The final straw

[thewookieisdown]

I still think it's too early to say.  We may be about to collapse into League 1.  But on the other hand I can imagine us in March with a new manager in place.  Lambert would do for me.  Perhaps a shorter injury list.  A few wins - enough to keep us out the bottom six.  Maybe even a bit of a cup run, unlikely as it currently seems that we will get past Carlisle.  A new CEO who keeps her head down and gets on with sorting some of the problems we all know about.  A chairman who has learned something from the failings of 2017.

 

I don't say that's going to happen.  This has been a pretty dreadful day (for me the only saving grace is that we were away for NYE and I missed the game).  And of course even if it does happen, it's a million miles away from where we wanted to be last summer.  But since in the short run there is absolutely nothing I can do about any of this, I'm not giving up hope, yet.

[Johnny Concrete]

2 minutes ago, qantas said:

 

Main advisor about what?...everything?........lets say he was, how do you know?

 

He advised him on alot of things, even smoking, I know Carlos used to pick up a sleeve of Jin Lings from Page Hall to keep Chansiri sweet.

[coopswfc76]

29 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

 

 

Re the training pitch there has been (for many years) discussion about the middlewood road training pitches, even down to the depth of them, and whether or not they contribute to inuries at the club 

The pitch and scoreboard etc are all improved greatly - although both are sound investments for anyone wanting to make money (nothing wrong with that)

Some fans aren't happy? There's not been so much as a peep from the fans until recently really mate and even then it's fair to say carlos and Mr Chansiri have enjoyed the most patient, tolerant reaction to a dreadful run of events on and off the pitch in living history.

 

 

Training pitch you will no better than me but there was never any complaints in the 80's or early 90's when they trained there so what's changed for the worse?

 

Regarding discontent there's been some moaning about CC since he was appointed even last season when we finished 4th now let that sink in moaning because we finished 4th in the 2nd tier, Yes we un-workable 2nd leg of play offs up but a 1 off cup match it can happen. 

[Guest Willow Owl]

1 minute ago, @owlstalk said:

ha ha no problem at all mate and I know what you mean and I've not even got any alcohol in the house to turn to..

 

 

 

Only problem, our lass just come in and made day even worse by opening a can. 

The cheek of it

 

[@owlstalk]

Just now, coopswfc76 said:

 

Training pitch you will no better than me but there was never any complaints in the 80's or early 90's when they trained there so what's changed for the worse?

 

Regarding discontent there's been some moaning about CC since he was appointed even last season when we finished 4th now let that sink in moaning because we finished 4th in the 2nd tier, Yes we un-workable 2nd leg of play offs up but a 1 off cup match it can happen. 

 

I hear you 

Re Training Ground - not sure like I say it's just something that's been discussed for the last god knows how many years. Not sure if there has been any change to the Middlewood Pitches or if they've resolved any rumoured problems so can't say

Re Carlos - When we lost the playoff final at Wembley some fans wanted him gone but just the odd one or two compared to how many others wanted him to remain and push on

Last season after the Huddersfield game I think it's safe to say that the numbers grew of those who thought he shouldn't take the third year but take the third year he did and now we're in a pickle

Either way the fans of Wednesday have given Carlos and Mr Chansiri more time, patience and tolerance than any other chairman/manager combo in our history in my opinion

 

 

[Daz]

6 minutes ago, GoldGigsChris said:

I can't get my head around Chansiri. I believe he's an honourable religious soul, but I question his judgement and business acumen.

 

For me Carlos should have gone a year ago, and the delay has put us in this situation on the pitch and league. Carlos was obviously DCs main advisor, which to anyone is a conflict of interest. This was shown in DCs statement on the 24th. I hope DC has since realised that Carlos' reasons for leaving may not have been what he told Chansiri and learned from this.

 

DCs first consideration for a manager seems to have been Steve McLaren, who would be the least popular appointment I can remember. Luckily the press heard about this and us the fans showed DC how this news would be received.

 

Then today he appoints a CEO (which is well overdue), but he picks someone who is disconnected from Sheffield (not even English) and was hated by the majority of her last clubs fans.

 

Its almost like he's trying to fail.

 

I can't agree at all that he's trying to fail - this was always a financial investment for him and as with any investor in a FL club, the only way you make money is to get to the Premier League. I'm sure that is what he is trying to do and to be fair, we got close twice, based on investing in a squad which finished 6th and 4th.

 

I lost confidence in CC based on the Huddersfield play off debacle, followed by the PNE game which showed he was not going to change his safety first approach. In some ways, it's admirable that DC showed such loyalty to CC, and I think we all hoped it would turn around and that stability would work in our favor. So, even though I disagreed with CC getting so much time, I can understand DC taking his time.

 

Ultimately, most of the 'issues' with DC would not be a feature if we were doing well on the pitch. I'm not that fussed about badges or stripes as playing well and doing well are so much more important. It's fair that we've been affected by poor tactics and too many injuries, but I think just like CC, I think a number of these players have become disillusioned after 2 play-off failures and a string of poor results.

 

So, DC has 2 big decisions - the first  - appointing a CEO - difficult to make a case why he would appoint a CEO with so little experience and so much fan 'baggage' at a time when he needs fans to buy in because we are frustrated with performances and results. I hope she works out, but a surprising appointment. The next big decision is the manager. I think we need one urgently, and it has to be someone who is a task master who will drag the players out of this slump. A quietly spoken manager who makes it too comfortable for the players is likely to fail. We also need someone who knows this league and who MUST do a lot of wheeling and dealing in this window. If we have to sell a couple of players to reinvest, then so be it and if we have to terminate the contracts of any trouble causers then so be it. However, I do believe that a good manager can get us organized, build our confidence back up and with players returning from injury, finish strongly. It's not about expensive players, it's more about motivation, belief, organization and good/flexible tactics. 

 

I'm not saying it's perfect off the field, but I'm not sure it's so bad that it's going to sink us. We still have a decent squad for this league and with a few tweaks and a good manager, we will be fine, and people might think much less about having a go at the Chairman for changing the badge for example. We only have players like FF and Hooper because of the Chairman, so I'm not sure it's time to throw him under the bus just yet.

[GoldGigsChris]

7 minutes ago, qantas said:

 

I'm not an Aussie, I'm Sheffield born & bred.

 

So to be an effective CEO for us you have to be connected to Sheffield?

 

At this point in time, we need some connection between the fans and club.

 

Surely an English/local CEO would help better with that than someone who doesn't get how prices affect Sheffielders or understand our history or our stripes.

 

Maybe you'd be happier with someone who doesn't understand and changes our kit to the red and white stripes.

 

[@owlstalk]

 

We need an immediate upturn in results too or it's curtains

[Davetherave]

2 hours ago, FreshOwl said:

Surely part of the buck lies with Mandaric? May be an unpopular opinion but if he knew Chansiri had no football knowledge etc did he really think the sale was in the best interests of the club? 

 

He just wanted to turn over 30 million profit ... he paid nothing for the club.

Coop Bank were the losers.

A swan song in his 70s ... do you think he gives a monkeys about us now?

Almost ratifying the Brexits with that kind of wheeler dealing.

But we all took it in didn’t we.

[Whatahoot]

4 minutes ago, @owlstalk said:

Either way the fans of Wednesday have given Carlos and Mr Chansiri more time, patience and tolerance than any other chairman/manager combo in our history in my opinion

 

 

and money!

I think the passed couple of months has opened fans eyes to the realities of how our football club is/was being run.Mr C is out of his depth and should have appointed a CEO and a doF from day one, people with a depth of English football knowledge.He should have had a plan and not just scatter gunned his money around gambling. He should have had priorities in that plan, that put the football team quality and a structure that allowed more room for player development and youth, giving hunger and a better balance.

He still is floundering around with his latest appointment, unless he is preparing for withdrawal.

He can claim all he wants about the millions he has invested into the club (he stands to gain the most) but he should not forget that he called for fan support at high prices and he got it, the fans have invested a small fortune too. He has had his say on where  our money has been spent and tonight it looks like it got wasted.Just like the passed three years have been.

[matt_johno43]

I agree with nearly all that was said, the art of good business is being a good middleman (layer cake quote I know), appointing the right people for the right position. 

I think the initial appointment of "the committee" was correct and very wise on DC part and I wouldn't be surprised 1 bit if it was a suggestion  of Mandaric. That went reportedly because of the previous manager if you beleive rumours and posts on this site and In the press but that's by the by. What we are left with at present the way I see it is somewhere in the middle stage of Mandarics reign as chairmen, off the field a half finished club. We have essentially regressed and unravaled in the space of 18 months.

Currently working for sheffield wednesday and involved in the big decision  making process, who has any real tangible success in running a football club as a succesful commerical business at Hillsborough? From my understanding and it is a very limited understanding granted, none. 

We need to get the house in order and fast results will appease fans for the most part and whilst that may be seen as papering over the cracks that is what we all go for to watch the football and support our club. 

I know nothing about running a successful business but I do know that the most successful businesses have a hierarchy, people who all pull in the same direction  to begin with and are all on the same page, but all have their own assigned roles. Perhaps I am missing something but surely there should be more seats at the table than just Joe Palmer, Chansiri, (insert representative from doyen) and our new CEO. 

Lee Bullen seemed to be speaking in his post match interview today about just how much the chairmen has done, like he has been manning the ship single handedly. My point is when he took over and made the appointments in the summer of 2015 it was set up to be the exact opposite of what we currently have. It just feels like on this side of things at least we are completely back to square one whilst being 150 million worse off, what an expensive mistake to make. 

This all being said if today's appointment is the start of something that works then I am all for it, at present my view is that of another baffling appointment in an area of great importance for the club. I really hope she and DC prove me and a lot of other fans wrong. 

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by matt_johno43

[Big Ron's Sovereign]

I’m wondering why nowt was said whilst the old guard stood by watching us die

[Jennz]

5 minutes ago, GoldGigsChris said:

 

At this point in time, we need some connection between the fans and club.

 

Surely an English/local CEO would help better with that than someone who doesn't get how prices affect Sheffielders or understand our history or our stripes.

 

Maybe you'd be happier with someone who doesn't understand and changes our kit to the red and white stripes.

 

 

I'll ignore the last bit as it's just stupid but yes I'd agree that a connection with fans & club is always preferable....being local & English isn't a guarantee that would happen though, you need to be qualified in doing the job at hand, understanding local nuances just takes common sense & a bit of history searching....or reading Owlstalk, which all our execs do according to some.

[Taximark]

44 minutes ago, qantas said:

@ Taximark

 

Re your comment 'why aren't I on Bladesmad'....I haven't been on that site for months but, lets just say I was on there every day, what difference does it make?...it's a free country, I've given reasons for posting on there many times in response to those that don't get it, it seems to upset you, also using it as a first dig any time you reply to what I've posted.....disagree with me all you want & we'll talk/debate or whatever but this Bladesmad thing you've got about me is irrelevant to just about everything.

I made that comment because the first thing you did was to make an absolute shittycomment to a fellow wendesday fan yet over on bladesmad I seem to remember you were up all the pigsarseholes constantly.

Whats up have they banned you?

[Jennz]

12 minutes ago, Davetherave said:

 

He just wanted to turn over 30 million profit ... he paid nothing for the club.

Coop Bank were the losers.

A swan song in his 70s ... do you think he gives a monkeys about us now?

Almost ratifying the Brexits with that kind of wheeler dealing.

But we all took it in didn’t we.

 

You really think Mandy made 30 million+ profit?

[Davetherave]

1 minute ago, qantas said:

 

You really think Mandy made 30 million+ profit?

Yep

[steve simpson]

3 hours ago, KivoOwl said:

First thread in a long while, and I don't apologise for it being a long one. I stopped posting because I've got a very thin skin and get too easily hurt by criticism and abuse that came my way over the last couple of years - not posting has done me good but I am seriously worried for the club we all love so need to get this off my chest. If you think I'm being a smug attention-seeker, so be it. I don't think my opinion is worth more than anyone else's.

 

Not going to talk too much about the football as it's already been covered - in the summer of 2016 we all knew that we needed to sign 4 or 5 key players who would push us on to promotion - but in the 18 months since then all we've done is replace one set of back-up players with another set of back-up players - and at great expense. You need 2 good players for each position and we haven't, so an injury crisis has exposed our recruitment policy for the utter shambles it is. We're in a relegation battle, and we'll only stay up if the likes of Hutchinson, Hooper and Lee can retain their fitness.

 

But that's only scratching the surface of what is wrong at the club.

 

Since he took over as chairman, Dejphon Chansiri claims he has invested over £150m into the club, and I think his financial input has blinded many to the appalling decisions he has made. The first season seems to have been a case of 'if you throw enough money at something, you'll do alright'. Sadly, money alone isn't enough.

 

Alarm bells rang when he decided to hike ticket prices up to among the highest in the country. He claimed this was needed to lessen the impact of FFP worries, yet the extra £3m per year we are gaining from the changes (£150 extra for 20,000 season ticket holders - POTG revenue in freefall) has been a drop in the ocean compared to the overall transfer outlay. Still, he got more and more frustrated with questioning about it at fans forums - to the point where talking about ticket prices became a taboo subject. So now we just accept that the prices are what they are and you either pay them or you don't.

 

Next, he changed key components of the club's identity. The club badge was changed to one chose by the chairman, and then the striped shirts were ditched because he liked plain shirts, and then the squad numbers were changed on his say-so. But as long as we were doing alright on the pitch, it didn't matter. "How is our playing record affected by a change of badge? How is a full-back wearing number 9 detrimental to the cause? We've ditched stripes before so it's ok" Nobody dared ask "If these changes are so irrelevant, why make them in the first place". As long as we're winning, who cares about history and tradition?

 

Then his name was plastered on the North Stand, to replace the SWFC lettering. "It's obvious why he's done it - to alleviate FFP concerns" Does that really mean he had to put his own name on there? Did he have to put his own name on this year's anniversary season tickets alongside legends such as Crawshaw, Spiksley, Wilson, Waddle et al? How many Wednesdayites would think of doing that? I'll not talk about the scare stories we've all heard about how he conducts his business. Although I trust the different people that have told me worrying tales about Chansiri, I accept that without concrete evidence many will say it is at best rumour, and at worst some kind of agenda that I have, and I don't want to get into the sort of trouble that has befallen other Owlstalkers many years ago.

 

It is incredible, but the most worrying part of today, as a Wednesdayite, wasn't the utter humiliation we saw on the pitch.

 

Chansiri admitted on his first day that he knew little about football or football business, and his appointment of Adam Pearson and Glenn Roeder in advisory roles gave us optimism that he was willing to engage the services of people that could help. Pearson was gone with two weeks, Roeder soon after. They were never replaced, and we eventually began an association with Doyen Sports, who just happened to be the agent of the team manager, and Joe Palmer came in as Chief Operating Officer.

 

For the best part of 18 months we have needed someone to bridge the gap between chairman and manager, and someone to help improve our commercial arm. In the Wednesday family alone, we have Milan Mandaric, Lee Strafford and Howard Wilkinson among many who would jump at the chance to help the club. Brian Laws, Terry Burton, Chris Waddle, John Pearson, Alan Smith, Jon Newsome - all would give their right arm to give Chansiri help in areas where we need it. Then think about those without ties to Wednesday who could do just as adequate a job. The key attribute anyone needed to have was an understanding of the English game, and the relationship between club and supporter. Without that understanding (and Chansiri hasn't got it), you're up bobbar creek.

 

Instead, Chansiri has today appointed Katrien Meire as CEO - “I have said for some time that I would only appoint a CEO should the right person fit my specification to lead the structure of Sheffield Wednesday on a day to day basis."

Meire is one of the most despised figures at any Football League club, having been a key figure at Charlton Athletic during their catastrophic fall from grace. Quotes from Meire  -

 

• "I shouldn't say this but I don't care about the history of the club"
• ".................they do it with a football club and that's very weird because they feel a sense of ownership of a football club...."
• "fans don't see themselves as customers"
• "We have done no planning for a relegation"
• "Our ranking improved after each of the five managerial changes"

 

Personally, I think she'll put her foot in her mouth like she did at Charlton and end up being the new club scapegoat, just as Roeder (recruitment) and Palmer (kits) were. Chansiri will maintain his nice-guy reputation and escape the brunt of the criticism. Even I still think he's a good guy at heart, with good intentions, but being a nice guy didn't help Carlos Carvalhal, and it shouldn't mask the job Chansiri has done so far.

 

The list of baffling decisions and mistakes he has made has grown year on year, yet many still claim that he is learning on the job and that he'll learn from the experience. That might have been an acceptable response after six months, twelve months, even a couple of years. Claiming naivety after three years isn't good enough. I think he's been taken for a ride by many differing parties and hasn't learned from it one iota. Good businessman learn fast. Trawling the footballing world for a CEO and opting for Katrien Meire is the final straw for me - in the past I've been skeptical while holding hope he could change his ways - now I simply think he's unfit to run a football club, or any business, of this size. His next appointment will be our new manager - who believes he will make the right choice?

He has said himself that he has spent £150m on this football club - and what does he have to show for it? How can he look at his track record so far and think his tenure has been anything but an abject failure? He has had more than enough time, spent more than enough money, and made more than enough decisions to have made a positive impact on this club, but after all this time we are looking in far worse shape on the pitch than we were under Milan Mandaric and Stuart Gray, which is a damning indictment given our financial position back then.

 

It is time for him to go, and it won't be easy. He claims he had spent £150m, so any prospective buyer would have to pay at least that, which ain't gonna happen. And that's not the biggest problem, because I think Chansiri remains 100% committed to the club and will refuse to budge. I've no idea how we go about escaping the Chansiri era, but while we keep giving him a round of applause as he walks through the club shop, and while we keep our 'Thank You Chansiri' banners around the ground, we won't get anywhere.

He won't be appointing a new manager. He will be appointing a coach. The difference is the new man will not be in control of who's out, who's in. Carlos never was and nothing will change. It's a one man dictator with some very bad advisors.

[Davetherave]

12 minutes ago, matt_johno43 said:

I agree with nearly all that was said, the art of good business is being a good middleman (layer cake quote I know), appointing the right people for the right position. 

I think the initial appointment of "the committee" was correct and very wise on DC part and I wouldn't be surprised 1 bit if it was a suggestion  of Mandaric. That went reportedly because of the previous manager if you beleive rumours and posts on this site and In the press but that's by the by. What we are left with at present the way I see it is somewhere in the middle stage of Mandarics reign as chairmen, off the field a half finished club. We have essentially regressed and unravaled in the space of 18 months.

Currently working for sheffield wednesday and involved in the big decision  making process, who has any real tangible success in running a football club as a succesful commerical business at Hillsborough? From my understanding and it is a very limited understanding granted, none. 

We need to get the house in order and fast results will appease fans for the most part and whilst that may be seen as papering over the cracks that is what we all go for to watch the football and support our club. 

I know nothing about running a successful business but I do know that the most successful businesses have a hierarchy, people who all pull in the same direction  to begin with and are all on the same page, but all have their own assigned roles. Perhaps I am missing something but surely there should be more seats at the table than just Joe Palmer, Chansiri, (insert representative from doyen) and our new CEO. 

Lee Bullen seemed to be speaking in his post match interview today about just how much the chairmen has done, like he has been manning the ship single handedly. My point is when he took over and made the appointments in the summer of 2015 it was set up to be the exact opposite of what we currently have. It just feels like on this side of things at least we are completely back to square one whilst being 150 million worse off, what an expensive mistake to make. 

This all being said if today's appointment is the start of something that works then I am all for it, at present my view is that of another baffling appointment in an area of great importance for the club. I really hope she and DC prove me and a lot of other fans wrong. 

 

 

Somto sum up Matt ... Shambles

[toppOwl]

3 hours ago, Shelley Owl said:

Whilst I agree with some of your points, I really do, there is no doubt that Chansiri wants to get to the Premier League as much as we do, although perhaps for different reasons. The key thing is that, as you say, he needs the right advisers alongside him, and on this I completely agree. This is where he has gone wrong, but with his naive approach and lack of experience in football, he is clearly influenced too much by those who have their own agenda, and easily impressed by those who just ‘talk the talk’. Early on this approach brought positive results, with some excellent recruitment under Roeder’s advice, but dear god the advice since has been abysmal. To think that this is our anniversary year, was the third of our three year plan and is the season after finishing fourth in a season we should have gone up, itmakes me feel sick, it really does

 

Decent words but there never was a "three year plan".

[nevthelodgemoorowl]

3 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

We aren't the only club it's happened to.

 

Forest, Blackburn, Charlton, Cardiff, Hull have all had similar issues under foreign ownership. It's not just a Wednesday problem, it's a problem with football. The craving and demand for success attracts such owners who simply don't have an understanding of football. They don't understand criticism, and they struggle to take it. 

 

I thought Chansiri might have been different, and I turned a blind eye to it these past 12 months because we were doing good on the pitch. It has all unraveled now. 

 

We sold our soul to the devil. We weren't the first and we sure as hell won't be the last.

If you really believe the clubs soul was sold to the Devil Sally I would run a check on who did the selling. The January window should give some clues.