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Mourinho, Carvalhal and 3rd season syndrome


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This article on Mourinho made me think of Carlos for 2 reasons: His use of periodisation (described below) and his 3rd season syndrome, where the players become wise to the approach and the charisma wears off.

 

"This is the basis of the theory of periodisation, as preached by Vítor Frade, the Portuguese academic who has been a huge influence over a generation of Portuguese coaches and worked as Mourinho’s director of methodology at Porto.

It means no drills to improve stamina or discrete skills; it means no gym work unless a player is recovering from injury; and it means no automisations."

 

May also explain the lack of fitness with us this year and Chelsea the year Mourinho was sacked. Whole article is here. Anyone else see a connection?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jan/18/jose-mourinho-method-charisma-instability-manchester-united

Edited by vulture_squadron
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2 minutes ago, matthefish2002 said:

In modern football not many managers have a shelf life of more then 2 seasons.

Not sure why anyone thought Carlos was a team builder with his CV and the type and age of players signed.

To be fair I don't think Carlos was told to anything other than buy the players that will get us to the premier leauge in two seasons as I promised the fans. 

It didn't work out. Should have gone after the Huddersfield game when the project had failed.

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1 minute ago, pazowl55 said:

To be fair I don't think Carlos was told to anything other than buy the players that will get us to the premier leauge in two seasons as I promised the fans. 

It didn't work out. Should have gone after the Huddersfield game when the project had failed.

Agree. When he signed on for this season I thought at least he knows the squad and where the holes are but like last year he had no desire to fill them!

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A lot of Portugese managers have been fortunate to trade on Mourinho succeess. Many have landed at clubs where they have been backed financially. Many good other managers form other countries would have loved opportunities they have had. Think success has been due to marketing of managers from Portugal by Agents, actually believe they are now well behind some countries when comes to coaching and scientific methods being applied. On Sky sports their is an article about science being used by premier teams. In Germany great strides have also been made.

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Just now, vulture_squadron said:

Agree. When he signed on for this season I thought at least he knows the squad and where the holes are but like last year he had no desire to fill them!

It was almost like he couldn't believe he still had a job and he went to pot.

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5 hours ago, Mr Farrell said:

No no no.

 

Jose is a world renowned Manager.

 

Carlos is a fake. It just took us a lot longer than his other 14 Clubs to out him.

 

 

 

Lets not completely re write history.

 

He gave us a great season in 2015/16 and things would have been very different if we got over the line.

 

He doesn't seem to be a long term answer but pathetic jibes like calling him fake serve no purpose.

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43 minutes ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

Lets not completely re write history.

 

He gave us a great season in 2015/16 and things would have been very different if we got over the line.

 

He doesn't seem to be a long term answer but pathetic jibes like calling him fake serve no purpose.

i'm afraid i agree more with mr. farrell, i do see distinct limitations in him, i do see rigid thinking, with no alternative planning whatsoever other than becoming more withdrawn and defensive, i do see him as a snake oil salesman, i do see him blaming the players, then the fans, then himself (oh! hold on, NO! not the last one, he was never to blame), i do see people trying to understand what he's saying and think they're failing due to carlos' english, when actually double dutch was the chosen language.

whether you, or i agree matters not, it seems that the players didn't agree and (for me, and whatshisname at the lane) they decided it was time for him to go, and though i hate the thought of anyone wearing a wednesday shirt not giving 100% every time, i have to say on this occasion, i think they were correct in their actions.

we did have a good 15/16 season, however after the play off final no show, he'd have been stood in front of my desk explaining our wembley performance (with his job on the line) and more so what tactical changes did he actually make in that final after we went one down?, at best he'd have come away with a manager appointed over him, which to my knowledge was the original plan. 

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Love all this tactical shıt. 

 

A fascinating new study of Pep Guardiola by Spanish journalist Marti Perarnau reveals how a plot hatched by the manager in his training ground office just hours before a crucial Clasico game against Real Madrid changed Lionel Messi's career forever.

May 2, 2009. The Santiago Bernabéu stadium, Barcelona against Real Madrid. The scene was set for Pep Guardiola to unleash his secret weapon.

Ten minutes into the game, with the score at 0-0, Pep gave the nod Lionel to Messi and Samuel Eto'o. The two players had to swap positions. Eto'o, usually a centre-forward, moved to the right wing and Messi, a right winger, took up position in the centre of the field - but playing deeper, more like an attacking midfielder. Christoph Metzelder and Fabio Cannavaro, the Madrid centre-backs, were lost. They had no idea how to counteract the change.

Whilst researching this book I had the chance to meet Metzelder over dinner in Dusseldorf. That astonishing day was still fresh in his memory. "Fabio and I looked at each other. 'What do we do? Do we follow him to the midfield or stay deep?' We didn't have a clue."

 

The false 9 would go down in history as one of the more extraordinary of Guardiola's innovations, not because he invented it but because he was able to redefine the position through an exceptional player like Messi. How did he do it?

It was the day before the match - a holiday Friday. Guardiola had stayed at the stadium to study his opponents. This was a well-established routine, which he continues today at Bayern. He spends two days analysing the team they are about to face, looking for strengths and weaknesses. He reviews entire matches as well as sections of the videos his assistants have picked out for him. Domènec Torrent and Carles Planchart, who are now at Bayern, provided this kind of information for him back then, too.

The day before the game, he shuts himself in his office, puts on some gentle music and thinks about his approach to the match. Where should they attack their opponents? What is the best way to dominate?

"I sit down and watch two or three videos. I take notes. That's when that flash of inspiration comes - the moment that makes sense of my profession. The instant I know, for sure, that I've got it. I know how to win. It only lasts for about a minute, but it's the moment that my job becomes truly meaningful.'

When he talked about this moment of magic he was probably thinking back to May 1, 2009. To that moment when he showed the world that he had found a new way to beat Real Madrid. Having watched a previous match between the two teams, Pep noticed how much pressure Real's midfielders Guti, Fernando Gago and Royston Drenthe put on his own players, Xavi and Yaya Touré. He also noticed the tendency of the central defenders, Cannavaro and Metzelder, to hang back near Iker Casillas' goalmouth. This left a vast expanse of space between them and the Madrid midfielders.

It was 10pm and Pep was alone in his office. Everyone else, including his assistants, had gone home. He sat in that dimly lit room imagining Messi moving freely across that enormous empty space in the Bernabéu. He saw him face-to-face with Metzelder and Cannavaro, the two players frozen on the edge of the box, unsure whether or not to chase the Argentine. The image was crystal clear and he picked up the phone and dialled Messi's number.

"Leo, it's Pep. I've just seen something important. Really important. Why don't you come over. Now, please."

At 10.30pm there is a gentle knock at Pep's office door and a 21-year-old Leo Messi comes in. The coach shows him the video, pausing it to point out the empty space. He wants his player to make that space his own. From now on it will be ‘the Messi zone'.

"Tomorrow in Madrid I want you to start on the wing as usual, but the minute I give you a sign I want you to move away from the midfielders and into the space I just showed you. The minute Xavi or Andrés Iniesta break between the lines and give you the ball I want you to head straight for Casillas' goal."

It was a secret between the two. Nobody else would know about the plans until Pep explained to Tito Vilanova the following day in the team hotel. Just minutes before kick-off, Guardiola took Xavi and Iniesta to one side and told them.

"When you see Leo in the space between the lines down the middle, don't hesitate. Give him the ball. Like we did in Gijón."

That day in May 2009, the strategy worked perfectly and Barça destroyed Real Madrid, winning by six goals to two. Messi had become a false No 9.

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35 minutes ago, dnhc said:

i'm afraid i agree more with mr. farrell, i do see distinct limitations in him, i do see rigid thinking, with no alternative planning whatsoever other than becoming more withdrawn and defensive, i do see him as a snake oil salesman, i do see him blaming the players, then the fans, then himself (oh! hold on, NO! not the last one, he was never to blame), i do see people trying to understand what he's saying and think they're failing due to carlos' english, when actually double dutch was the chosen language.

whether you, or i agree matters not, it seems that the players didn't agree and (for me, and whatshisname at the lane) they decided it was time for him to go, and though i hate the thought of anyone wearing a wednesday shirt not giving 100% every time, i have to say on this occasion, i think they were correct in their actions.

we did have a good 15/16 season, however after the play off final no show, he'd have been stood in front of my desk explaining our wembley performance (with his job on the line) and more so what tactical changes did he actually make in that final after we went one down?, at best he'd have come away with a manager appointed over him, which to my knowledge was the original plan. 

 

He struggled to react to the playoff defeat and became far too stubborn.

 

It does hint towards him being a short term fix although its baffling to see how far he retreated.

 

Although he did have favourites and didn't use resources he can't take all the blame.

 

If the regime was too slack then players taking advantage and not performing isn't good enough.

 

Its a shame how it ended but lets move on and try and take a balanced look at his reign.

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7 hours ago, Mr Farrell said:

No no no.

 

Jose is a world renowned Manager.

 

Carlos is a fake. It just took us a lot longer than his other 14 Clubs to out him.

 

 

How can ya say that with 2 top 6 finishes .his 3rd season wasnt good granted .

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1 hour ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

Lets not completely re write history.

 

He gave us a great season in 2015/16 and things would have been very different if we got over the line.

 

He doesn't seem to be a long term answer but pathetic jibes like calling him fake serve no purpose.

It only time he comes on owlstslk to slate somebody mate

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1 hour ago, dnhc said:

i'm afraid i agree more with mr. farrell, i do see distinct limitations in him, i do see rigid thinking, with no alternative planning whatsoever other than becoming more withdrawn and defensive, i do see him as a snake oil salesman, i do see him blaming the players, then the fans, then himself (oh! hold on, NO! not the last one, he was never to blame), i do see people trying to understand what he's saying and think they're failing due to carlos' english, when actually double dutch was the chosen language.

whether you, or i agree matters not, it seems that the players didn't agree and (for me, and whatshisname at the lane) they decided it was time for him to go, and though i hate the thought of anyone wearing a wednesday shirt not giving 100% every time, i have to say on this occasion, i think they were correct in their actions.

we did have a good 15/16 season, however after the play off final no show, he'd have been stood in front of my desk explaining our wembley performance (with his job on the line) and more so what tactical changes did he actually make in that final after we went one down?, at best he'd have come away with a manager appointed over him, which to my knowledge was the original plan. 

 

Well put.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Always be a shocking Manager in my book, no amount of bleating from a couple of posters will change my view.

 

Jossy on the other hand shows all the signs of being the real deal.

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1 minute ago, Mr Farrell said:

 

Well put.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Always be a shocking Manager in my book, no amount of bleating from a couple of posters will change my view.

 

Jossy on the other hand shows all the signs of being the real deal.

So you thought he was shocking when you stood there at Wembley?

 

Thats assuming you actually went, of course. 

 

 

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