Why so bitterly anti-Carlos NOW?

[Carbone]

7 minutes ago, Chriss said:

Showed what we were capable in the first season with Carlos. Arguably only Loovens has lost his pace in that time period and the rest are still reasonably in the game. We chucked £10 million at Rhodes, £5 million at reach, £3m on Hooper someone bounded a £2m loan for the Portugese dude and however much else for the rest (Joao, Forestieri, Abdi, Matias?) and include the wages in there. Sure theres quite a few transfers I'd missed, and I'd remind you we've sold er, not many.

 

What would a different manager do? I'd like to present Leon Clarke, the born again wonder striker currently tearing the championship a new one.

 

But the squad hasn’t improved since Carlos’ first season. Do you think he’s said to the chairman I don’t want anyone with pace or established championship centre backs? Rhodes was 8m and Carlos has said we haven’t spent as much on Reach as quoted either. Are you complaining about what we spent on Hooper?

 

You mention Leon Clarke, a journeyman striker who can’t stop scoring at the moment, which nobody predicted. Kind of proved my other point that really for some people, it’s just down to how well United are doing. Any other suggestions on what a new manager could do with our squad?

[Vic Flange]

I don't think it is suddenly now, a lot of supporters including me wanted him gone after the Huddersfield debacle, and some before that.

I just think it is gradually building each week now so that even fans of Carlos are starting to turn against him. And after each none performance like last night and Saturday it just grows ever louder. I fear it is all going to end very acrimoniously. 

Another poor performance at the next home match and I think the crowd will really let him have it.

We should have been waving him off at the end of last season with the thanks he deserved but now he will eventually go far too late and with the fans pushing him out of the door. 

[Dutch McLovin]

1 hour ago, Matt_1 said:

I disagree we have been this poor for 17 months. 

 

We were playing poorly in the run in at the end of last season but this season has been a total bobbar show.

 

The animosity comes now because we are in a critical position. It's only now that it's looking like making the playoffs will be a miracle and performing in the playoffs is a whole different story.

 

After the Huddersfield match, there was optimism coming from various places. Who would we sign in the summer? What had we learnt from that season? We had improved from the 1st season under Carlos - we hoped that would continue. Things were pointing towards this season being a success. 

 

Now we are where we are, the pigs are where they are and there is absolutely nothing that is suggesting this will change.

 

More and more people have reached the tipping point.

We have been playing like this for 17 months but we were winning somehow. We also had the special FF playing who basically played his own way regardless of CC telling him to track back. 

 

Yes 5 unbeaten is decent but there is only one game we have played well and the others we should really have lost.

 

He has to go regardless but he won’t 

[Chriss]

22 minutes ago, Carbone said:

 

But the squad hasn’t improved since Carlos’ first season. Do you think he’s said to the chairman I don’t want anyone with pace or established championship centre backs? Rhodes was 8m and Carlos has said we haven’t spent as much on Reach as quoted either. Are you complaining about what we spent on Hooper?

 

You mention Leon Clarke, a journeyman striker who can’t stop scoring at the moment, which nobody predicted. Kind of proved my other point that really for some people, it’s just down to how well United are doing. Any other suggestions on what a new manager could do with our squad?

The squad hasn't improved, the squad should have improved with the signings that we've made. Isn't it clear from the signings we've made that we should be in a much better position? I'm actually not sure what your point is to be honest.

 

Why do you think they're doing so well, blind luck? Good coaching and management team? Would you expect any of the united squad to make it into ours?

[Carbone]

17 minutes ago, Chriss said:

The squad hasn't improved, the squad should have improved with the signings that we've made. Isn't it clear from the signings we've made that we should be in a much better position? I'm actually not sure what your point is to be honest.

 

Why do you think they're doing so well, blind luck? Good coaching and management team? Would you expect any of the united squad to make it into ours?

 

We haven’t spent as much as people think was my point, and just because you spend, it doesn’t mean you have a right to success. If you look at the 11 who lost to Hull at Wembley, who gets into that side that we’ve signed since? Reach and Rhodes at most and it’s debatable. So based on that, I don’t think we’ve done anything to really improve on CC’s first season. 

 

I think we have massively overachieved, personally, so yes I think the squad and the manager have done very well to finish 6th and 4th. If you don’t improve a squad though, it won’t get better over 2 years unless you have loads of young players, which we don’t. 

 

Point being, the issue is with the squad and the investment where it’s really needed. Maybe Carlos hasn’t been as vocal as he should have been to Chansiri. I don’t think any manager could take this set of players to the next level.

[dehowl]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

Why now?

 

Let me stress, I have wanted Carlos out since the start of 16/17. But why recently have so many fans become so bitterly anti-Carlos?

 

Last 5 matches - 9 points.

 

• If we had done that all season we would have 31-32 points - not our current 25.
• We would be 5th - not our current 11th

 

I completely understand fans having grown weary of Carlos and his style of play, but for the life of me I don't understand why the bitterness has reached boiling-point now. 

 

While this run continues, and while Carlos resists the urge to tinker (interestingly so many fans are posting they want to butcher the line-up and formation, let alone tinker), I do not understand the growing animosity.

 

Yes we were dull as dishwater v Bristol, and under-performed last night, but a five game unbeaten run is really decent.

 

 

 

 

Last 5 matches the points return is satisfactory but not fantastic. Our problem is that after another slow start we are playing catch up yet again.

[scilly owl]

1 hour ago, Mr Farrell said:

Lots of reasons.

 

His blaming anyone but himself.

 

His dog turd football reaching a new low.

 

Our world record lack of shots on target.

 

The Chairman asking the fans to stump up even more cash.

 

The top 2 ambitions now dead in the water.

 

The blunts pi**ing all over us.

 

The list is actually endless.

I’m even getting fed up of the quaint pidgeon Engish and continental winter jackets...used to like that stuff too.

[Holmowl]

1 hour ago, StudentOwl said:

Because the people like you (who apparently have wanted him gone for longer than 12 months) and the people like me (who've wanted him gone since Reading last season in March) have finally seen their patience exhausted. It's simply to do with us 'tolerating' it all for so long. That's half of it.

 

The other half I'd hazard is other fans who have been far more positive finally getting exhausted of everything. The kit, the prices, the football, Hirst's contract, Blades doing so well while we languish in mid-table (don't underestimate how much this is getting to people, even if they wouldn't dare admit it). It's all a perfect storm and the bad sides have been tolerated for long enough.

 

I haven't done it yet, but over the next couple of weeks I'll be making a thread comparing the number of goals we've scored with Carlos in charge vs Stuart Gray, who was sacked for basically being too negative and defensive. I did a similar thing at the start of the season. I know what it's going to show before I even complete the task... we'll have scored only very marginally fewer goals with Stu in charge vs. Carlos. That's with a strike force of Nuhiu, May, Maguire etc. That's beyond unacceptable when you compare personnel then vs personnel now. 

 

The fact as well is that we have players like David Jones earning (and I don't care what anyone says about this being pure speculation) probably £25k+ a week to do sweet FA. Matias £15k+. Emmanuelson £20k+. Venancio was £2m in loan fee to not even make the bench? 

The amount of money we have wasted is disgusting and if it were any other club other than Wednesday, the club I support, I would be pointing and laughing and saying we deserve to languish as a poor team for the next few years as penance for wasting two golden opportunities at promotion and throwing so much money up the wall on decisions you could see were crap at the time.

 

We have wasted a disgusting amount of resources to go nowhere fast, and there seems to be very little way in regards to accountability for that fact. 

I've put that in bold because I think it really is an important point. It's all been more of the same despite this fact. Well... the physio team got sacked at least. It's definitely their fault. 

 

I agree with quite a lot of this. 

 

But the description of David Jones is way off beam. Played a very important role in dragging us back into the play-offs last season, and our record with him playing is remarkably good.

 

Unfashionable and not very popular, but he is a very decent top end Championship player, let alone being a fabulous 3rd or 4th choice, which he is currently.

[uptheowls]

1 hour ago, Carbone said:

 

1. Not as much money has been spent as people make out on players 

2. Regardless of how much we’ve spent, we have no physicality, any real pace, or a goal scorer that can hit 20-25 goals. I believe our squad needs refreshing and we don’t have a chairman willing to provide the funds to do so, and it doesn’t matter who the manager is. The football is poor but the chairman has said no new players in January. What exactly would a different manager do with this squad that would really change things?

 

Hahahaha 

[bigdan2003]

I'm not anti Carlos....i'm anti current bobbar performance. 

 

I like Carlos, i want nothing more than for it to work out. But right now it's looking like the players are going through the motions. It's really poor.  

 

I think it's time for him to go though. We need a reaction. 

 

I don't see Chansiri having the appetite to sack him though. 

 

 

[StudentOwl]

35 minutes ago, Holmowl said:

 

I agree with quite a lot of this. 

 

But the description of David Jones is way off beam. Played a very important role in dragging us back into the play-offs last season, and our record with him playing is remarkably good.

 

Unfashionable and not very popular, but he is a very decent top end Championship player, let alone being a fabulous 3rd or 4th choice, which he is currently.

Do you think he'll be a very decent top end Championship player next year? He'll be 34. That in itself isn't a problem but he's never been the most mobile and it's only going to get further exacerbated by age. Wouldn't be an issue if he was Pirlo but Pirlo he is not. He's not really going to develop into an old Rolls Royce kind of player, more like an old Saab that you're fond of and looks a little classy but is really just aging into a bit of a heap

[Guest mkowl]

I would say Utd being above us in the table on a lower wage bill, much lower transfer outgoings and their get up and up at them style of play 

 

Plus the fact we know he can play a more open and dynamic style

[damianb1]

The pigs performances will have a big bearing as well. On Tuesday the lost to the odd goal in 9 but both sides got a standing ovation from all fans because they'd both gone out to try and win and entertained. In that context we're not even in the same league as the pigs and we've  missed 2 golden opportunities. Sickening!

[Stoop]

I really like CC, he did a cracking job in 15/16, plus he seems like a really genuinely decent bloke. I’m desperate for him to do well, but we are going backwards, and the football barring the odd game has been completely dire for the last 18 months 

[upperwinngardensowl]

2 hours ago, Carbone said:

 

But the squad hasn’t improved since Carlos’ first season. Do you think he’s said to the chairman I don’t want anyone with pace or established championship centre backs? Rhodes was 8m and Carlos has said we haven’t spent as much on Reach as quoted either. Are you complaining about what we spent on Hooper?

 

You mention Leon Clarke, a journeyman striker who can’t stop scoring at the moment, which nobody predicted. Kind of proved my other point that really for some people, it’s just down to how well United are doing. Any other suggestions on what a new manager could do with our squad?

So, we haven't got a very good squad then?

[fred mciver]

We have a mid -table squad - which is why we are mid -table approaching middle o' season.

 

And Carlos is also to blame for accepting his agents Doyen as our recruitment mob.

 

It's what you get buying off (200) videos. 

[Guest Jack the Hat]

The difference between this year and last is that we aren't having as much luck. We were nowhere near as good as the league position suggested last season but had the run of the green on lots of occasions . Throw into the mix the team is stale and the defence is having a mare at the minute it's totally understandable. I'd had enough after Burton at Hillsborough last season. I have been bending my mates ears about it since then. Had a few arguments but now I can't think of anyone who disagrees with me now. Boring football sticks out more when you aren't winning.

[OwlsfaninNorway]

Could it be this:
Carlos:
Try-Fail-Repeat-Try-Fail-Repeat-Try-Failing for the 3rd time and without much, if any imporvement at all.

I was sceptical at the unmerited coach to start with, but thought: let's see what he can do.

I wanted him out after that patheticly effortless game from us at Wembley, after a lucky scrape into the playoffs. He's not done owt at all afterwards to change my mind at all either. No progress. We clearly have lots of good players. A good manager/coach makes good players play well consistently.

[Johnny Concrete]

2 hours ago, Carbone said:

 

We haven’t spent as much as people think was my point, and just because you spend, it doesn’t mean you have a right to success. If you look at the 11 who lost to Hull at Wembley, who gets into that side that we’ve signed since? Reach and Rhodes at most and it’s debatable. So based on that, I don’t think we’ve done anything to really improve on CC’s first season. 

 

I think we have massively overachieved, personally, so yes I think the squad and the manager have done very well to finish 6th and 4th. If you don’t improve a squad though, it won’t get better over 2 years unless you have loads of young players, which we don’t. 

 

Point being, the issue is with the squad and the investment where it’s really needed. Maybe Carlos hasn’t been as vocal as he should have been to Chansiri. I don’t think any manager could take this set of players to the next level.

 

Sorry but Carlos is as just as responsible as Chansiri. He picks the team, and despite constant dire performances it's him who's still picking the same faces, same 4-4-2 formation. Any other manager may not get these players to the next level, but you can bet they'de atleast try making a few adjustments such as tactical approach and formations, not persist with something which is quite frankly enough to send a glass eye to sleep.

[james o connor]

Wanted him gone for about 14 months . Since then we have snores away to a play off embarrasment and have been truly woeful this year. The disgusting prices and rubbish spouted from Carlos just makes it worse