The thing is..

[Lord Snooty]

...he's not going anywhere.  At least until the end of the season.

He's had the vote of confidence,  and whilst as a rule that means the gaffer has got a fortnight or less to pack his bags. ..in the case of Chansiri we know it's different. We know the vote of confidence genuinely is a vote of confidence. He's not going anywhere.

 

It's frustrating , for sure. And when we know we're capable of performances like we put in at Villa (and to an extent at Derby all things considered)  We'll do it on occasion when teams match us up man for man....

I've been banging on about 3 and 5 man midfields since 'year one'.  I've bored you lot to tears with it no doubt, and with my daft drawings. 

But as I've had to accept we'll never change from what we do now I think we also have to accept we'll be doing this till May whatever happens and we'll be doing it with this coaching team.

 

When it's two teams lined up the same way our extra quality will shine through. Anything else and it's the throw of a coin.  A bit of luck. 

 

It happens up and down the land. In every division , in pubs up and down the land there will be fan talking to fan to tonight and they'll 90% of them be wanting to see more from their teams. Expecting more from their teams.  The difference is,  many of them haven't had very high promises made to them to fuel their expectations. 

 

But there's not much we can do. We can go or we can stay at home. 

We can cheer or we can sit in silence. I cling to the positives where I can. It's a bit in my nature.  A clean sheet.  And Bristol are high up the table. . Excellent scorers on the road. We didn't lose. We're actually not far away feom the play off spots.   We should have jad at least one penalty, and ues I know "we shouldnt rely on referees"  but it certainly hasn't helped. The pens turned down. The goals we've had chalked off.  And we've Fernando to come back...and Hutch. ..and Boyd...knows. ..maybe that'll be that little bit extra quality to get us through these tight games. Tuen a 0-0 into a 1-0.  

 

Eh dear.  I don't know. 

It's the Meh of it all really.  

A Meh that we'll have to like or lump. 

 

I wonder if we all really live in a fantasy world in our own heads though. Longing for the game like it used to be. When two teams would turn up and go toe to toe, the younger fans have a fantasy of football painted by the telly. Young fan and old desperate for this free flowing ding dong football that we have in our  minds.

 

But is it reality anywhere other than  the Super clubs? But even then you'd see this don't want to lose thing prevail.  The press always had their knobs out about Mourinho. But I once heard him described as Pulis with money and better players. Tactics and styles are cyclical of course. But I do wonder if we've entered an ice age. The do not lose age (certainly amongst clubs desperate for the Prem- or to stay in it). 

 

Ugh! 

 

Roll on Ipswich. 

 

[Mystic Neg]

Just our luck to have a Chairman where the vote of confidence is a vote of confidence.

 

I understand your well made points but what we are displaying at the moment is an approach to games that would have served us well when we were trying not to get relegated.

 

What we are seeing 90% of the time is a team that has no ideas, no pace, no creativity, no passion, no blood and guts etc etc. We are a meh team, if I wasn't an owl, the match against Sheffield Wednesday would be the one I would least look forward to. Not because I'd expect to lose but because it would bore me to tears.

 

You only have to look at the teams doing well in the league this season if you want to see attacking and confident football, even gung ho at times. That worked for us 2 years ago until we changed our approach in the play off final against Hull. We weren't found out, we decided to play like Hull did with men half Hull's size and strength. We are still tying that more than 50 games after it didn't work.

[legendaryswan]

Its a strong squad,with MORE then enough options,and yet its under utilised because the tactics never change

[Animis]

Its the deja vu that's frustrating - you see it unfolding in front of your eyes and there's little you can do about it.

 

 

[Mike Hunt]

We ain’t going up

we are predictable and boring 

we have been humiliated and beaten at home by our so called poor relations 

this is not going to end well until change happens 

 

I really like Carlos but his one dimensional boring football is not for me sorry 

[Mr. Tom]

While I still don't believe CC is the entire crux of the problem *in quite the way he's often made out to be* - clearly he's not coaching negativity as a genuine tactic FFS, he want us to score two or three every game just as much as we do - I do believe his manner is inadvertently affecting a very good  group of players by failing to get their blood up enough. Maybe that's a sackable offence in and of itself, I'm on the fence there TBH and I would prefer him to stay IF we can fix the drive issue, because our actual football - our ground game, our patterns - is stellar on the rare occasions we look truly up for it.

 

But to me it feels like there's a culture of 'after you' that seems to have settled among several (most?) of the playing staff that we need to fix, and fast. I don't doubt their desire to succeed, but I see less and less of that demented, Pavlovian, red mist, beyond-all-reason, *I MUST* GET ON THE END OF THIS semi-madness than leading professional sportspeople need to climb mountains.

 

If I've got one major qualm about CC's leadership it's that he clearly subscribes to a very measured, rational, 'if you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs' approach, and while I do value that in a head coach, I feel some of the players may be drinking a little deep from that particular jug of Kool Aid.

 

Barry Bannan isn't, Hutch never did, and IMO that's why their performance styles stand out a mile, even on an off-day when their end product is shoddy.

 

Some of the others look noticeably less deranged. I want them all to be slavering, swivel-eyed lunatics. Like us.

[SallyCinnamon]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Tom said:

While I still don't believe CC is the entire crux of the problem *in quite the way he's often made out to be* - clearly he's not coaching negativity as a genuine tactic FFS, he want us to score two or three every game just as much as we do - I do believe his manner is inadvertently affecting a very good  group of players by failing to get their blood up enough. Maybe that's a sackable offence in and of itself, I'm on the fence there TBH and I would prefer him to stay IF we can fix the drive issue, because our actual football - our ground game, our patterns - is stellar on the rare occasions we look truly up for it.

 

But to me it feels like there's a culture of 'after you' that seems to have settled among several (most?) of the playing staff that we need to fix, and fast. I don't doubt their desire to succeed, but I see less and less of that demented, Pavlovian, red mist, beyond-all-reason, *I MUST* GET ON THE END OF THIS semi-madness than leading professional sportspeople need to climb mountains.

 

If I've got one major qualm about CC's leadership it's that he clearly subscribes to a very measured, rational, 'if you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs' approach, and while I do value that in a head coach, I feel some of the players may be drinking a little deep from that particular jug of Kool Aid.

 

Barry Bannan isn't, Hutch never did, and IMO that's why their performance styles stand out a mile, even on an off-day when their end product is shoddy.

 

Some of the others look noticeably less deranged. I want them all to be slavering, swivel-eyed lunatics. Like us.

 

Most of them are comfortable mate. Hooper, Rhodes and Fletch all on good money and know they'll get a start one way or another. No pressure on them. We got rid of the one striker who was putting them on their toes and busting a gut every second he was on the pitch to earn a start. 

 

Wallace picks himself. No pressure in the wide areas. No young quick hungry wingers who want to take a man on pushing him for a shirt. Loovens and Lees are the go to centre back partnership they both know they've got a place in the side- it's their third season of it. The middle of the park seems to be the only place where there is competition at the moment.

 

Its all too comfortable. Nobody has a point to prove anymore. They just go through the motions and hope there quality shines through. 

[owlmanc]

37 minutes ago, hugeowl said:

We ain’t going up

we are predictable and boring 

we have been humiliated and beaten at home by our so called poor relations 

this is not going to end well until change happens 

 

I really like Carlos but his one dimensional boring football is not for me sorry 

Carlos is out of his depth. He seems a great guy but tactically isn't good enough. I know I bang on about his management record but for me it speaks for itself. Do I hate Carlos. No. Do I rate Carlos. No 

Edited November 19, 2017 by owlmanc

[owlmanc]

5 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Most of them are comfortable mate. Hooper, Rhodes and Fletch all on good money and know they'll get a start one way or another. No pressure on them. We got rid of the one striker who was putting them on their toes and busting a gut every second he was on the pitch to earn a start. 

 

Wallace picks himself. No pressure in the wide areas. No young quick hungry wingers who want to take a man on pushing him for a shirt. Loovens and Lees are the go to centre back partnership they both know they've got a place in the side- it's their third season of it. The middle of the park seems to be the only place where there is competition at the moment.

 

Its all too comfortable. Nobody has a point to prove anymore. They just go through the motions and hope there quality shines through. 

It's like history repeating from the late 90s

[Mr. Tom]

9 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Most of them are comfortable mate. Hooper, Rhodes and Fletch all on good money and know they'll get a start one way or another. No pressure on them. We got rid of the one striker who was putting them on their toes and busting a gut every second he was on the pitch to earn a start. 

 

Wallace picks himself. No pressure in the wide areas. No young quick hungry wingers who want to take a man on pushing him for a shirt. Loovens and Lees are the go to centre back partnership they both know they've got a place in the side- it's their third season of it. The middle of the park seems to be the only place where there is competition at the moment.

 

Its all too comfortable. Nobody has a point to prove anymore. They just go through the motions and hope there quality shines through. 

 

This is the feeling I keep getting, yep. I’m not slating the players, so much as I’m...I dunno, almost wishing we hadn’t signed so much ‘proven quality’. It’s the ‘proven’ part that’s the problem, isn’t it?

 

And then you look at Bannan - promising young ‘un early on who nearly threw it all away, and who constantly has to fight against his physical stature to be taken as seriously as he deserves. Hutch, a driven but eternally frustrated talent who almost had to retire due to injury, now getting an unlikely second chance. Lee, underrated his whole career because he’s a quiet lad who just turns up and gets the job done, now finally has a faint sniff of his just rewards for a decade of hard work and looks hungry for it. Lees, very similar story.

 

Cannot be a coincidence that they tend to be four of our best whenever they’re out there.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Mr. Tom

[Mr. Tom]

7 minutes ago, owlmanc said:

It's like history repeating from the late 90s

 

Grim. But hard to deny.

[SallyCinnamon]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Tom said:

 

This is the feeling I keep getting, yep. I’m not slating the players, so much as I’m...I dunno, almost wishing we hadn’t signed so much ‘proven quality’. It’s the ‘proven’ part that’s the problem, isn’t it?

 

And then you look at Bannan - promising young ‘un who nearly threw it all away, and who constantly has to fight against his physical stature to be taken as seriously as he deserves. Hutch, a driven but eternally frustrated talent who almost had to retire due to injury, now getting an unlikely second chance. Lee, underrated his whole career because he’s a quiet lad who just turns up and gets the job done, now finally has a faint sniff of his just rewards for a decade of hard work and looks hungry for it. Lees, very similar story.

 

Cannot be a coincidence that they tend to be four of our best whenever they’re out there.

 

Recruitment has been poor since Wembley. We've gone for players who have experience, have done it before but ultimately can't cut it at the top level so see Wednesday as an attractive alternative. Playing for a good Champ club on a decent wage. Abdi, Fletcher, Jones, Boyd, Pudil (good on loan not sure it was right to sign him permanent). They're old, lost that bit of pace and are prone to an injury. Should have signed younger hungry players in the Reach and Winnall mould- two we got right in my opinion but one is now scoring goals at a division rival.

 

Wallace and Loovens are way past it and signs of that were showing 2 years ago. Yet they still start. Reach is improving but is a player who has been messed about so much position wise I can't help but feel we've drained a lot of confidence from him. 

 

Anyway I'm rambling, just been a nonsensical approach on and off the pitch since Wembley in my view. Eurgh. 

[Mr. Tom]

12 minutes ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Recruitment has been poor since Wembley. We've gone for players who have experience, have done it before but ultimately can't cut it at the top level so see Wednesday as an attractive alternative. Playing for a good Champ club on a decent wage. Abdi, Fletcher, Jones, Boyd, Pudil (good on loan not sure it was right to sign him permanent). They're old, lost that bit of pace and are prone to an injury. Should have signed younger hungry players in the Reach and Winnall mould- two we got right in my opinion but one is now scoring goals at a division rival.

 

Wallace and Loovens are way past it and signs of that were showing 2 years ago. Yet they still start. Reach is improving but is a player who has been messed about so much position wise I can't help but feel we've drained a lot of confidence from him. 

 

Anyway I'm rambling, just been a nonsensical approach on and off the pitch since Wembley in my view. Eurgh. 

 

Reach seems to be building confidence but yeah it was awful to watch him being used like expanding foam in a side full of holes while he ‘earned his (stripeless) stripes’. Think he’ll kick on and be important to us. Wallace is a tricky one, arguably our most attack-minded non-striker and good for six big goals a season but goes missing for weeks in between. Loovens I’d ideally like to see marshalling from the sidelines rather than CB, but we look decapitated without him in the back line.

 

Urghhhhhhh my brain hurts. UTO.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Mr. Tom

[WatfordOwl]

There's never anything more uncertain in life than Sheffield Wednesday that's for sure.

 

I'm puzzled as to how we're hanging on to the coat tails of 6th spot at present, given how little we've applied ourselves in a number of games this season.

 

I don't know how much longer we can keep approaching games where we are worrying more about what the opposition can do to us than playing on the front foot to utilise what we all believe is quality within the squad - are we saying the players aren't capable of doing so or just that everyone has hit such a level of comfort that nobody really wants to go the extra mile week in week out?

 

That is the thing which niggles me the most - the comfort levels and lack of challenging anything within the club both on and off the pitch in order to improve on what we have.

 

Complacency is a disease that once set in takes an age to eradicate and generally requires a revolution before it can be.

 

The cherry on the cake is having a manager that keeps on repeating the rhetoric about being promoted this season when the vast majority of us just cannot see it.

[Athelwulf]

3 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

...he's not going anywhere.  At least until the end of the season.

He's had the vote of confidence,  and whilst as a rule that means the gaffer has got a fortnight or less to pack his bags. ..in the case of Chansiri we know it's different. We know the vote of confidence genuinely is a vote of confidence. He's not going anywhere.

 

It's frustrating , for sure. And when we know we're capable of performances like we put in at Villa (and to an extent at Derby all things considered)  We'll do it on occasion when teams match us up man for man....

I've been banging on about 3 and 5 man midfields since 'year one'.  I've bored you lot to tears with it no doubt, and with my daft drawings. 

But as I've had to accept we'll never change from what we do now I think we also have to accept we'll be doing this till May whatever happens and we'll be doing it with this coaching team.

 

When it's two teams lined up the same way our extra quality will shine through. Anything else and it's the throw of a coin.  A bit of luck. 

 

It happens up and down the land. In every division , in pubs up and down the land there will be fan talking to fan to tonight and they'll 90% of them be wanting to see more from their teams. Expecting more from their teams.  The difference is,  many of them haven't had very high promises made to them to fuel their expectations. 

 

But there's not much we can do. We can go or we can stay at home. 

We can cheer or we can sit in silence. I cling to the positives where I can. It's a bit in my nature.  A clean sheet.  And Bristol are high up the table. . Excellent scorers on the road. We didn't lose. We're actually not far away feom the play off spots.   We should have jad at least one penalty, and ues I know "we shouldnt rely on referees"  but it certainly hasn't helped. The pens turned down. The goals we've had chalked off.  And we've Fernando to come back...and Hutch. ..and Boyd...knows. ..maybe that'll be that little bit extra quality to get us through these tight games. Tuen a 0-0 into a 1-0.  

 

Eh dear.  I don't know. 

It's the Meh of it all really.  

A Meh that we'll have to like or lump. 

 

I wonder if we all really live in a fantasy world in our own heads though. Longing for the game like it used to be. When two teams would turn up and go toe to toe, the younger fans have a fantasy of football painted by the telly. Young fan and old desperate for this free flowing ding dong football that we have in our  minds.

 

But is it reality anywhere other than  the Super clubs? But even then you'd see this don't want to lose thing prevail.  The press always had their knobs out about Mourinho. But I once heard him described as Pulis with money and better players. Tactics and styles are cyclical of course. But I do wonder if we've entered an ice age. The do not lose age (certainly amongst clubs desperate for the Prem- or to stay in it). 

 

Ugh! 

 

Roll on Ipswich. 

 

 

Yes... I think you'll find that there's nothing like falling gate receipts to concentrate a chairman's mind, Milud. Chuntering yet attending is pointless. As the saying goes, if you pay on the day, stay away.

[Holmowl]

6 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Most of them are comfortable mate. Hooper, Rhodes and Fletch all on good money and know they'll get a start one way or another. No pressure on them. We got rid of the one striker who was putting them on their toes and busting a gut every second he was on the pitch to earn a start. 

 

Wallace picks himself. No pressure in the wide areas. No young quick hungry wingers who want to take a man on pushing him for a shirt. Loovens and Lees are the go to centre back partnership they both know they've got a place in the side- it's their third season of it. The middle of the park seems to be the only place where there is competition at the moment.

 

Its all too comfortable. Nobody has a point to prove anymore. They just go through the motions and hope there quality shines through. 

 

Except that...

 

Hooper, Fletch and Rhodes give their all.

 

Wallace was one of our better players yesterday, and often is.

 

Loovens and Lees are our best defensive duo by a thousand country miles.

 

Im 100% convinced it's not the players. It's the instruction, the negativity, the caution, the rigidity.

[Holmowl]

6 hours ago, Mr. Tom said:

While I still don't believe CC is the entire crux of the problem *in quite the way he's often made out to be* - clearly he's not coaching negativity as a genuine tactic FFS, he want us to score two or three every game just as much as we do - I do believe his manner is inadvertently affecting a very good  group of players by failing to get their blood up enough. Maybe that's a sackable offence in and of itself, I'm on the fence there TBH and I would prefer him to stay IF we can fix the drive issue, because our actual football - our ground game, our patterns - is stellar on the rare occasions we look truly up for it.

 

But to me it feels like there's a culture of 'after you' that seems to have settled among several (most?) of the playing staff that we need to fix, and fast. I don't doubt their desire to succeed, but I see less and less of that demented, Pavlovian, red mist, beyond-all-reason, *I MUST* GET ON THE END OF THIS semi-madness than leading professional sportspeople need to climb mountains.

 

If I've got one major qualm about CC's leadership it's that he clearly subscribes to a very measured, rational, 'if you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs' approach, and while I do value that in a head coach, I feel some of the players may be drinking a little deep from that particular jug of Kool Aid.

 

Barry Bannan isn't, Hutch never did, and IMO that's why their performance styles stand out a mile, even on an off-day when their end product is shoddy.

 

Some of the others look noticeably less deranged. I want them all to be slavering, swivel-eyed lunatics. Like us.

 

"Pavlovian red mist" - like that.

 

I agree with your first paragraph. I suspect that unwittingly he does infect the players with caution rather than confidence. 

 

As an example, and I know now the subject of his press conferences has been done to death, but the way he bulls up Bolton, Birmingham, Burton etc etc feels like the air being slowly let out of a paper bag.

[HOOTIE AND THE SHIT TU]

7 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

...he's not going anywhere.  At least until the end of the season.

He's had the vote of confidence,  and whilst as a rule that means the gaffer has got a fortnight or less to pack his bags. ..in the case of Chansiri we know it's different. We know the vote of confidence genuinely is a vote of confidence. He's not going anywhere.

 

It's frustrating , for sure. And when we know we're capable of performances like we put in at Villa (and to an extent at Derby all things considered)  We'll do it on occasion when teams match us up man for man....

I've been banging on about 3 and 5 man midfields since 'year one'.  I've bored you lot to tears with it no doubt, and with my daft drawings. 

But as I've had to accept we'll never change from what we do now I think we also have to accept we'll be doing this till May whatever happens and we'll be doing it with this coaching team.

 

When it's two teams lined up the same way our extra quality will shine through. Anything else and it's the throw of a coin.  A bit of luck. 

 

It happens up and down the land. In every division , in pubs up and down the land there will be fan talking to fan to tonight and they'll 90% of them be wanting to see more from their teams. Expecting more from their teams.  The difference is,  many of them haven't had very high promises made to them to fuel their expectations. 

 

But there's not much we can do. We can go or we can stay at home. 

We can cheer or we can sit in silence. I cling to the positives where I can. It's a bit in my nature.  A clean sheet.  And Bristol are high up the table. . Excellent scorers on the road. We didn't lose. We're actually not far away feom the play off spots.   We should have jad at least one penalty, and ues I know "we shouldnt rely on referees"  but it certainly hasn't helped. The pens turned down. The goals we've had chalked off.  And we've Fernando to come back...and Hutch. ..and Boyd...knows. ..maybe that'll be that little bit extra quality to get us through these tight games. Tuen a 0-0 into a 1-0.  

 

Eh dear.  I don't know. 

It's the Meh of it all really.  

A Meh that we'll have to like or lump. 

 

I wonder if we all really live in a fantasy world in our own heads though. Longing for the game like it used to be. When two teams would turn up and go toe to toe, the younger fans have a fantasy of football painted by the telly. Young fan and old desperate for this free flowing ding dong football that we have in our  minds.

 

But is it reality anywhere other than  the Super clubs? But even then you'd see this don't want to lose thing prevail.  The press always had their knobs out about Mourinho. But I once heard him described as Pulis with money and better players. Tactics and styles are cyclical of course. But I do wonder if we've entered an ice age. The do not lose age (certainly amongst clubs desperate for the Prem- or to stay in it). 

 

Ugh! 

 

Roll on Ipswich. 

 

Love your posts mate, but what is this extra quality you speak of?

 

Last season’s performances were very underwhelming

 

Apart from a few inspired performances, Norwich at home, first half against Birmingham at home, both fixtures against Newcastle

 

This season we’re seeing a similar pattern, poor start, underwhelming performances, loses against the poorest sides in the division, and then an inspired performance away at Villa

 

In my opinion, the dire performances and loses to the poor teams is the norm

 

The outstanding games I’ve mentioned above, they are the extraordinary

 

We better get used to it

 

Under this manager we will get 6 or 7 mundane performances, scraping the odd win here and there, followed by a loss or two against a Bolton, and a surprise performance against a Villa

 

Like you say Carlos is going nowhere

 

Hopefully, the January transfer window will see us bring in upgrades on Wallace and Hunt, but I wouldn’t hold my breath

 

Wallace has been a good player for us, but we knew after the play off final we needed a younger version

 

Hunt gets in great positions but he hasn’t got the quality to pick a decent cross out

 

We lack that bit of quality that makes all the difference in turning run of the mill mid table teams, which we currently are, into contenders

[BIG D]

6 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

Most of them are comfortable mate. Hooper, Rhodes and Fletch all on good money and know they'll get a start one way or another. No pressure on them. We got rid of the one striker who was putting them on their toes and busting a gut every second he was on the pitch to earn a start. 

 

Wallace picks himself. No pressure in the wide areas. No young quick hungry wingers who want to take a man on pushing him for a shirt. Loovens and Lees are the go to centre back partnership they both know they've got a place in the side- it's their third season of it. The middle of the park seems to be the only place where there is competition at the moment.

 

Its all too comfortable. Nobody has a point to prove anymore. They just go through the motions and hope there quality shines through. 

 

Winnall was back to ‘busting a gut’ as an unused sub again yesterday.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

1 hour ago, HOOTIE AND THE bobbar TU said:

Love your posts mate, but what is this extra quality you speak of?

 

Last season’s performances were very underwhelming

 

Apart from a few inspired performances, Norwich at home, first half against Birmingham at home, both fixtures against Newcastle

 

This season we’re seeing a similar pattern, poor start, underwhelming performances, loses against the poorest sides in the division, and then an inspired performance away at Villa

 

In my opinion, the dire performances and loses to the poor teams is the norm

 

The outstanding games I’ve mentioned above, they are the extraordinary

 

We better get used to it

 

Under this manager we will get 6 or 7 mundane performances, scraping the odd win here and there, followed by a loss or two against a Bolton, and a surprise performance against a Villa

 

Like you say Carlos is going nowhere

 

Hopefully, the January transfer window will see us bring in upgrades on Wallace and Hunt, but I wouldn’t hold my breath

 

Wallace has been a good player for us, but we knew after the play off final we needed a younger version

 

Hunt gets in great positions but he hasn’t got the quality to pick a decent cross out

 

We lack that bit of quality that makes all the difference in turning run of the mill mid table teams, which we currently are, into contenders

0-0 it was then