#SWFC Summer 2018 Transfer Window Rumours Thread

[room0035]

15 minutes ago, Royal_D said:

 

You can’t really compare how many goals he had scored against the first team lads record can you really,  however many he had scored they were all at academy level football 

What I am saying is everyone blames him for not resigning when you are a kid and you see you are performing against what you are allowed to play against you think you can take on the world but then when you manager say sorry you are getting no game time then for him to look elsewhere where he is going to get first team game time be that on loan or not he is going to go.

 

One of the many mistake we made with him was not sending him out on loan to league 1 or 2 in August at least we would have known if he was ready for first team football.

[Inspector Lestrade]

4 hours ago, room0035 said:

There is a very simple way to do this but we simple don't do it, we sign the players to standard 3 year contract when they join the development squad on what ever is the going wag be that only £500 a week, we should have the coaches with enough about them to see after a season of working with them how they are developing. If they look like first team future players you renegotiate an improved deal but with an option for the club to extend at the end of it. If not then they stay with the development squad to hopefully develop, or we get rid to teams lower down the league structure. £500 a week is £26,000 a year + coach lets say £100,000 you only need 1 or 2 players to make the first team step up every season to more than cover the costs of developing 15-20 players each year.

 

Look this season Thorniley has stepped up meaning we don't need to replace Loovens and this could save us millions in the next few years, Dawson/Wildsmith have stepped up we could get rid of Westwood and not need to replace him save £20k+ a week on his salary and a sizable fee to replace a player of his standard.

 

This is how other teams do it, we have for 10 years+ been very short sighted with youth and not given them a chance to develop but not rewarded them for it. the Hirst saga has been an embarrassment for everyone but what we need is the club to learn from it. £5,000 a week would cost us £260,000 a year, £10,000 a week - £520,000 a year. But we might get a million in compensation for him but you only have to look at the like of Sheff United and Barnsley how much we could have missed out on Barnsley had a 17.5% sell on in the Stones deal that netted them nearly £9m from the sell on after selling him for £3m, Sheff Utd sold Maguire for £3m and have received another £5m from the sell on fee.

 

When you are under the cosh with FFP, having a productive youth team that provides players and also helps to balance the books is the difference between the teams that do well and the teams that get caught out by FFP.

 

The best example I can see in our league at the moment is Brentford, they have a conveyor belt of good young players and great scouting from the lower league they sold £20m+ of players last season and improved their team narrowly missing out on the play offs. We are penny pinching in the wrong areas, then giving out silly contracts to players like Fletcher £40k, Abdi £30k, Matia £25, Jones £25k. These 4 players off the wage bill would save £5m+ a year in salaries - this is the reason the finance are in a mess not the £10,000 a week Hirst and Clare may have wanted.   

 

So, many fallacies, distortions and assumptions not going to reply, I would need a whole afternoon to smash your argument to bits.

 

But I take your point 

[BARMYARMY2010]

1 minute ago, Watson said:

 

So, many fallacies, distortions and assumptions not going to reply, I would need a whole afternoon to smash your argument to bits.

 

But I take your point 

Go on fella, do it, saves me doing it. 

[room0035]

1 minute ago, Watson said:

 

So, many fallacies, distortions and assumptions not going to reply, I would need a whole afternoon to smash your argument to bits.

 

But I take your point 

Putting it simply youth is the future of the club until we value it we will continue having our hands tied by FFP pr what ever it is now called unless we get promoted which has proved difficult for the last 19 years.

[Inspector Lestrade]

6 hours ago, nevthelodgemoorowl said:

Yes it would but i'm quite relaxed by the situation. 

 

Like chill out man

[fred mciver]

13 minutes ago, room0035 said:

Putting it simply youth is the future of the club until we value it we will continue having our hands tied by FFP pr what ever it is now called unless we get promoted which has proved difficult for the last 19 years.

Have some sympathy with your points some teams have ditched youth academies as vulnerable to EPL vultures.

 

Hirsty rooms with some Chelsea 5th teamer for England kids who says I'm on £30,000 per week.

 

FFP for me means finding next Brunty or Whelan.

[room0035]

Just now, fred mciver said:

Have some sympathy with your points some teams have ditched youth academies as vulnerable to EPL vultures.

 

Hirsty rooms with some Chelsea 5th teamer for England kids who says I'm on £30,000 per week.

 

FFP for me means finding next Brunty or Whelan.

Or developing our own Brunty, Whelan as we were league one when signing these two and it took them a few years to get up to speed - I think it was turner who signed them but that may be wrong.

[Hougoumont]

39 minutes ago, room0035 said:

What I am saying is everyone blames him for not resigning when you are a kid and you see you are performing against what you are allowed to play against you think you can take on the world but then when you manager say sorry you are getting no game time then for him to look elsewhere where he is going to get first team game time be that on loan or not he is going to go.

 

One of the many mistake we made with him was not sending him out on loan to league 1 or 2 in August at least we would have known if he was ready for first team football.

Yeah! send a highly promising youngster out on loan into the big shop window with 8 months left on his contract.

That's probably why you couldn't forge a career in football management.

 

 

I understand you're pi**ed off at the prospect of losing a good youngster but it takes two to tango and D Hirst is on record as saying that his lad would not be signing for SWFC "If I have anything to do with it" He obviously has a chip on his shoulder regarding Wednesday...and I would suggest that the statement from CC about him not getting any game time was from his boss who doesn't like being used and abused.

[hawksmore]

5 hours ago, room0035 said:

There is a very simple way to do this but we simple don't do it, we sign the players to standard 3 year contract when they join the development squad on what ever is the going wag be that only £500 a week, we should have the coaches with enough about them to see after a season of working with them how they are developing. If they look like first team future players you renegotiate an improved deal but with an option for the club to extend at the end of it. If not then they stay with the development squad to hopefully develop, or we get rid to teams lower down the league structure. £500 a week is £26,000 a year + coach lets say £100,000 you only need 1 or 2 players to make the first team step up every season to more than cover the costs of developing 15-20 players each year.

 

Look this season Thorniley has stepped up meaning we don't need to replace Loovens and this could save us millions in the next few years, Dawson/Wildsmith have stepped up we could get rid of Westwood and not need to replace him save £20k+ a week on his salary and a sizable fee to replace a player of his standard.

 

This is how other teams do it, we have for 10 years+ been very short sighted with youth and not given them a chance to develop but not rewarded them for it. the Hirst saga has been an embarrassment for everyone but what we need is the club to learn from it. £5,000 a week would cost us £260,000 a year, £10,000 a week - £520,000 a year. But we might get a million in compensation for him but you only have to look at the like of Sheff United and Barnsley how much we could have missed out on Barnsley had a 17.5% sell on in the Stones deal that netted them nearly £9m from the sell on after selling him for £3m, Sheff Utd sold Maguire for £3m and have received another £5m from the sell on fee.

 

When you are under the cosh with FFP, having a productive youth team that provides players and also helps to balance the books is the difference between the teams that do well and the teams that get caught out by FFP.

 

The best example I can see in our league at the moment is Brentford, they have a conveyor belt of good young players and great scouting from the lower league they sold £20m+ of players last season and improved their team narrowly missing out on the play offs. We are penny pinching in the wrong areas, then giving out silly contracts to players like Fletcher £40k, Abdi £30k, Matia £25, Jones £25k. These 4 players off the wage bill would save £5m+ a year in salaries - this is the reason the finance are in a mess not the £10,000 a week Hirst and Clare may have wanted.   

 

You make it sound anything but simple. But then oversimplified the finances at the end, it’s a good job you’re not in charge. 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, room0035 said:

Does loyalty not work both ways though the club did not start negotiating with Clare until he had 6 months left of his contract. So for the kid and his advisers to get to January and the club not bother to tie him down to a new deals it is not his fault for looking elsewhere,

 

The problem with Hirst was basically Carlos - when Hirst started coming through beginning of last season he was tipped to get a chance in the first team at which point Carlos came out and said he would not get a chance for 18 months. Your a young player scoring 40 goals in a season, playing for your country and developing and you look at the first team and Hirst had scored more goals that Hooper, Joao, Nuihu, Winnall and Fletcher put together but he doesn't get a chance even when players ahead of him were not performing week in week out.

 

Look the whole saga has been a complete clusterfuck by all sides, but for me the thing that will be remembered most is when we get Karien comes in and we invited GH to come back and train with the club and play we get told in a press conference that he is not allowed to play any games - for me this said everything I needed to know about who was the main issue in the negotiations. 

You cant half waffle on

[Nero]

Love it when people explain in excruciating detail how little they know about something.

[Guest wilyfox]

Keep it succinct. Yes/no answers.

 

[pazowl55]

2 hours ago, room0035 said:

Putting it simply youth is the future of the club until we value it we will continue having our hands tied by FFP pr what ever it is now called unless we get promoted which has proved difficult for the last 19 years.

The cost of academy's are so expensive nowadays and you could literally nurture the next Messi from 10 years of age all the way till he is 16 just for a big club to take him off you and the fa go here you are here is 250k compo for all you trouble. Only for that big club to sell him on a year later for 30 million. 

 

Why the lower league clubs don't hardly do it anymore. 

Risk not worth the reward.

For every success you can think off there is probably 20 or 30 failures.

[Bluesteel]

2 hours ago, fred mciver said:

Have some sympathy with your points some teams have ditched youth academies as vulnerable to EPL vultures.

 

Hirsty rooms with some Chelsea 5th teamer for England kids who says I'm on £30,000 per week.

 

FFP for me means finding next Brunty or Whelan.

 

For me it’s a mix of everything, having the clout to buy that quality you need at the right time, but also bringing one or two young players in and looking for the next talents in the leagues below and prem u23s. Doing only one of those things leads to problems eventually.

[BARMYARMY2010]

2 hours ago, fred mciver said:

Have some sympathy with your points some teams have ditched youth academies as vulnerable to EPL vultures.

 

Hirsty rooms with some Chelsea 5th teamer for England kids who says I'm on £30,000 per week.

 

FFP for me means finding next Brunty or Whelan.

Chelsea have reportedly (as of February 2017) introduced a maximum of £5000 a week for youth team players after admitting they were pretty frivolous on contracts given to youth team players signing their first professional contracts,Ruben loftus cheek remains their highest paid 17 year old (as of feb 2017) who earns a reported £10,000 a week.Dominic Solanke reportedly earns £7000 a week but looks likely to leave at the end of the current season.

Liverpool (as of October 2016) are to enforce a salary cap for under 17's (or first year professionals) of no more than £40000 a YEAR.

The premier league clubs as a whole are trying to combat the "Too much,too young" .

However, Liverpool and other clubs who take a similar approach face a problem in that it’s believed some clubs in the top flight are willing to hand players as young as 16 contracts worth £11,000-a-week, meaning teenagers across the country could face a football vs money dilemma.

[RichieB]

1 hour ago, Peacenocchio said:

Love it when people explain in excruciating detail how little they know about something.

 

 

[The Night-Owl]

Anything happening? Any rumours? 

It's going to be a long summer, as usual... 

 

Ain't there some other thread somewhere for FFP/economic jargon? 

[S36 OWL]

1 hour ago, Peacenocchio said:

Love it when people explain in excruciating detail how little they know about something.

 

Politicians do it everyday , its nothing unusual. 

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

On ‎22‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 19:06, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Clare and Hirst have 10x the potential of Hayden White.

They do now, they didn't at the time. That's the thing about potential if it doesn't come off you can just find something else you can do !

[Shezza]

9 hours ago, room0035 said:

Does loyalty not work both ways though the club did not start negotiating with Clare until he had 6 months left of his contract. So for the kid and his advisers to get to January and the club not bother to tie him down to a new deals it is not his fault for looking elsewhere,

 

The problem with Hirst was basically Carlos - when Hirst started coming through beginning of last season he was tipped to get a chance in the first team at which point Carlos came out and said he would not get a chance for 18 months. Your a young player scoring 40 goals in a season, playing for your country and developing and you look at the first team and Hirst had scored more goals that Hooper, Joao, Nuihu, Winnall and Fletcher put together but he doesn't get a chance even when players ahead of him were not performing week in week out.

 

Look the whole saga has been a complete clusterfuck by all sides, but for me the thing that will be remembered most is when we get Karien comes in and we invited GH to come back and train with the club and play we get told in a press conference that he is not allowed to play any games - for me this said everything I needed to know about who was the main issue in the negotiations. 

 

Great comparison. Wonder how many goals Fletcher would have scored at U-23 and U-19 level in a full season.