Sheffield Wednesday fan banned for life for racism

[Pulsar]

7 minutes ago, optimisticowl said:

 

Stevie Wonder answer to a reporter who asked him if he ever wished that he hadn’t been born blind.

 

”Hey, it could’ve been much worse - I could have been born black”.

 

 

To some, myself included, that was a comical line from a musical genius.

To others, it was an unneccesary inflammatory statement.

 

 

This world!

[optimisticowl]

7 minutes ago, Pulsar said:

 

 

To some, myself included, that was a comical line from a musical genius.

To others, it was an unneccesary inflammatory statement.

 

 

This world!

 

I’m sure that Stevie’s sense of humour will survive, in spite of your concerns.

[Pulsar]

3 minutes ago, optimisticowl said:

 

I’m sure that Stevie’s sense of humour will survive, in spite of your concerns.

 

You misunderstand, it was the latter part i was concerned about, I applaud the former.

 

 

[optimisticowl]

2 minutes ago, Pulsar said:

 

You misunderstand, it was the latter part i was concerned about, I applaud the former.

 

 

 

The former was a question from a reporter, your point is ????

[Sonny]

24 minutes ago, Pulsar said:

 

 

To some, myself included, that was a comical line from a musical genius.

To others, it was an unneccesary inflammatory statement.

 

 

This world!

 

4 minutes ago, optimisticowl said:

 

The former was a question from a reporter, your point is ????

 

The former/latter part of the post I’ve quoted above.

[robowl4life]

29 minutes ago, Wednesday Fan said:

Don’t think you can in any way compare this buffoon to the Yorkshire Ripper!!! But I’ll definitely have a pint of what you’ve been drinking mate. Up the Owls

 

If you read it correctly you’d see I wasn’t comparing him to the Yorkshire Ripper. I think it’s you who needs to take the beer goggles off. 

[Lord Snooty]

 

Context isn't it. 

Words are words it's the people who use them and the way they use them.

 

My dear old Grandmother always referred to ' the coloured chap'. I tried to tell her that 'black' was widely accepted term. 

"But they aren't black. They are brown." she'd say. 

Which was hard to argue with on a visual level.

Still.... I'd point out that by the same measure.... we weren't exactly white either, if we were getting into the semantics of it. 

It was a debate that never ended.  She thought that the word Black itself sounded 'harsher' than 'coloured'. 

In the end I suggested that she ask the chap down the road which he would be more comfortable with. 

I've no idea if she did. I suspect not as she was set in her ways and genuinely thought there was nothing wrong with it.  

 

Ignorance we'd call. 

Though she never meant any offence and none was ever taken by the neighbour. 

She was raised in a different time.

And key was.... so was he.   He in his lifetime I suspect had been the victim of what I would call 'genuine racism'.  

And I think that is the key to the issue of anything that can cause offence. 

 

I do often send my man for a Chinky as Pulsar mentions in his post.  

Though it is in reference to the food of course, and not the people who make it. Ivy and Brian.  

I also send him out for an Indian. Even though I know for a fact that the owner and all his staff are Pakistani. 

 

Getting back to it.... 

The guilty party in this case. (The Wednesday fan)  

Though perhaps genuinely thick enough to have thought his song is more about the Blades....... knows full well that he is using the racial nicknames as a barometer of lowness... especially with the second line " a dirty smelly..."  which only emphasises that the racial word is being used in the negative...  and to that end....he is absolutely as guilty as they come. 

 

It's a song which catches two groups of people with one stone and those who sing it know that well enough. 

 

 

[Neal M]

16 hours ago, Watson said:

 

He'sbeen banned from by Wednesday from attending matches not by the courts.  So legally he can go to the games I would have thought.  It's a private matter between Wednesday and the fan in question.

 

Entering Hillsborough after being banned by the club could constitute trespass. Which since 1994 has also carried the possibility of criminal convictions in England & Wales (not just civil actions).

 

So you don’t need a ban from the courts to prosecute. If an individual who is banned by the club enters Hillsborough, and if the club has CCTV evidence of that fact, the club could pass that evidence to the police and criminal charges could be brought.

[Hack-Abusi]

[optimisticowl]

56 minutes ago, Neal M said:

 

Entering Hillsborough after being banned by the club could constitute trespass. Which since 1994 has also carried the possibility of criminal convictions in England & Wales (not just civil actions).

 

So you don’t need a ban from the courts to prosecute. If an individual who is banned by the club enters Hillsborough, and if the club has CCTV evidence of that fact, the club could pass that evidence to the police and criminal charges could be brought.

 

Are you quoting the USA laws? I ask because our next door neighbours spend more time on our property when we are on holiday than they do on their own. The police have refused to act by informing me that it is a civil matter, however they further said that if I were to as much as touch either of them if I found them on our property, that they would take great pleasure in placing me under arrest and charging me with assault.

[Neal M]

Just now, optimisticowl said:

 

Are you quoting the USA laws? I ask because our next door neighbours spend more time on our property when we are on holiday than they do on their own. The police have refused to act by informing me that it is a civil matter, however they further said that if I were to as much as touch either of them if I found them on our property, that they would take great pleasure in placing me under arrest and charging me with assault.

 

No - that's the law in England & Wales.  Trespass was given a path to criminal prosecutions by the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act of 1994.  That said, it's only a path - it's still primarily a civil issue.  If prosecuting authorities don't want to undertake a criminal prosecution, then you as an individual are out of luck.

 

But in the context of a football club banning a fan - and that fan subsequently flouting the ban - there's a a far greater likelihood that criminal charges might be brought.  It's not absolutely certain, but there's a very good chance. 

[Guest Kameron]

18 hours ago, Ryan the owl said:

People questioning how these bans get policed.

 

I'd have thought it would be similar to when England play away and banned lads have to hand their passports in, maybe the person has to report to the police station at the kick off time?

 

I'd have thought it's along them lines. 

 

It's not a police banning order, the application was rejected by the court.  He's free to attend any other stadium he chooses.  The guy who tw atted Kirkland doesn't do too bad getting in games. 

[Bassetts Allsorts]

I think the lifetime ban is more to do with his refusal to meet with the Safety Officer to explain his actions. This is standard procedure for anyone arrested at home or away games, as my mate unfortunately found out.

 

He got arrested at an away game and accused of slapping a steward around the back of the head. He met with the Safety Officer to explain his actions who then revoked his season ticket. It took 6 weeks for the case to go to court and for him to be found not guilty (six people were accused; CCTV proved it wasn't him).

 

Despite missing three home games and getting cleared of the charge he didn't get any compensation, apology or anything and he just accepted it while I was absolutely fuming with the way the club treated him. He then had to attend another meeting to get his season ticket back. 

[Costello 77]

2 hours ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

Context isn't it. 

Words are words it's the people who use them and the way they use them.

 

My dear old Grandmother always referred to ' the coloured chap'. I tried to tell her that 'black' was widely accepted term. 

"But they aren't black. They are brown." she'd say. 

Which was hard to argue with on a visual level.

Still.... I'd point out that by the same measure.... we weren't exactly white either, if we were getting into the semantics of it. 

It was a debate that never ended.  She thought that the word Black itself sounded 'harsher' than 'coloured'. 

In the end I suggested that she ask the chap down the road which he would be more comfortable with. 

I've no idea if she did. I suspect not as she was set in her ways and genuinely thought there was nothing wrong with it.  

 

Ignorance we'd call. 

Though she never meant any offence and none was ever taken by the neighbour. 

She was raised in a different time.

And key was.... so was he.   He in his lifetime I suspect had been the victim of what I would call 'genuine racism'.  

And I think that is the key to the issue of anything that can cause offence. 

 

I do often send my man for a Chinky as Pulsar mentions in his post.  

Though it is in reference to the food of course, and not the people who make it. Ivy and Brian.  

I also send him out for an Indian. Even though I know for a fact that the owner and all his staff are Pakistani. 

 

Getting back to it.... 

The guilty party in this case. (The Wednesday fan)  

Though perhaps genuinely thick enough to have thought his song is more about the Blades....... knows full well that he is using the racial nicknames as a barometer of lowness... especially with the second line " a dirty smelly..."  which only emphasises that the racial word is being used in the negative...  and to that end....he is absolutely as guilty as they come. 

 

It's a song which catches two groups of people with one stone and those who sing it know that well enough. 

 

 

Ivy and Brian.

[Lord Snooty]

10 minutes ago, Costello 77 said:

Ivy and Brian.

 

I suspect it's just their noms de voyage , but it makes life easier , so I'm all for it!

Edited November 14, 2017 by Lord Snooty

[Guest mkowl]

42 minutes ago, Bassett's Allsorts said:

I think the lifetime ban is more to do with his refusal to meet with the Safety Officer to explain his actions. This is standard procedure for anyone arrested at home or away games, as my mate unfortunately found out.

 

He got arrested at an away game and accused of slapping a steward around the back of the head. He met with the Safety Officer to explain his actions who then revoked his season ticket. It took 6 weeks for the case to go to court and for him to be found not guilty (six people were accused; CCTV proved it wasn't him).

 

Despite missing three home games and getting cleared of the charge he didn't get any compensation, apology or anything and he just accepted it while I was absolutely fuming with the way the club treated him. He then had to attend another meeting to get his season ticket back. 

So football fans are basically guilty until proven innocent 

[TommyCraig]

Why not just ban Stone Island wearers, have you ever met one that didn't need banning?

 

The ban is correct in this day and age, he should know better regardless of age. Was there only him chanting it? Find that hard to believe.

 

Can anyone remember the Man Utd disaster chant. That was nasty and cruel and the only one I've ever objected to inside the ground, early nineties. Worse in my opinion but probably wouldn't get arrested because I can't think of a law it would break.

[Lord Snooty]

1 minute ago, TommyCraig said:

 

Can anyone remember the Man Utd disaster chant. That was nasty and cruel and the only one I've ever objected to inside the ground, early nineties. Worse in my opinion but probably wouldn't get arrested because I can't think of a law it would break.

 

I remember talking with some younger supporters about that.  They swore blind that it was just the Dambusters thing that they had been doing all season long. 

When prompted some even said they had no knowledge of Munich.   Not sure how true that is. It's pretty famous I would have thought. 

Though it was pre internet and perhaps they didn't know much about another clubs history. 

Some of the older element definitely did know though.

 

Worse for me was some chanting at Bradford around around the same time.

Genuinely awful. Because there could be no misunderstanding , no crossing of wires. 

Disgusting. 

[TommyCraig]

3 minutes ago, Lord Snooty said:

 

I remember talking with some younger supporters about that.  They swore blind that it was just the Dambusters thing that they had been doing all season long. 

When prompted some even said they had no knowledge of Munich.   Not sure how true that is. It's pretty famous I would have thought. 

Though it was pre internet and perhaps they didn't know much about another clubs history. 

Some of the older element definitely did know though.

 

Worse for me was some chanting at Bradford around around the same time.

Genuinely awful. Because there could be no misunderstanding , no crossing of wires. 

Disgusting. 

Thankfully, I've not heard nothing of the kind for years. Never heard owt surrounding Bradford, thank god. Had to watch a video about it for a health and safety course, It'll stay with me forever.

[Davidioso]

14 minutes ago, TommyCraig said:

 

Can anyone remember the Man Utd disaster chant. That was nasty and cruel and the only one I've ever objected to inside the ground,

 

A favourite of Bolton Wanderers fans. A large group sang it continuously on the tram from city centre to ground a couple of years back.

 

Horrible, truly horrible that people can be so cruel.