Quist Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Must admit a good few years ago thought Butterfield was decent player but football has changed dramatically in Championship over last 4/5 years with emphasis on winning ball and striking quickly not dwelling on ball. He has looked particularly out of place at times and he may be one of those who has been deployed in wrong position but think he is one of those who has been unable to adapt to changes in the game. We have acquired a few like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poite Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 He's a player who was brought in for the wrong reasons, to play in the wrong role by an awful football manager. I'm more than willing to give all our players a clean slate under Jos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel Fessi Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 If we're having a midfield 3, he can't play the CDM role like Jones can and i'd rather have Wallace/Boyd/Reach in the attacking CAM roles anyway. He was excellent at Villa away and I don't like to single out players individually when collectively we have been poor this season but Butterfield is one of the ones who have been regularly abysmal when given an opportunity to prove himself. The back to back home games of conceding penalties is something i don't think i'll ever forget. However, everyone should be given a fresh slate under a new gaffer who looks to be making big changes in the tactics and our style of play but i'd much rather see others given the opportunity first than JB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryPlopper Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 23 hours ago, StudentOwl said: I don't think he's got worse overnight, just over the course of a few seasons. I know it's crude but according to transfermarkt: 2013/14: Middlesbrough, 31 appearances, 3 goals and 2 assists 2014/15: Huddersfield, 45 appearances, 6 goals and 7 assists 2015/16: Derby, 37 appearances, 7 goals and 1 assist 2016/17: Derby, 40 appearances, 1 goal and 3 assists 2017/18: Wednesday: 16 appearances, 0 goals and 1 assist Interestingly he "only" scored 3 goals and made 1 assist in 2016 despite playing the majority of games in that calendar year Seems to me he peaked in 2014 and 2015 and has been going downhill since 2016. So not really an overnight turn around into a bad player like Snooty says... I'm interpreting this as a slow descent into mediocrity at Championship level. Hope I'm proved wrong. The only problem you have with stats is that they lie. Those stats show you what he played, they don't show what played around him on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shezzas left peg Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 For me he looks lazy and disinterested far too much, maybe one of those players that needs plenty of leaders around him to keep giving him verbal and a kick up the backside in games. Hopefully venancio, the new lad josey and hutch when back may be able to push him so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouncing Owl Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 He looks like a player who has lost his mojo! I think it happens in modern day football - players accumulate large sums of money and I don’t think some have the motivation and drive to be successful. Buttercup has been lazy and disinterested since his arrival. I would send him back to Derby if possible. I know David Jones gets some stick here but at least he is professional and he puts a shift in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, a_weishaupt said: The only problem you have with stats is that they lie. Those stats show you what he played, they don't show what played around him on the pitch. Like I say, it's crude, I'd only ever use it as an extremely rough guide But to counter your point I'd make the argument that he was around decent players at Huddersfield and at least as decent players at Derby... It's not like he swapped a decent side for a struggling one and that would effect his game. I know, I know... It doesn't account for style of play of the teams he's representing and the role he's being asked to play but like I said... I know it's a very very crude measurement. Equally, I'm wondering if you can offer any evidence to suggest he isn't heading towards total Championship mediocrity? I wanna see it, please. We're stuck with him til the end of the season so I'd love to see some evidence that he hasn't been largely "meh" for the last couple of years and he'll kick on and be a force for us over the next four months. Genuinely. Unfortunately I think you'll struggle. The fans' eyes largely tell the same story as the ridiculously crude stats I've used our opinions are fast mirroring those of the Derby fans that have had 24 months to come to a conclusion. All these little bits of evidence point to the same conclusion... He just isn't a very good player and is a shadow of what he was after a couple of very good seasons at this level. He needs to work hard to turn it around. Personally I don't think we should waste time trying to coach a player's career back on track when he isn't even ours and has (again, supported by very crude stats) been shown to not be making the same waves he once did a couple of years ago. But that's just my somewhat ignorant opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryPlopper Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, StudentOwl said: Like I say, it's crude, I'd only ever use it as an extremely rough guide But to counter your point I'd make the argument that he was around decent players at Huddersfield and at least as decent players at Derby... It's not like he swapped a decent side for a struggling one and that would effect his game. I know, I know... It doesn't account for style of play of the teams he's representing and the role he's being asked to play but like I said... I know it's a very very crude measurement. Equally, I'm wondering if you can offer any evidence to suggest he isn't heading towards total Championship mediocrity? I wanna see it, please. We're stuck with him til the end of the season so I'd love to see some evidence that he hasn't been largely "meh" for the last couple of years and he'll kick on and be a force for us over the next four months. Genuinely. Unfortunately I think you'll struggle. The fans' eyes largely tell the same story as the ridiculously crude stats I've used our opinions are fast mirroring those of the Derby fans that have had 24 months to come to a conclusion. All these little bits of evidence point to the same conclusion... He just isn't a very good player and is a shadow of what he was after a couple of very good seasons at this level. He needs to work hard to turn it around. Personally I don't think we should waste time trying to coach a player's career back on track when he isn't even ours and has (again, supported by very crude stats) been shown to not be making the same waves he once did a couple of years ago. But that's just my somewhat ignorant opinion I won't struggle at all, thanks. Successive managers have given him practically full seasons according to your stats. Your stats don't also show where he was played and with what remit, nor how the teams he was in were performing etc. Indeed it does not suggest the bigger picture that we all know, that in his current season his team has been under performing as a whole - not just Butterfield. You may be a student, but students don't always turn into good employees. You analyse like dog poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StudentOwl Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 1 hour ago, a_weishaupt said: Your stats don't also show where he was played and with what remit, nor how the teams he was in were performing etc. 1 hour ago, StudentOwl said: I know, I know... It doesn't account for style of play of the teams he's representing and the role he's being asked to play but like I said... I know it's a very very crude measurement. Cheers for repeating what I said, it's appreciated I look forward to being proved wrong over the coming weeks and months. If not, don't worry, I won't bother asking for an apology for personally insulting me and implying that because I have an opinion of a player that you don't agree with, I won't make a good employee in whatever career I go into. I know you didn't mean it, because that'd be a daft thing to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twaddle Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Given all the information opinion that have been so far been posted on this thread it is certainly difficult to understand the reasons for him lacking what someone a few years ago thought he was worth paying a hell of a lot of money for. I did think it was good to see he did very much have enthusiasm in his congratulations to Atdhe the other night ... and it was genuine. So I don't think he has entirely lost enthusiasm for the game. Lets see what Jos can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogbad Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 He doesn't even make the bench today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveger Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveger Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, mogbad said: He doesn't even make the bench today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigash_swfc Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 First chance Jos gets, he's not involved. Zero intensity, Zero potential. Lads probably running on Zero confidence too but it shouldn't be to our cost. Get rid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouncing Owl Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, bigash_swfc said: First chance Jos gets, he's not involved. Zero intensity, Zero potential. Lads probably running on Zero confidence too but it shouldn't be to our cost. Get rid Lost his mojo that lad. I’ve seen him for the dingles and the dog botherers and he was decent. This could be a common theme with players moving forward with having too much, too soon. Defo get rid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 It's way way way too early to judge him Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMacLean Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, bigash_swfc said: First chance Jos gets, he's not involved. Zero intensity, Zero potential. Lads probably running on Zero confidence too but it shouldn't be to our cost. Get rid I saw it said that Jos was showing his faith in Sean Clare by bringing him on the final minutes of the derby when Butterfield was a safer option.Maybe he genuinely just doesn't rate Butterfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls77 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, @owlstalk said: It's way way way too early to judge him Over 4 months is more than enough time, terrible signing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@owlstalk Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Owls77 said: Over 4 months is more than enough time, terrible signing! Nope Way too early to judge Let's see what Jos makes of him and how he gets him playing Owlstalk Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socialist_Owl Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Owls77 said: Over 4 months is more than enough time, terrible signing! Nonsense. Would love to see what Jos can get out of him. I'm not going to condemn any player for being mismanaged under CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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