Barry Bannan too deep

[dkenyonqfc2]

8 hours ago, Bramhall Owl said:

And when he did, Lee dropped in to cover him so we are actually in a weaker position going forward as even fewer midfielders up the pitch.

It was bizarre yesterday, not only did Bannan play too deep but so did Butterfield. There were so many times when both BB and JB were level with Lees and Loovens completely nullifying any threat posed by the full backs being up the pitch as we didn't have the numbers going forward/in the box. So often the front 2 were isolated, Rhodes even more when Hooper dropped off looking for space. Yesterday was so dull and uninteresting

they're being told to stay back more at least I know Lee was before he was injured, and a couple of days ago I said you'll have to work on getting your place back and he said i'll have to see he (cc) doesn't want attacking midfielders anymore

[Holmowl]

On 18/11/2017 at 22:22, oldishowl said:

 

I agree and you only have to look at the formation and type of team we are playing to know how it is going to pan out.

 

So explain to me, what does Carlos see/hope/expect is going to happen. How does he think we will play well and win in this type of scenario.

 

A good example is Leeds. Last year they were powerful and athletic in midfield and beat us easily, this year they were a footballing team who stood off us so a different outcome 

 

From this point last season Carlos switched approach to EXACTLY the current formation. 57 points from the next 28 games.

 

Our problem this season is that he didn't start playing the current formation earlier. 

[Holmowl]

14 hours ago, Bramhall Owl said:

And when he did, Lee dropped in to cover him so we are actually in a weaker position going forward as even fewer midfielders up the pitch.

It was bizarre yesterday, not only did Bannan play too deep but so did Butterfield. There were so many times when both BB and JB were level with Lees and Loovens completely nullifying any threat posed by the full backs being up the pitch as we didn't have the numbers going forward/in the box. So often the front 2 were isolated, Rhodes even more when Hooper dropped off looking for space. Yesterday was so dull and uninteresting

 

Yes the positions of Bannan and Butterfield were really strange on Saturday. Couldn't believe how deep they started. 

[oldishowl]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

 

From this point last season Carlos switched approach to EXACTLY the current formation. 57 points from the next 28 games.

 

Our problem this season is that he didn't start playing the current formation earlier. 

 

You mean the formation that went so well on Saturday 

[IstillhateSteveBould]

1 hour ago, Holmowl said:

 

From this point last season Carlos switched approach to EXACTLY the current formation. 57 points from the next 28 games.

 

Our problem this season is that he didn't start playing the current formation earlier. 

 

Why do you make things up?

[Holmowl]

42 minutes ago, oldishowl said:

 

You mean the formation that went so well on Saturday 

 

Yes.

 

The same formation that beat Millwall and Villa.

[oldishowl]

3 hours ago, Holmowl said:

 

Yes.

 

The same formation that beat Millwall and Villa.

 

Last time I am going to post it. I really can't be bothered.

 

Sometimes any formation will work. We are wasting too many of our resources trying to fit them into an archaic system which doesn't suit them. 

 

Or in the case of many of the players we have signed over the last few years not even trying to fit them in because it is all too complicated and they have not been given a chance

 

We are still stuck with a formation that keeps failing against certain types of teams, is so easy to play against and the outcome so predictable 

[33]

How is it same formation when BB plays further up the field against M and V yet goes back to standard Carlos and plays almost as a third CB against Bristol.

 

Same players, different formation.

[oldishowl]

4 hours ago, 33 said:

How is it same formation when BB plays further up the field against M and V yet goes back to standard Carlos and plays almost as a third CB against Bristol.

 

Same players, different formation.

 

Bannan started high up the pitch.

The idea was to play the same as Villa.

 

However unlike Villa who played 442, City played 3 in centre midfield, all athletic players.

Bannan dropped deeper of his own accord because he couldn't win any ball higher up the pitch, he was pushed back because we were outnumbered and he is not physical enough 

[Shetland Owl]

Could try Fred at CH with Lees, Butterfield should play in front of the back 4 with Bannan forward and Matias and Reach putting crosses in

[Dutch McLovin]

Barry Bannan is not a Central midfielder he is a attacking midfielder and should be employed there to get the best out of him.

 

As it is he can’t get the ball playing too deep in CM never mind where he should due to the dire drivel Carlos serves up that he passes off as tactics ! 

 

I called for him to be dropped last year for this exact thing which wasn’t all his fault but he did lack form. This year he is in form but still having to do this quarterback role just to get the ball. 

 

So in all its carlos tactics !

[Guest Copthorneowl]

We have two central defenders who play identical games they also consistently avoid/are fearful of playing forward passes through to midfielders or strikers or carry the ball out themselves. Just look how Flint moves it forward or takes it himself.

 

Lees did do that twice on Saturday but that is rare.  Added to which they both almost exclusively play sideways to each other then to Westy or straight to Westy then the ball is booted to orbit and we lose possession. And this is done slowly while the opposition get organised.

 

Bannan does what he has to most of the ttime which is drop back to get the ball off them because they are not feeding him...in short he has little option if he wants more of the ball, invariably playing by this route he is marked and cannot really get near enough to our front men. It simple and it just won't be successful.

 

While ever Lees and Loovens (who play identical styles) play together this will not change. Too many fellow owls think a clean sheet is everything I readily acknowledge Loovens is a better defender than Van Acken but also believe we have to take the risk on VA if we want to be offensive, also believe we should play Pudil instead of Fox to give the defence extra cover.

[Hack-Abusi]

in order for Bannan to be at his most effective, driving the team on and short, intricate passing, he needs to play behind the strikers .. in that area between the strikers and midfield ..

 

he's not suited to being an out and out central midfielder. He wants to be involved and doesn't have the patience to wait for the ball to be played to him so drops deep to collect the ball. Unfortunately that means he's out of position as he's too deep.

 

He's not a physical player son' won't be able to rough it with the big boys and he lacks the height to win the flick ons .. he needs a combative midfielder to screen the back four and spread the ball out wide and to his feet ..

 

Butterfield did it well against Villa but not against Bristol City. We were a bit overrun in the middle and didn't make use of the ball enough. Again, i'd like to see Van Aken and Loovens together at the back, Loovens (who is FAR from finished or being the problem that some posters make out) to provide the leadership and Van Aken to spread the ball about

 

 

 

[Fibonacci91]

On 18/11/2017 at 19:21, One De Bilde said:

Not a Bannan bashing thread as I rate the guy (but I also dont buy into the sometimes over the top adulation), but I think I understand football and I cannot get my head around this. 

 

Why when we have the ball in the middle third does he drop so deep to obtain it? On several occasions he slotted in alongside Lees and Loovens. When he is pretty much our only playmaker (Lee was on the bench) and we have no wingers, there are no options for him anyway and the only thing he can do is play a 5 yard pass to Lees or a "Hollywood" ball - which often doesn't come off.

 

If anyone can enlighten me please do because it frustrates me like flip! 

Why are we only playing small midfielders who have to do everything? Why not have an anchor man and allow BB and KL to do less and make what they do more effective.

[Fibonacci91]

20 hours ago, oldishowl said:

 

Bannan started high up the pitch.

The idea was to play the same as Villa.

 

However unlike Villa who played 442, City played 3 in centre midfield, all athletic players.

Bannan dropped deeper of his own accord because he couldn't win any ball higher up the pitch, he was pushed back because we were outnumbered and he is not physical enough 

Someone with some insight into the game of football!!!

[One De Bilde]

6 hours ago, Fibonacci91 said:

Why are we only playing small midfielders who have to do everything? Why not have an anchor man and allow BB and KL to do less and make what they do more effective.

Because that isn't the system we are playing....... Ergo why I asked the question.