Villas-Boas

[dobbo]

5 hours ago, Quist said:

I am glad we did not get him. Failing with Chelsea and Tottenham two well funded clubs does not augur well for a spell in Championship.

 

Not as simple as that, never had a chance at Chelsea due to the players and he certainly never failed at Spurs, they had the record points total for them in the Prem under him at the time.

[bigash_swfc]

He's waiting for the Villa job.

 

Aston Villas-Boas

[Quist]

9 minutes ago, dobbo said:

 

Not as simple as that, never had a chance at Chelsea due to the players and he certainly never failed at Spurs, they had the record points total for them in the Prem under him at the time.

I am aware he tried to change things at Chelsea and he did not take players with him. Does he not have to change things at Hillsborough?

At Tottenham he spent an absolute fortune on players and there was one good player. The others were not up to it. I live in the South and know at least half a dozen Spurs fans who attend regularly and none were sorry to see him leave. we finished high in league last season but we all knew it was unsatisfactory. Sometimes you have to look beyond a points total. If they did that well why did they sack him?

The facts you give tell me there is enough to not want him as a manager..

[dobbo]

18 minutes ago, Quist said:

I am aware he tried to change things at Chelsea and he did not take players with him. Does he not have to change things at Hillsborough?

At Tottenham he spent an absolute fortune on players and there was one good player. The others were not up to it. I live in the South and know at least half a dozen Spurs fans who attend regularly and none were sorry to see him leave. we finished high in league last season but we all knew it was unsatisfactory. Sometimes you have to look beyond a points total. If they did that well why did they sack him?

The facts you give tell me there is enough to not want him as a manager..

 

Difficult to comment on anything Chelsea as we don't know what happened, it was a unique situation post Mourinho, he never really had a chance trying to change his players, similar to Moyes at ManU

 

Why do 50% of managers lose their jobs? It was a harsh, short-term mindset sacking not made by a 'football' man

Forgive me for disregarding the opinions of some random football fans I don't know, especially Spurs fans, but they are a strange breed. It set them back a few years until they got lucky with Pochetino

[Guest mkowl]

He is a legend

 

Well in his own head 

[Quist]

30 minutes ago, dobbo said:

 

Difficult to comment on anything Chelsea as we don't know what happened, it was a unique situation post Mourinho, he never really had a chance trying to change his players, similar to Moyes at ManU

 

Why do 50% of managers lose their jobs? It was a harsh, short-term mindset sacking not made by a 'football' man

Forgive me for disregarding the opinions of some random football fans I don't know, especially Spurs fans, but they are a strange breed. It set them back a few years until they got lucky with Pochetino

There is absolutely no solid argument in anything you have said. At Chelsea it was well documented he was brought in to update squad set about it and lost dressing room senior players rebelled. the players may have been wrong but he lost job. At Spurs was disliked and three of themI know are season ticket holders and sensible guys all I can say it was the similar feeling Wednesday fans had for Dave Jones

[Ronio]

Beggars belief how he didn't finish the race. 

[myHero]

10 hours ago, Oliver said:

 

If only we'd waited a week......

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/42633218

Another promissing career ended by injury.....

 

I bet AVB is kicking himself during the periods of sobriety when the pain killers ware off the he didn't pick up the phone to talk to Dejphon. 

 

 

We are Lucky to have Luhukay 

 

[dobbo]

18 minutes ago, Quist said:

There is absolutely no solid argument in anything you have said. At Chelsea it was well documented he was brought in to update squad set about it and lost dressing room senior players rebelled. the players may have been wrong but he lost job. At Spurs was disliked and three of themI know are season ticket holders and sensible guys all I can say it was the similar feeling Wednesday fans had for Dave Jones

 

It's not that the players were wrong, they were an ageing Mourinho team that needed breaking up, whoever did it would be on a hiding to nothing given how successful they were under Mourinho

 

Back to the 'my mate the Spurs fan reckons...' argument, so i'll agree to disagree

 

AVB is a victim of coming to England with a huge reputation and being shot down by the media at the first opportunity, happens all the time

[prowl]

Good job our medical team weren't involved they'd have diagnosed him suffering with toothache.

[Prendo's boots]

We've dodged a bullet there I reckon - wouldnt that have just put the icing on the cake for us...signing a manager who couldnt take over for a while due to injury!!   The tide has turned...Go Jos! 

[Ante's Bubbly]

Our new manager will need a strong backbone, with reinforced shirts to deflect the knives, when things get a bit tricky. Jos is hopefully that man. He is hard on himself, hard on his players and very hard on the opposition, but likes to relax after every victory with a dutch delicacy known as a "Shmoke & a pancake".

 

Sorry to hear about Villas Boas injury. Does this mean he will be pulling out of the Yin Tong table tennis tournament in China later this spring? I was looking forward to seeing that. We were trying to get tickets for the tournament which is known affectionately in the TT world as the Yin Tong Ping Pong.

 

Gutted!

 

 

Shmoke and a pancake!

[Ante's Bubbly]

14 hours ago, Quist said:

There is absolutely no solid argument in anything you have said. At Chelsea it was well documented he was brought in to update squad set about it and lost dressing room senior players rebelled. the players may have been wrong but he lost job. At Spurs was disliked and three of themI know are season ticket holders and sensible guys all I can say it was the similar feeling Wednesday fans had for Dave Jones

 

Sorry but I have to agree with Dobbo here, AVB was definitely on a hiding to nothing at Chelsea by having to follow the special one, as was well documented at the time. The fact that the next batch of players revolted against the special one and got him sacked kind of underlines the point.  

 

At Spurs (my second team since i was a kid 40-50 years ago) there was an unfortunate player buying system in place, which totally scuppered AVB's management, style of play, authority over players and relationship with the players. The Spurs press department sold off their best player in Bale for £85M and in an effort to deflect blame and raise expectations with the fans they said that AVB would be given the full amount to re-invest in the team. What actually happened was that Chairman Levy and "Technical Director" Baldini, brought in the 7 new players that they had chosen and AVB tried to stop them from signing at least four of the 7 because he did want them as they did not fit in with the style of play that he wanted to follow.and had earmarked Hulk, Joao Moutinho, David Villa and Willian (who was supposed to have agreed a verbal contract with Spurs and was ready to sign), but was overruled by the "Transfer Committee", who were claiming that they had sold Elvis and bought the Beatles. The fans reply was similar to that of Boas, they had sold Elvis and bought the Rutles. 

 

I could never imagine AVB managing us at this stage in our club's development and particularly as our own method of player recruitment seems to have very little to do with the head coach or manager's precise requirements and could be described as ad hoc at best. Football managers are not people that play real life versions of games like "Football" manager", or "Fifa X" (X = insert year), where you have a pool of players rated with different values for tackling, short pass accuracy, long pass accuracy etc, otherwise anybody, including chairmen, "technical directors", CEOs, owners, owners friends and family members, could all have a go at putting a team together and get rid of the people who actually know what they are doing altogether and appoint somebody to organise the players keep fit sessions, practising of free kicks, corners, throw ins and match tactics. Oh yes we have tried our little version of that already haven't we and along with teams like Spurs, Newcastle and Liverpool, all of whom have far bigger pools of money to dip into, far more stability and far more of everything else that you might need to make a success of such a system and still failed. 

 

I personally hope that now, Jos, our new "manager" and the bloke who gets blamed and replaced when things go wrong, is actually allowed to make the mistakes that he will get the sack for if the system fails, but is allowed to dictate what the system is. In other words he should be responsible for the club buying only the players he wants, selling players he does not want, choosing the team, the formations, tactics, style of play, attitude and discipline of the players and so on. The chairman, CEO, technical director, owner, his friends and family can all deal with whatever none footballing decisions are made and be allowed to play, "Football Manager", "Fifa X", or whatever other software related games, before, after or during the real games if that is wht they want to do, but leave the real thing to the experts. Real football management is not something that people should attempt try at home.

 

Good luck tomorrow Jos, I really hope you can enjoy a happy Shmoke and a pancake, Stroopwafel or whatever after the game tomorrow with the satisfying feeling of having won your first game in charge. UTO!

 

Shmoke and a pancake time!

[Quist]

15 hours ago, dobbo said:

 

It's not that the players were wrong, they were an ageing Mourinho team that needed breaking up, whoever did it would be on a hiding to nothing given how successful they were under Mourinho

 

Back to the 'my mate the Spurs fan reckons...' argument, so i'll agree to disagree

 

AVB is a victim of coming to England with a huge reputation and being shot down by the media at the first opportunity, happens all the time

No AVB was simply not up to job, he is a third tier country manager. If anybody is daft enough to employ him again in country you will see how well he does.

[Quist]

1 hour ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

Sorry but I have to agree with Dobbo here, AVB was definitely on a hiding to nothing at Chelsea by having to follow the special one, as was well documented at the time. The fact that the next batch of players revolted against the special one and got him sacked kind of underlines the point.  

 

At Spurs (my second team since i was a kid 40-50 years ago) there was an unfortunate player buying system in place, which totally scuppered AVB's management, style of play, authority over players and relationship with the players. The Spurs press department sold off their best player in Bale for £85M and in an effort to deflect blame and raise expectations with the fans they said that AVB would be given the full amount to re-invest in the team. What actually happened was that Chairman Levy and "Technical Director" Baldini, brought in the 7 new players that they had chosen and AVB tried to stop them from signing at least four of the 7 because he did want them as they did not fit in with the style of play that he wanted to follow.and had earmarked Hulk, Joao Moutinho, David Villa and Willian (who was supposed to have agreed a verbal contract with Spurs and was ready to sign), but was overruled by the "Transfer Committee", who were claiming that they had sold Elvis and bought the Beatles. The fans reply was similar to that of Boas, they had sold Elvis and bought the Rutles. 

 

I could never imagine AVB managing us at this stage in our club's development and particularly as our own method of player recruitment seems to have very little to do with the head coach or manager's precise requirements and could be described as ad hoc at best. Football managers are not people that play real life versions of games like "Football" manager", or "Fifa X" (X = insert year), where you have a pool of players rated with different values for tackling, short pass accuracy, long pass accuracy etc, otherwise anybody, including chairmen, "technical directors", CEOs, owners, owners friends and family members, could all have a go at putting a team together and get rid of the people who actually know what they are doing altogether and appoint somebody to organise the players keep fit sessions, practising of free kicks, corners, throw ins and match tactics. Oh yes we have tried our little version of that already haven't we and along with teams like Spurs, Newcastle and Liverpool, all of whom have far bigger pools of money to dip into, far more stability and far more of everything else that you might need to make a success of such a system and still failed. 

 

I personally hope that now, Jos, our new "manager" and the bloke who gets blamed and replaced when things go wrong, is actually allowed to make the mistakes that he will get the sack for if the system fails, but is allowed to dictate what the system is. In other words he should be responsible for the club buying only the players he wants, selling players he does not want, choosing the team, the formations, tactics, style of play, attitude and discipline of the players and so on. The chairman, CEO, technical director, owner, his friends and family can all deal with whatever none footballing decisions are made and be allowed to play, "Football Manager", "Fifa X", or whatever other software related games, before, after or during the real games if that is wht they want to do, but leave the real thing to the experts. Real football management is not something that people should attempt try at home.

 

Good luck tomorrow Jos, I really hope you can enjoy a happy Shmoke and a pancake, Stroopwafel or whatever after the game tomorrow with the satisfying feeling of having won your first game in charge. UTO!

 

Shmoke and a pancake time!

Fully agree with the last paragraph. I agree with second last paragraph except I think you underestimate the influence CC had over recruitment. After roeder went we only bought players who he wanted. If they were beyong our budget he did not get them. Otherwise you are correct.

I agree Villa Boas was brought in to update the team at Chelsea he did fail the examination bt you are correct it was a difficult one.

At Spurs he did have a say in who was bought but he was part of committee that decided who to bring in. He was not well liked for whatever reason and there was no outcry when he left. I think managing in England is very difficult and if you struggle at a real big club you will struggle at one without same resources. i think he has been lucky manager to have been given opportunities he has been. I watch Spurs too my next game is the game against Man Utd at end of month. I saw them beat AFC Wimbledon on Sunday it was £30 for a amily of 4 we were in VIP cushioned seats on half way line. My young lad likes Spurs so take him to some games. I know a fair bit about Spurs too.

[Ante's Bubbly]

58 minutes ago, Quist said:

Fully agree with the last paragraph. I agree with second last paragraph except I think you underestimate the influence CC had over recruitment. After roeder went we only bought players who he wanted. If they were beyong our budget he did not get them. Otherwise you are correct.

I agree Villa Boas was brought in to update the team at Chelsea he did fail the examination bt you are correct it was a difficult one.

At Spurs he did have a say in who was bought but he was part of committee that decided who to bring in. He was not well liked for whatever reason and there was no outcry when he left. I think managing in England is very difficult and if you struggle at a real big club you will struggle at one without same resources. i think he has been lucky manager to have been given opportunities he has been. I watch Spurs too my next game is the game against Man Utd at end of month. I saw them beat AFC Wimbledon on Sunday it was £30 for a amily of 4 we were in VIP cushioned seats on half way line. My young lad likes Spurs so take him to some games. I know a fair bit about Spurs too.

 

Don't you think that after avoiding the question of how much influence he had on player purchases, Carlos intentionally gave the game away when he told the press the story of how we ended up getting Winnall out and Butterfield on loan instead of Craig Bryson? Carlos is quoted below on his surprise when Chansiri phoned him to ask if he wanted Craig Bryson, because Chansiri believed a loan deal might be possible, don't forget we were desperate for a championship promotion quality centre half at the time and a winger with pace, both of which Carlos had mentioned publicly as being wanted.

 

"It was such a big surprise that I said chairman, we want (Bryson), but we wanted the player in the past and he will cost a lot of money.

"Also his salary is very high, it will be difficult to achieve this player. (He said) no it won't, because he is available to loan. I said 'are you serious?' Give me some time to check because I need to see if Bryson has any problems, like surgery.

"This was in the morning. I think after lunch - during this period I was analysing Bryson - he contacted me again and said we've had contact from Jacob's agent asking if we want him. (I said) we want him, of course, but how? (Do) they want to sell? (He said) no it can be on loan. I was surprised again".

 

In other words, Carlos did not ask Chansiri to sign Bryson or Butterfield, only the type of player required as back up for Bannan had been discussed.

 

Can you imagine what Ron Atkinson would have said when he told the chairman he wanted to buy like Phil King, Danny Wilson, Roland Nielson, Carlton Palmer and John Sheridan if the chairman had then said, "what about this player and that player instead?". The same with Megson when he signed Ben Marshall, Antonio and Semedo. He actually visited all three players and talked them into coming to SWFC because he had a vision of them, their styles of play, their effort and personalities playing for him in his team and winning us promotion 

 

All of those players signed to play not just for Wednesday but for the man who mad the Wednesday team play the way they did. The manager. Not the chairman, not the CEO, not the technical director or the head coach, but the man in charge of the football. Any one of the others can agree contract details, wages etc, but the only one that should decide exactly who is right for the job is the manager. As much respect and thanks I have for the man who foots the bills or makes good business decisions, the only reason i want a player to join the club that I support is that he wants to play football for us in the style and manner that the manager wants him to play. 

 

I have little respect or interest in players that have joined the club because they have been promised big wages, perks, special arrangements or have bought into the chairman, CEO's or technical directors visions for the future. I just want players to do whatever they have to do for the manager, the team and ultimately the club and the fans. I do not think that there will be too many of the players that are here now coming back in 30 or 40 years time, or staying on to live the rest of their lives in Sheffield, because the majority do not show the same desire as players like Semedo and co.

 

As for the AVB argument with Spurs, I totally agree that it was never going to work, but purely because of the way Spurs were set up at the time and not because AVB was a poor manager. 

 

Also your comment about AVB being a third tier country manager is way short of the mark considering what he has achieved and that Portuguese managers were top of so many leagues around the world recently. I cannot remember there being any English or even British managers on the list. 

[Socialist_Owl]

19 hours ago, Quist said:

I am aware he tried to change things at Chelsea and he did not take players with him. Does he not have to change things at Hillsborough?

At Tottenham he spent an absolute fortune on players and there was one good player. The others were not up to it. I live in the South and know at least half a dozen Spurs fans who attend regularly and none were sorry to see him leave. we finished high in league last season but we all knew it was unsatisfactory. Sometimes you have to look beyond a points total. If they did that well why did they sack him?

The facts you give tell me there is enough to not want him as a manager..

Too much old guard entrenched at Chelsea - but he tried to change that.  Didn't survive.

 

And i'd dare say he kickstarted the Tottenham mk2 that Pochettino took on and improved.

[Quist]

2 minutes ago, Ante's Bubbly said:

 

Don't you think that after avoiding the question of how much influence he had on player purchases, Carlos intentionally gave the game away when he told the press the story of how we ended up getting Winnall out and Butterfield on loan instead of Craig Bryson? Carlos is quoted below on his surprise when Chansiri phoned him to ask if he wanted Craig Bryson, because Chansiri believed a loan deal might be possible, don't forget we were desperate for a championship promotion quality centre half at the time and a winger with pace, both of which Carlos had mentioned publicly as being wanted.

 

"It was such a big surprise that I said chairman, we want (Bryson), but we wanted the player in the past and he will cost a lot of money.

"Also his salary is very high, it will be difficult to achieve this player. (He said) no it won't, because he is available to loan. I said 'are you serious?' Give me some time to check because I need to see if Bryson has any problems, like surgery.

"This was in the morning. I think after lunch - during this period I was analysing Bryson - he contacted me again and said we've had contact from Jacob's agent asking if we want him. (I said) we want him, of course, but how? (Do) they want to sell? (He said) no it can be on loan. I was surprised again".

 

In other words, Carlos did not ask Chansiri to sign Bryson or Butterfield, only the type of player required as back up for Bannan had been discussed.

 

Can you imagine what Ron Atkinson would have said when he told the chairman he wanted to buy like Phil King, Danny Wilson, Roland Nielson, Carlton Palmer and John Sheridan if the chairman had then said, "what about this player and that player instead?". The same with Megson when he signed Ben Marshall, Antonio and Semedo. He actually visited all three players and talked them into coming to SWFC because he had a vision of them, their styles of play, their effort and personalities playing for him in his team and winning us promotion 

 

All of those players signed to play not just for Wednesday but for the man who mad the Wednesday team play the way they did. The manager. Not the chairman, not the CEO, not the technical director or the head coach, but the man in charge of the football. Any one of the others can agree contract details, wages etc, but the only one that should decide exactly who is right for the job is the manager. As much respect and thanks I have for the man who foots the bills or makes good business decisions, the only reason i want a player to join the club that I support is that he wants to play football for us in the style and manner that the manager wants him to play. 

 

I have little respect or interest in players that have joined the club because they have been promised big wages, perks, special arrangements or have bought into the chairman, CEO's or technical directors visions for the future. I just want players to do whatever they have to do for the manager, the team and ultimately the club and the fans. I do not think that there will be too many of the players that are here now coming back in 30 or 40 years time, or staying on to live the rest of their lives in Sheffield, because the majority do not show the same desire as players like Semedo and co.

 

As for the AVB argument with Spurs, I totally agree that it was never going to work, but purely because of the way Spurs were set up at the time and not because AVB was a poor manager. 

 

Also your comment about AVB being a third tier country manager is way short of the mark considering what he has achieved and that Portuguese managers were top of so many leagues around the world recently. I cannot remember there being any English or even British managers on the list. 

I think the discussion you quoted there illustrates clearly CC had control of who came in and went. He was asked if he wanted bryson or Butterfirld in exchange for Winnall and he did. Derby obviously approached us with an offer of a swap deal and it was taken to CC. It did not impact finances as Winnall went and one would arrive. CC had control of who joined and who left.

Accept that players did used to sign for managers but think finance has over took that now. The financial scandal resulted in contract negotiation being taken away from managers and you could see why its a pity so agree with you on that point.

As for AVB I know alot more about Spurs situation than I have said and trust me we escaped a catastrophe. Yes the Portugese manager thing is rather interesting amazing how they land at good clubs who have large financial backing. I wonder why this happens?

[Quist]

2 minutes ago, Socialist_Owl said:

Too much old guard entrenched at Chelsea - but he tried to change that.  Didn't survive.

 

And i'd dare say he kickstarted the Tottenham mk2 that Pochettino took on and improved.

Did the old guard win anything after he left Chelsea?

No he did not start Tottenham mark 2 look at who joined and who left after he went.

[Shetland Owl]

Not fit enough