has 10 months of a contract still left to run is the way to proceed with negotiating a new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, Quist said: Think there is also agents who I think make more from transfers than just agreeing new contract. DC mentioned they were not even replying to correspondence. Their was also the abuse from member of Georges family directed at a coach, I think this is irrelevant as George can not be blamed for this but depending on what was said who it was directed at may have resulted in club digging in heels. No doubt, and it's quite simply not on. I expect the club not to lose sight of the fact that the most important relationships they have are with the fans, the players, and the staff. Neither the parents of players, nor their agents are ultimately important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlZfan84 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAL Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, cowl said: George Hirst is currently under contract. Do the last 10 months of a contract not matter anymore? We could've had another 10 months to work with him. And where do we make the cut-off point perhaps we should open negotiations with all the players under 20 and see whether they still plan to be here in 2 or 3 years time, and anyone who's anything less than 100% certain we simply exclude them - after all, we only want those who will commit their futures to the club. Besides, the issue of how the coaches manage and develop the squad of players is separate to whether preventing the lad from playing at all when he has 10 months of a contract still left to run is the way to proceed with negotiating a new contract. George Hirst will not be signing a new contract past this season. Do the ten months of the person that has to step down not matter? Does the development of the person that has to step down not matter? What if the person that has to step down to make way for him, could have been twice as good? Yes i do want players that will commit their futures to the club. You keep saying, it is not fair on him, but it has been his choice to leave. I keep saying, it is not fair on the person who has committed his future to the club, and willing to progress here. Him not being able to play just because another person has got his place, then expect him to commit his future again just because that player has gone for his pieces of silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookowl Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, cowl said: No doubt, and it's quite simply not on. I expect the club not to lose sight of the fact that the most important relationships they have are with the fans, the players, and the staff. Neither the parents of players, nor their agents are ultimately important. Try telling that to the agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyCraig Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Greedy players are the ruination of football. Top teams who will pay anything for success are also massively to blame. Yes, you can say that's life, have to live in today's world, that kind of thing but ultimately it's the fans who suffer. George Hirst won't suffer one bit. In a perfect world, clubs would stick together and not allow the kind of horrendous greed from today's players but that won't happen. Before Bosman they were hardly underpaid. Now they are disgustingly greedy rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowl Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, MAL said: George Hirst will not be signing a new contract past this season. Do the ten months of the person that has to step down not matter? Does the development of the person that has to step down not matter? What if the person that has to step down to make way for him, could have been twice as good? Yes i do want players that will commit their futures to the club. You keep saying, it is not fair on him, but it has been his choice to leave. I keep saying, it is not fair on the person who has committed his future to the club, and willing to progress here. Him not being able to play just because another person has got his place, then expect him to commit his future again just because that player has gone for his pieces of silver. Why are you assuming that this is purely about greed with George Hirst anyway? Neither of us know the reason. Maybe Hirst has said he won't sign as a reaction to being told: "sign now or don't play this season." People don't tend to like ultimatums, after all. Also, how do you know that the player who'll receive more focused development due to Hirst being excluded won't himself also leave once his contract is up? Especially so if he turns out to be twice as good as Hirst. Perhaps the club should only give development opportunities to players that have no less than two years left to run on their contracts. What's the point of working with any footballer whose contract expires before their 24th birthday? Besides, why not just send Hirst out on loan? He doesn't then have to take up anyone's place in the development squad. There were clubs lined up - but oh, no - he has to sign his contract first. Utterly ridiculous. Thorniley, Clare, and Stobbs all went out on loan despite being in the final year of their contracts, they all also went out without needing to sign a contract first - why not with George Hirst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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