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Tom Lees played through pain but ended up worse off


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14 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:


I'm so exhausted by it all I can't even be bothered to go into it again.

All the things coming out from the players since Carlos left points to the same thing.

 

It's clear. It's obvious.

And it's coming from the players not someone making it up on the internet.

Anyway - let's keep things positive eh?

No point doing this to death again

fair enough lets move on

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2 hours ago, Bigaltheowl said:

and most were putting the blame on carlos

And quite rightly, he's the manager.  His job is to manage the players including their fitness, injuries etc.

 

Most players would probably say they are OK to play even if they are carrying an injury (as with Tom Lees).  A good manager should know when to play and when not to play one of their players.

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Puts to bed the myth that Carlos forced the players to play through injury... Tom says he insisted on playing.

 

I appreciate the sentiment but it explains why he was absolutely gash in the weeks prior to him being on the sidelines. And the decision hindered the team. I'm pleased there is an explanation to his poor form though. It eases my concerns about him. 

 

Cant wait to have him back fully fit. Excellent CB and on his day he is one of the best outside the PL

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32 minutes ago, ramone said:

Puts to bed the myth that Carlos forced the players to play through injury... Tom says he insisted on playing.

That's what you want from a player.

What you want from a manager is them to then say "That's very brave of you Tom, but you need to get yourself fit, so I'm afraid you'll have to sit this one out."

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Just now, JackSWFC said:

That's what you want from a player.

What you want from a manager is them to then say "That's very brave of you Tom, but you need to get yourself fit, so I'm afraid you'll have to sit this one out."

Hmmmm not quite sure I can agree with you.

 

Did you watch Newcastle v Man Utd the other day? Cant remember exactly which ex pro they had commentating but he said the same as me... Pogba was injured during the warm up and during the first half was continually asked by Mourinho if he was fit to carry on and Pogba kept putting his thumb up saying yes he was fine. The commentator said he should just tell Jose that he was injured as, by staying on injured, he was cheating his team mates.

 

All the manager can do in that situation is ask the player and trust them. If you think Carlos shoudl have diagnosed his injury or not trusted him then you're way off understanding what happens at a football club. 

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3 hours ago, owls about that said:

“I tried to do everything I could to stay on the pitch but it probably got to the point where it was a little bit stupid of me, to be honest, to carry on playing. If anything, I made it worse. “Maybe if I had swallowed my pride a bit earlier I might have been out a couple of weeks rather than a couple of months

Why did the management allow this to happen, playing a player when he is clearly injured.

It seems to happen a lot at Wednesday. Last season Bannan played most games with an injury, Kieran Lee certainly did, Hoops came back too soon and got injured again, Fletcher has been managing his knee injury for over a year, probably playing when he shouldn't have, Ross Wallace broke down in first 5 minutes of play off semi and this season Jack Hunt and Sam Hutchinson came back far too quickly leading to worse injury problems. 

Don't even get me started on Fessi who should have had the operation nearly a year ago but the club inexplicably waited until the season had already started.

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39 minutes ago, ramone said:

Hmmmm not quite sure I can agree with you.

 

Did you watch Newcastle v Man Utd the other day? Cant remember exactly which ex pro they had commentating but he said the same as me... Pogba was injured during the warm up and during the first half was continually asked by Mourinho if he was fit to carry on and Pogba kept putting his thumb up saying yes he was fine. The commentator said he should just tell Jose that he was injured as, by staying on injured, he was cheating his team mates.

 

All the manager can do in that situation is ask the player and trust them. If you think Carlos shoudl have diagnosed his injury or not trusted him then you're way off understanding what happens at a football club. 

But it wasn’t over the course of one match, but several. Would you say that Lees had been playing to the standards that you’d expect him to be? I don’t think he was, and that’s when you could expect Carlos to think that maybe the injury he’s carrying is effecting his performances and perhaps he should allow him to recover fully instead of letting him carry on playing games.

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2 hours ago, ramone said:

Puts to bed the myth that Carlos forced the players to play through injury... Tom says he insisted on playing.

 

 

 

I always thought that while CC is not blameless for playing people while not fully fit its a bit harsh all the blame laid at his door.

Ultimately its up to the player weather he plays or not when returning for injury. Sure CC tried to use his oily charm on Lee and Hutchinson to play in the play offs but if they said no due to still being injured then that's that.

CC said he couldn't get Rhodes to take a pen because he didn't want to v Huddersfield so doubt he put a gun to the head of any player.

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40 minutes ago, JackSWFC said:

But it wasn’t over the course of one match, but several. Would you say that Lees had been playing to the standards that you’d expect him to be? I don’t think he was, and that’s when you could expect Carlos to think that maybe the injury he’s carrying is effecting his performances and perhaps he should allow him to recover fully instead of letting him carry on playing games.

He's our best centre half who was playing poorly for about 4 weeks prior to his injury lay off. I don't think he was playing anywhere his best. But if Tom Lees is declaring himself fit, when we have injured Centre Halves, what are you to do?

 

If, at the time, Carlos brought Thorniley in for Tom Lees and he'd have had a stinker, what would everyones reaction been? I know, I suspect you know as well. 

 

Carlos was under pressure to get results. It was a totally different kettle of fish to what Jos has. Im pleased Cos has introduced him, he's been great. But I don't think it was a risk Carlos could have taken

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2 hours ago, ramone said:

Puts to bed the myth that Carlos forced the players to play through injury... Tom says he insisted on playing.

 

I appreciate the sentiment but it explains why he was absolutely gash in the weeks prior to him being on the sidelines. And the decision hindered the team. I'm pleased there is an explanation to his poor form though. It eases my concerns about him. 

 

Cant wait to have him back fully fit. Excellent CB and on his day he is one of the best outside the PL

 

The decision of who plays is down to the manager. How the eck can a player insist he plays.

 

If a manager lets a player he knows is injured play then the fault for his poor performances and the worsening of the injury is clearly with the manager. And both happened.

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5 hours ago, Bigaltheowl said:

and most were putting the blame on carlos

 

2 hours ago, ramone said:

Puts to bed the myth that Carlos forced the players to play through injury... Tom says he insisted on playing

 

It is a bit different in terms of coming back into the team after an injury now.

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3 hours ago, oldishowl said:

 

The decision of who plays is down to the manager. How the eck can a player insist he plays.

 

If a manager lets a player he knows is injured play then the fault for his poor performances and the worsening of the injury is clearly with the manager. And both happened.

So you've never heard of the term 'the player declared himself fit to play'

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